Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Red Wing on August 06, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
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Koney is broken.
Justin Martyr is the second best hero in the game.
The best decks almost always have the best reserves.
Straight clay is bad.
Punisher is amazing but very few people were playing it.
Hypocrisy+Mayhem is the new first turn Mayhem.
Jay got screwed.
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My winners card is going to be "negate and discard all enhancements, regardless of protection. Cannot be interrupted or prevented." dual alignment, rainbow, 7/7, territory class. ;D
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Or knowing how much you like koney-
Anyone with an armor of God enhancement, fruit of the spirit enhancement, or children of light in their deck immediately loses. Regardless of anything, they just immediately lose. Can't be negated.
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Justin Martyr is the second best hero in the game.
Who would you say is the best hero?
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Justin Martyr is the second best hero in the game.
Who would you say is the best hero?
Children of Light, apparently...
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Koney is broken.
Justin Martyr is the second best hero in the game.
The best decks almost always have the best reserves.
Straight clay is bad.
Punisher is amazing but very few people were playing it.
Hypocrisy+Mayhem is the new first turn Mayhem.
Jay got screwed.
JD did warn everyone about koney.
What happened to Jay?
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Jay won his first six games and was the lone undefeated after six rounds*, but lost the final two rounds. Still a great job by him and he probably had the best deck/plan versus Coney decks as evidenced by his 2-1 record against them. Josh K also had a great tournament, but unfortunately his loss in the last round dropped him from being in first to outside the top 3.
*Correction--Josh K. was also undefeated after six rounds, but had a time-out win and a tie so was behind Jay in points.
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Justin Martyr is the second best hero in the game.
Who would you say is the best hero?
Children of Light, apparently...
Music Leader, Woman with Child and Every Tribe round out the top five for me.
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About time Auto was dethroned! Move over bacon!
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The power creep is real y'all.
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Auto probably isn't even the best hero in T2 anymore either! The Woman with Child probably takes that spot.
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Psh, the only two Type 2 games I lost were the games where I didn't have an AUtO the entire game... In Type 1 it was a similar story.
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Children was great and super fun to play. I'm pretty convinced everyone who armed themselves with answers to it simply whiffed their opportunity to take advantage of them.
Cards I saw 0 of:
Guiding Angel
Darius' Decree
CWD
RBD
GC
Stalks of Flax
Faith of Jacob
Nicolaitan's Teaching
Greeting
Faith of Samuel
etc
and I think I played against 1 Punisher Lost soul (Red Wing)
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Children was great and super fun to play. I'm pretty convinced everyone who armed themselves with answers to it simply whiffed their opportunity to take advantage of them.
Cards I saw 0 of:
Guiding Angel
Darius' Decree
CWD
RBD
GC
Stalks of Flax
Faith of Jacob
Nicolaitan's Teaching
Greeting
Faith of Samuel
etc
and I think I played against 1 Punisher Lost soul (Red Wing)
I was kinda hoping to play you just to see your reaction when I hand you a Gideon and Jair for your Children of Light and Peter. :P
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I agree there are a lot of cards that aren't necessarily hard counters but are obstacles that need to be dealt with by the kony player before they go off that I didn't see people running. I don't think the deck is at the point where it needs immediate drastic action taken against it but I do expect more soft counters and obstacles for its play style in next year's set.
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Children was great and super fun to play. I'm pretty convinced everyone who armed themselves with answers to it simply whiffed their opportunity to take advantage of them.
Cards I saw 0 of:
Guiding Angel
Darius' Decree
CWD
RBD
GC
Stalks of Flax
Faith of Jacob
Nicolaitan's Teaching
Greeting
Faith of Samuel
etc
and I think I played against 1 Punisher Lost soul (Red Wing)
I was playing a couple of these and the Punisher Soul =]
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I agree there are a lot of cards that aren't necessarily hard counters but are obstacles that need to be dealt with by the kony player before they go off that I didn't see people running. I don't think the deck is at the point where it needs immediate drastic action taken against it but I do expect more soft counters and obstacles for its play style in next year's set.
I think the game could use more punishment against decks that use multiple brigades on offense or defense but other than that I agree.
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Kony isn't bad for the game because of its power level but because it disposes with the battle phase after we just spent three sets getting it back.
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Children was great and super fun to play. I'm pretty convinced everyone who armed themselves with answers to it simply whiffed their opportunity to take advantage of them.
Cards I saw 0 of:
Guiding Angel
Darius' Decree
CWD
RBD
GC
Stalks of Flax
Faith of Jacob
Nicolaitan's Teaching
Greeting
Faith of Samuel
etc
and I think I played against 1 Punisher Lost soul (Red Wing)
In a world where 3 Woes exists, most counters do not. :P
Kony isn't bad for the game because of its power level but because it disposes with the battle phase after we just spent three sets getting it back.
I can't agree with this more. Not only does it make it a liability to block, thanks to EI and Christ's Triumph, but your offense likely won't be doing much against an almost non-existent/chump block defense. Denying the battle phase on both offense and defense? So great and super fun to play.
To another extent, the fact that it's capable of drawing out a deck of 50 cards in a turn or two with just about zero effort is absurd in my opinion. People thought throne was too strong because it could deck out quickly, but this does that and gives you an almost guaranteed attack every turn.
The main problem with the place cards is Joy. CBN protect your place enhancements from opponents and draw? No limit on place enhancements? Load up, block your opponent with doms and there's not much most decks can do.
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In a world where 3 Woes exists, most counters do not. :P
I may be able to answer most individual threat with Woes but I can't answer two or more of them at once.
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In a world where 3 Woes exists, most counters do not. :P
I may be able to answer most individual threat with Woes but I can't answer two or more of them at once.
I shouldn't have to run two or more of them at once, that's the whole point. Most decks have space for maybe 1-2 counters like RBD, CwD, or Golden Cherubim.
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As a top-level Redemption player who has been active for multiple competitive seasons, I will say my due about Kony/CoL decks.
If these decks are not dealt with in such a manner to remove them from competitive viability, I may well quit the game as a competitive player. After living through the heck that was the time of TGT's domination, I don't wish to do it ever again. Redemption as a game is excellent when player interaction is at a height. Children decks remove interaction to such an extent that it makes me not want to play Redemption if I know that I have to play against them.
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As a top-level Redemption player who has been active for multiple competitive seasons, I will say my due about Kony/CoL decks.
If these decks are not dealt with in such a manner to remove them from competitive viability, I may well quit the game as a competitive player. After living through the heck that was the time of TGT's domination, I don't wish to do it ever again. Redemption as a game is excellent when player interaction is at a height. Children decks remove interaction to such an extent that it makes me not want to play Redemption if I know that I have to play against them.
This was pretty much my thought process as well, especially after reading this:
I agree for the most part. I absolutely love playing the deck and the design of the card in that it encourages you to build your deck in a drastically different way than a normal deck and it is definitely more beatable that many people think and there are lots of annoying to deal with cards that very few people were running. The only downside is that it does force the opponent into a very abnormal playstyle and if it gets the right draws it just wins on turn 2 or 3 before the opponent can do anything. Also, Hypocrisy/Mayhem is one of the most unfun things to experience and this deck pulls it off with a bit higher consistency than I would like a deck to be able to do (6 out of my 8 T1 games).
Like what!? That's literally my most hated thing in the game, and this deck does it almost every game!? :o
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I'm sure the next set will have something to help mitigate Children. Or they could very well limit the number of Placed Enhancements.
Either way, the last few sets have proved that the meta changes with each set (or at least what the 'Top Tier' decks are). Which is great for growth in the game. I've played more card games than I can count on my hands and feet and that's one thing Redemption has been getting right lately. Is there power creep? Sure, but I'd take that over each set from here on out attempting to beat the exact same deck year after year and the game going stale.
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As a top-level Redemption player who has been active for multiple competitive seasons, I will say my due about Kony/CoL decks.
If these decks are not dealt with in such a manner to remove them from competitive viability, I may well quit the game as a competitive player. After living through the heck that was the time of TGT's domination, I don't wish to do it ever again. Redemption as a game is excellent when player interaction is at a height. Children decks remove interaction to such an extent that it makes me not want to play Redemption if I know that I have to play against them.
I quit T1 because of things like TGT and judges whenever they first were around and dominating. Children to me is the same. Between decks like those and a lack of diversity among the competitive meta, T1 just lost its appeal for me. That said T2 seems very balanced right now and open for many decks to thrive so I don't think it's a constructed format problem just a T1 problem.
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I believe MasterQ has mentioned this in the past but I think an adoption of the equal good/evil deckbuilding rule from T2 might be interesting for T1 :D
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As a top-level Redemption player who has been active for multiple competitive seasons, I will say my due about Kony/CoL decks.
If these decks are not dealt with in such a manner to remove them from competitive viability, I may well quit the game as a competitive player. After living through the heck that was the time of TGT's domination, I don't wish to do it ever again. Redemption as a game is excellent when player interaction is at a height. Children decks remove interaction to such an extent that it makes me not want to play Redemption if I know that I have to play against them.
I quit T1 because of things like TGT and judges whenever they first were around and dominating. Children to me is the same. Between decks like those and a lack of diversity among the competitive meta, T1 just lost its appeal for me. That said T2 seems very balanced right now and open for many decks to thrive so I don't think it's a constructed format problem just a T1 problem.
Yeah, until everyone starts running Mayhem/displeased philistines decks. Stop ruining the meta JD! ;D
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As a top-level Redemption player who has been active for multiple competitive seasons, I will say my due about Kony/CoL decks.
If these decks are not dealt with in such a manner to remove them from competitive viability, I may well quit the game as a competitive player. After living through the heck that was the time of TGT's domination, I don't wish to do it ever again. Redemption as a game is excellent when player interaction is at a height. Children decks remove interaction to such an extent that it makes me not want to play Redemption if I know that I have to play against them.
I quit T1 because of things like TGT and judges whenever they first were around and dominating. Children to me is the same. Between decks like those and a lack of diversity among the competitive meta, T1 just lost its appeal for me. That said T2 seems very balanced right now and open for many decks to thrive so I don't think it's a constructed format problem just a T1 problem.
I hear similar opinions expressed by T2 players fairly often. Although my T2 experience is extremely limited, I think it's an oversimplification at the very least. TGT and Judges were just as strong in T2 as T1. If you think Edict or He is Risen is OP just wait until x4 of them are dropped on you. It's also worth noting that some of the most broken combo decks in the history of the game (Sin in the Camp, ANB) were most viable in T2.
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coney is phenomenal and everyone who was running throne last year had every opportunity to run it this year. it just so happened that it won nationals not because it is invincible or the only winning strategy but because people came ill equipped to stop it. the land of redemption article posted july 13- i made sure it was public info for the sake of fun in the community.
is it even right or good to stop a child of light with the full armor of God and all of the fruits of the spirit? that is a beautiful thing thematically and in strategy. i know more ways than i can count with two hands on how to stop it and even have had epic battles against coney in my own play testing which i have sent to be posted exclusively in my land of redemption tournament report
i really hope everyone can begin to see how epic battles can exist in a coney meta, it's not like they don't. in fact, some of the most advanced strategists such as John Earley, Tyler Stevens, and Josiah Beers have already formulated decks which challenge coney to the fullest (see their national 1st and 2nd place decks from 2015) and these were more along the very decks i was testing against and expected to see, yet saw none of.
decks with site guard souls, gates of hell, charms, writs, herod's dungeon, image of the beast, mark of the beast, god of this world, priest of zeus, decree, guiding angel, nicolaitans teaching, hypocrisy.. 0 coliseum lions, 0 coliseum, 0 king's pomps, 0 cwd, 0 shame souls, maybe 2 punisher, i don't think i played against anyone playing hypocrisy. i probably should have just run mayhem instead of guardian. did anyone use woes on a single piece of armor or a single fruit that made a significant difference? i really only attribute my one loss to soul drought and deck building
all of that said i don't think this deck style is bad for the game and it only eliminates battle phases if you want it to(ie in your own deck building phase).
in 2015 we saw the hyper car of defensive decks and this year we saw the koenigsegg of aggro. quite beautiful to me. from complete darkness to complete light
at the end of the day i really want Hope to enable 1 thing more than any other(regardless of coney, because i was mostly rescuing with Peace anyway).. Eternal Inheritance/Christ's Triumph. this is the best thing in the game to me (and rightly should be) next to Son of God and The Second Coming. this game is a phenomenal ministry and i know of few things that could bring more people directly to Christ. on the other hand i know we want balance and game duration. that said, if you want to play a control style i suggest showing a similar kind of devotion as the coney build and John Earley's national 2015 deck. his deck is the forerunner to coney. it is the perfect storm of control and complete lock down. i believe these two decks show us the depths of control vs aggro styles currently within the Redemption meta.
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As a top-level Redemption player who has been active for multiple competitive seasons, I will say my due about Kony/CoL decks.
If these decks are not dealt with in such a manner to remove them from competitive viability, I may well quit the game as a competitive player. After living through the heck that was the time of TGT's domination, I don't wish to do it ever again. Redemption as a game is excellent when player interaction is at a height. Children decks remove interaction to such an extent that it makes me not want to play Redemption if I know that I have to play against them.
I quit T1 because of things like TGT and judges whenever they first were around and dominating. Children to me is the same. Between decks like those and a lack of diversity among the competitive meta, T1 just lost its appeal for me. That said T2 seems very balanced right now and open for many decks to thrive so I don't think it's a constructed format problem just a T1 problem.
I hear similar opinions expressed by T2 players fairly often. Although my T2 experience is extremely limited, I think it's an oversimplification at the very least. TGT and Judges were just as strong in T2 as T1. If you think Edict or He is Risen is OP just wait until x4 of them are dropped on you. It's also worth noting that some of the most broken combo decks in the history of the game (Sin in the Camp, ANB) were most viable in T2.
it could be just me but it feels like other themes can compete on equal footing due to the differences in deck building rules and playing to 7. Judges and TGT are still good in T2 but not so much better that the meta is defined by them. I guess a simple example is mono silver won T2 last year. Granted it was played by possibly the greatest T2 player around but no one saw it coming. Combo decks have been historically T2 but it seems like T2 has evolved past the days of those ruining games for players. That's my opinion though. It could just be my preference of playstyle. I mean I enjoy T2 multi more than most formats so maybe I'm just crazy.
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I believe MasterQ has mentioned this in the past but I think an adoption of the equal good/evil deckbuilding rule from T2 might be interesting for T1 :D
Absolutely not. The reason the CoL deck works running so few evil cards is because Children cycles all the placed enhancements. All the placed enhancements effectively reduce your deck size. If you don't count the cantrips, the actual deck is almost exactly split between good and evil. Decks like John's winning Greek deck that was almost all defensive cards and decks like mine and JD's winning CoL decks with almost all offensive cards are not problematic because they have an imbalance of card alignment, they are powerful because they are built around cards that nullify the inherent weaknesses in stacking your deck towards one side.
Adopting such a rule in Type 1 would doom deck diversity forever and every match would feel exactly the same; there would be very little room for creativity and deck innovation since the format would solve itself within a month of each set release.
This isn't to say the CoL isn't unhealthy for the game because it is, for all the reasons that have been stated before. However, I believe there are enough cards out there that are pretty easy to slot into normal decks that once people learn exactly how CoL functions and the points at which the deck is vulnerable it will cease to be a Tier 1 tournament deck. Regardless of whether the power level dips, however, it will remain much less interactive than other decks and I agree it is a problem that needs a solution. I definitely believe though that that solution is a few strong counters in the next set rather than something as drastic as deck building requirement changes.
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Let's also be honest here Coney was the underdog going in to nationals and basically everyone was counting on it to lose.
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The problem with Kony is not its power level but its disposal of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
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I believe MasterQ has mentioned this in the past but I think an adoption of the equal good/evil deckbuilding rule from T2 might be interesting for T1 :D
Adopting such a rule in Type 1 would doom deck diversity forever and every match would feel exactly the same; there would be very little room for creativity and deck innovation since the format would solve itself within a month of each set release.
The existence of T2 disproves this thesis. I would advocate for such a change. It allows Redemption to be played as it was meant to be played every single game.
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I believe MasterQ has mentioned this in the past but I think an adoption of the equal good/evil deckbuilding rule from T2 might be interesting for T1 :D
Adopting such a rule in Type 1 would doom deck diversity forever and every match would feel exactly the same; there would be very little room for creativity and deck innovation since the format would solve itself within a month of each set release.
The existence of T2 disproves this thesis. I would advocate for such a change. It allows Redemption to be played as it was meant to be played every single game.
T2 only lends itself to more diversity because of the larger deck size. If you want equal good and evil just play T2.
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I believe MasterQ has mentioned this in the past but I think an adoption of the equal good/evil deckbuilding rule from T2 might be interesting for T1 :D
I would be fine with this as it's own format in general.
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Let's also be honest here Coney was the underdog going in to nationals and basically everyone was counting on it to lose.
It shouldn't have surprised anyone either, you were on here talking about it and showing WAY before nationals.
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Let's also be honest here Coney was the underdog going in to nationals and basically everyone was counting on it to lose.
It shouldn't have surprised anyone either, you were on here talking about it and showing WAY before nationals.
The best part of this discussion is you played what you thought would win, and in many cases you probably weren't wrong. Anyone could complain about those things if you did ie "woman with child mini game" "throne mini game" "job mini game" there are a lot of ways to win I don't see each one as broken.
Many people were unprepared and didn't know what they wanted to play until right before deck check (myself included). As stated before if you want more battle phase run more battle extension. These cards have existed much longer than roj and historically work (Tyler Stevens 70 card and Josiah Beers 2015 are perfect examples)
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I believe MasterQ has mentioned this in the past but I think an adoption of the equal good/evil deckbuilding rule from T2 might be interesting for T1 :D
Adopting such a rule in Type 1 would doom deck diversity forever and every match would feel exactly the same; there would be very little room for creativity and deck innovation since the format would solve itself within a month of each set release.
The existence of T2 disproves this thesis. I would advocate for such a change. It allows Redemption to be played as it was meant to be played every single game.
Type 2's room for diversity lies in the ability to have 2, 3, or even 4 of most cards, in addition to the larger minimum deck size. Type 1's diversity is already slowly shrinking with the increasing amount of staples such as Ends of the Earth. If equal good and evil was imposed on Type 1 there would be so little room for deck building that it would be trivial to find the absolute best deck or two and the meta would become one of, if not the most stale Redemption has ever seen.
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Let's also be honest here Coney was the underdog going in to nationals and basically everyone was counting on it to lose.
It shouldn't have surprised anyone either, you were on here talking about it and showing WAY before nationals.
The best part of this discussion is you played what you thought would win, and in many cases you probably weren't wrong. Anyone could complain about those things if you did ie "woman with child mini game" "throne mini game" "job mini game" there are a lot of ways to win I don't see each one as broken.
Many people were unprepared and didn't know what they wanted to play until right before deck check (myself included). As stated before if you want more battle phase run more battle extension. These cards have existed much longer than roj and historically work (Tyler Stevens 70 card and Josiah Beers 2015 are perfect examples)
Battle extension cards like Gates, Madness and UN are useless against Kony
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woman with child and priests of Christ going straight for dominants or Ehud+dagger/Jephthah/holy grail/auto protected Gideon cbn Samuels edict to dominate their blocking options is practically synonymous to Coney except you have more ways to do those things without losing the game because you did :p
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woman with child and priests of Christ going straight for dominants or Ehud/Jephthah/holy grail to dominate their blocking options is practically synonymous to Coney except you have more ways to do those things without losing the game because you did :p
Those cards are definitely strong but they are not at all comparable to Kony.
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woman with child and priests of Christ going straight for dominants or Ehud/Jephthah/holy grail to dominate their blocking options is practically synonymous to Coney except you have more ways to do those things without losing the game because you did :p
Those cards are definitely strong but they are not at all comparable to Kony.
+1
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JD literally told everyone he was dominating people 5-0 in 2-3 turns. He then wrote an ENTIRE article on the deck for everyone to read. Then he shows up at nationals and CoL tales 1st and 2nd respectively and everyone is mad and complaining how bad CoL is for the game? JD gave his winning formula and said what his deck was and people still DID NOT counter. That is not CoL's fault at all. That is the field's fault. We all know Redemption will not ban a card unless absolutely needed and people not using counters is not a reason to ban a card. Especially since the new set has not even come out yet. So pump the brakes and add some more counters to your decks. I understand CoL is fast so you either commit to beating it or you lose 5-0. The thing is, those counters are solid cards in general and then more people who commit to beating CoL means the more CoL loses. That effectively takes away Kony. We as players set the meta, the playtesters create the set, don't let one card ruin Type 1.
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
Oh yah just like woman with child to Angel/woes/tsc/grapes and priests of Christ and or jephthah grail auto gideon edict
Those things exist too in plenty I get what you're saying but it is not an isolated issue. Regardless of children of light chump blocks have been reliable for years for the exact reasons mentioned
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
Oh yah just like woman with child to Angel/woes/tsc/grapes and priests of Christ and or jephthah grail auto gideon edict
Those things exist too in plenty I get what you're saying but it is not an isolated issue. Regardless of children of light chump blocks have been reliable for years for the exact reasons mentioned
Chump blocks can easily be played around since they are activated by set conditions and in almost every case chump blockers aren't something you can just run out to battle for free every turn.
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
Oh yah just like woman with child to Angel/woes/tsc/grapes and priests of Christ and or jephthah grail auto gideon edict
Those things exist too in plenty I get what you're saying but it is not an isolated issue. Regardless of children of light chump blocks have been reliable for years for the exact reasons mentioned
Those cards do not dispense of the battle phase in any way similar to Voltron'd Children. A Voltron'd Children does not let me play my cards in any meaningful fashion. Woman with Child does. This is not a valid argument.
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
Oh yah just like woman with child to Angel/woes/tsc/grapes and priests of Christ and or jephthah grail auto gideon edict
Those things exist too in plenty I get what you're saying but it is not an isolated issue. Regardless of children of light chump blocks have been reliable for years for the exact reasons mentioned
Those cards do not dispense of the battle phase in any way similar to Voltron'd Children. A Voltron'd Children does not let me play my cards in any meaningful fashion. Woman with Child does. This is not a valid argument.
Coming from the guy stroking his battle phase who handed me two decks with the cheapest blocks and rescues via tgt and judges/Assyrians :p
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
Oh yah just like woman with child to Angel/woes/tsc/grapes and priests of Christ and or jephthah grail auto gideon edict
Those things exist too in plenty I get what you're saying but it is not an isolated issue. Regardless of children of light chump blocks have been reliable for years for the exact reasons mentioned
Those cards do not dispense of the battle phase in any way similar to Voltron'd Children. A Voltron'd Children does not let me play my cards in any meaningful fashion. Woman with Child does. This is not a valid argument.
[/quote
Coming from the guy stroking his battle phase who handed me two decks with the cheapest blocks and rescues via tgt and judges/Assyrians :p ]
Judges was never a NPE deck. TGT was nerfed to the point of non-issue at that point. I don't understand all the needless defense of a stupid deck that should never have made it past playtesting.
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Conceding defeat to a strategy is entirely different than acknowledging strategies the only one of these that is no fun is you giving up
All of the counters to Coney existed before it did that's why it's a real card and not even op
It's actually cute that more counters are being pitched while hardly anyone played the myriad that exist
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The problem with Kony is not it's power level but that it dispenses of the battle phase we just spent three sets getting back.
+1 And this is really unfortunate because so many good things were in RoJ to encourages the battle phase... ie all the negates being able to stop primarily cbp enhancements. I am expecting great things from your card! At the very least no Fiat rulings afterwards, only Maserati rulings >:( ;)
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And even the bowls that I 1 shot Josiahs children with yet somehow no one was equipped for a toss battle?
That has existed for multiple sets
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So pump the brakes and add some more counters to your decks. I understand CoL is fast so you either commit to beating it or you lose 5-0.
The problem with a deck as strong as you describe is, after counters come out, it might drop in playability/power for a time. It might even get shelved entirely by players. But, inevitably, decks like that are "phoenixes" that will be back later when some future card is printed that solves the problems created by Kony's counters.
Ultimately, a deck at that power level that doesn't exist without its lynchpin hero makes the strongest case for banning that's probably ever existed.
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what you are facing is the same dilemma as throne last year. it came out significantly powerful enough for 6/8 top cut players to decide it was a winning shot.
quite simply, at this point the way you build your deck determines whether or not throne can overwhelm you or greatly benefit your own strategy. if this card or the cards previously mentioned were considered broken, they would be adjusted (as seen with humble soul and covenant of prayer). this meta is balanced. children of light won't become bad, neither will throne, neither all of the other d9 options available :p the argument that card advantage makes coney unstoppable is bogus.
you have at least 3 opportunities which fit in nearly every deck to d9 against the offense..
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you have at least 3 opportunities which fit in nearly every deck to d9 against the offense..
The turn the opponent gets all their free cards from Children going off (Music leader, mark of the beast, d9s, etc) is the turn I set up hypocrisy mayhem. The opponent almost always finds a way to hand limit that turn but all of those cards are going right back in the deck before they can hit the table.
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if they have drawn 9 from a block you can't stuff anymore heroes in their hand. hand limit still applies and hand protection is a thing which is why i opted out of mayhem even with hypocrisy
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if they have drawn 9 from a block you can't stuff anymore heroes in their hand. hand limit still applies and hand protection is a thing which is why i opted out of mayhem even with hypocrisy
Hypocrisy always comes before they get to block. If they hand limit from Heroes they just don't get to draw. If I can go the entire final match of a nation tournament and not even know what deck my opponent is playing because they didn't get to put enough cards on the table for me to tell, that's a problem.
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guess i should have played mayhem then :p lol granted that is kind of how my games with Gabe and Brian looked at 2016 nationals
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Who would have thought it would take 12 years for an AoG deck to win T1 2P at Nationals again? ::)