Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: megamanlan on February 16, 2012, 01:33:23 PM
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I'm working on my Anti-Meta deck (Angel/Emperor Deck)
Which one do u all think would be better?
Jacob or Simeon (Warriors) or Gathering of Angels?
Advantages for Jacob: I can band to any of my Angels and I can Search it (via A@SP)
Disadvantage: He can't beat Gomer/KoT w/ Cap & I can't get him back if he dies.
Advantages for Simeon: He + Cap can beat Gomer/KoT
Disadvantage: NT, so I cant search him, If he dies I can't get him back.
Advantages for GoA: No need for Humans in the Deck. Mike+Cap band. (If against a Gardensiples deck) I can recur it. Can search it using Attending Angel
Disadvantage: Slow... Really slow..., I lose one of my best Charcters for 4 turns, possible that I can't recur it...
What do u all think I should choose?
Updated: Here is the Deck, Note: I am getting Naaman's C&H soon.
Heroes: (9)
Silver
Angel of Warning (TexP)
Attending Angel (TexP)
Cherubim (FF2)
Gabriel (Warriors)
Captain of the Host (Warriors)
Micheal (Kings)
Angel of Shur (P)
The Destroyer
Blue
Jacob (FF)
Good Enhancements: (7)
Silver
Protection of Angels (Pi)
The First Seal
Striking Herod
Angel's Sword
Silver/Green
Spiritual Warfare
Live Coal (FF2)
Wheel within a Wheel (FF2)
Evil Characters: (9)
Gray
Emperor Augustus
Emperor Nero
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Ortho
Emperor Galba
Brown
Uzzah
Brown/Gold
The Amalekites' Slave
Gray/Black
Scribe
Gray/Orange
The Terrifying Beast
Evil Enhancements: (7)
Gray
Bearing Bad News
Balaam's Disobedience
Night Raid
Israel pays Tribute
Heavy Taxes
Black
Wrath of Satan
Gray/Gold
Expelling the Jews
Artifacts: (3)
Household Idols
Hezekiah's Signet Ring
Gifts of the Magi
Covenants: (1)
Purple
Covenant of Palestine
Sites: (4)
Hormah
Mildewed House
Caesarea Philippi
Chorazin
Fortresses: (3)
Chamber of Angels
Rome
Satan's Seat
Good Domiants: (3)
Son of God (Greek)
New Jerusalem (P)
Angel of the Lord (Greek)
Evil Domiants: (4)
Falling Away
Burial
Destruction of Nehushtan
Christian Martyr
Lost Souls: (7)
LS (First Round)
LS (NT Only)
LS (Shuffler)
LS (2-Liner)
LS (Revealer)
LS (Beggar)
LS (Shut Door)
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A different offense.
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U know that I'm not change my offense. I'm working on what this one could be...
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U know that I'm not change my offense. I'm working on what this one could be...
You do realize this is the "Deck Advice" section, right? Thus, Pol's giving advice, about your deck....
I agree. Mono (or mainly) Silver won't win you anything, and it's not very anti-meta. Emps have a serious problem against Disciples.
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Only against Zealot which I can get rid of. And Augustas hurts them badly.
Yea, I do know that. The main reason why me and plenty of people in my area stopped putting Decks on here was bad advice like that. We want help and suggestions to make it better not 'just ditch the deck' comments or reduce the deck comments. This forum is asking which of these cards would be best for my deck. Not don't use it because of 1 card out there.
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Only against Zealot which I can get rid of.
how do a bunch of 10/1s beat Thad?
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Most Disciple decks also run Crown of Thorns, which kills half your defense right there.
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Only against Zealot which I can get rid of.
how do a bunch of 10/1s beat Thad?
The bigger worry is Crown of Thorns.
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I haven't seen CoT in a deck yet, and for Thad, Stan's Chair stops him cold.
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I haven't seen CoT in a deck yet, and for Thad, Stan's Chair stops him cold.
Using that logic, I haven't seen Stan's Chair in a deck yet, so I shouldn't worry about that either. You probably won't see many Di decks, but they will stop this cold. Most other meta decks will just outspeed you, using DoN, PH and CA to take out any arts.
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I haven't seen CoT in a deck yet, and for Thad, Stan's Chair stops him cold.
Are you really willing to take that kind of risk? What if you don't if Satan's seat out early enough? Plus My lord & my God takes out Satan's seat. And if you are playing Disciples, there's really no reason not to use CoT.
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I would use a different off + a different def. :P
If you want to know what to add on your original post (Jacob, Simeon, or GoA), Simeon would be better than Jacob.
Advantages for Jacob: I can band to any of my Angels and I can Search it (via A@SP)
Disadvantage: He can't beat Gomer/KoT w/ Cap & I can't get him back if he dies. I think he+Cap do beat Gomer+KoT? Not sure what you are thinking of?
Advantages for GoA: No need for Humans in the Deck. Mike+Cap band. (If against a Gardensiples deck) I can recur it. Can search it using Attending Angel
Disadvantage: Slow... Really slow..., I lose one of my best Charcters for 4 turns, possible that I can't recur it... If you were against my TGDi deck, I don't think you'd have a chance to recur it (assuming you're talking about using Matthew), seeing as the game would probably be over by then.
My Deck runs a slow down strategy. My goal is to force u down to my speed to put us on an even playing field, if not give me the advantage.
And as far as I know, Jacob+Cap doesn't beat Gomer+KoT. The numbers are too low.
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Jake=6/5
CotH=10/10
Total=16/15
KoT=10/12
Gomer=3/3
Total=13/15.
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Angels/Emperors seems like anti meta to me. Silver gets around Writ and Magic charms, and the BTN gets around Slave, Sabbath Breaker, and Uzzah. The defense isn't particularly good against Sam but should hold its own against Gardenciples and Water TGT.
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My Deck runs a slow down strategy. My goal is to force u down to my speed to put us on an even playing field, if not give me the advantage.
What would those cards that you use be out of curiosity?
I think silver is a good anti-meta offense but what do you do against Sam and Genesis on the defense?
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@Red Wing why would u waste MLaMG on SS when I'm ignoring anyone who can band + Nero's in Battle?
I have RbD & HSR for Sam decks.
My Deck runs a slow down strategy. My goal is to force u down to my speed to put us on an even playing field, if not give me the advantage.
What would those cards that you use be out of curiosity?
I think silver is a good anti-meta offense but what do you do against Sam and Genesis on the defense?
Well, RbD for Anti-Draw (I might put Gifts in instead) and Signet Ring.
I run Genesis Deck so I know that if they can't Search, they have MAJOR problems, and if u have something like Confusion of Mind or Golden Calf up it is horrid for them.
For Sam HHI and RbD.
Please refrain from double posting, thanks. :)
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Please, no double posting.
Ok HHI, RBD, and signet ring are all good. I would really recommend Nazzy since search abilities are such a huge part of the meta.
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The main problem with a deck like this is that it's not going to be fast enough to set up to slow down speed decks. Sam decks can deck out in 3-5 turns and Gardensciples aren't that far behind them. This could stop Genesis if down well, but 1/3 isn't cutting it for an anti-meta, especially when one of the themes that will have at least a minor presence in the meta (Disciples) will stomp this deck cold. I like the thought of silver being anti-meta, because technically it is, but I would much rather do something like Green/Silver or Gold/Silver to gain the anti-meta advantages of silver, while still remaining viable as far as actual power goes.
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I have stopped Sam decks down to not Decking out or even getting close when I played them. Also, if I use Gifts instead of RbD then it speeds my deck up. Besides, against most Sam decks I get a +4 w/ Villeitus.
Personally, I hate the 'knock-off' Decks (Silver/Green, Silver/any other brigade) and I'm not going to play that. I'd only play a Human to help my angels not take them over.
Also, they don't 'gain the anti-meta' advantages of Silver. That is the Meta.
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I know you have a lot of arts but d you use shroud? That would help you a little bit at least. Gifts over RBD would work except that they are still getting to the cards that they need to beat you defense, so in the interest of restricting Sam, I would say leave RBD.
Also I think that Chronic might have a good idea try splashing some judges in your deck and see if it helps the offense any.
A +4 with Vittles is nice but compared to Sam's +8 it's really nothing... Also how do you manage to block against Sam's banding? (other than HHI)
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Heavy Taxes and Balaam's Disobedience are good blocks, but after that, Romans don't really have many other ways to win battles that aren't easily countered.
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Heavy Taxes and Balaam's Disobedience are good blocks, but after that, Romans don't really have many other ways to win battles that aren't easily countered.
Actually Rome let's them use NT Enhacements of any Brigade (including WoS) and it's not the easyist to stop Ortho. My other way of getting around banding, The Terrifying Beast to Agustuas, or Uzzah.
Also, Nazzy is more harmful to me than my opponent. Angels search a LOT and I utilize that.
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After reading this thread it seems pretty clear that he is not wanting to change his offense, let alone deck, so lets help him with his strategy he wants to run. I don't really understand what you are trying to ask though. Is Simeon to Captain better than Jacob to Captain, or is Gathering better than all? I would not use Gathering in type 1, Jacob bands to Isaiah angels as well as your silver, so that's a plus. However, Simeon bands to opponent's Isaiah, but only your Captain. Both bands beat Gomer/KoT so I'm not sure where you are going with this. If you are running straight silver and want to splash in either Simeon or Jacob, then Jacob by 99%.
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If you are running straight silver and want to splash in either Simeon or Jacob, then Jacob by 99%.
In a mono-silver deck, you can usually win the battle by the numbers, so you don't need either Simeon or Jacob. I believe Simeon would be better anti-meta, which is what this deck aims to be, since he can band to Sam, John, Peter, Isaiah, Ezek., even Jacob to potentially get the opponent to get rid of his own offense.
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That would only be useful once or twice. If he's running mostly Silver, he won't be able to pack Gold enhancements.
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Thank you. My other thing is I can use Cherubim to borrow Isaiah.
The suggestion I got was to use that from Pol before. I like Jacob better for the Silver banding. But I was wondering what other's opinions were, not opening myself up for debate on my deck.
As to you, Master Q, it's because I've changed my deck some. I was running Heretics, then I tried the 'meta-defense' and then I decided to go w/ Emperors because I've been collecting them anyway, and I like how they run.
Also, quick note: I can (and do this for Pharisees) run a Capture Deck using Raiders to block, and then capture myself and let u release me by winning. Also u can play Bearing Bad News too, which doesn't real give initiative to Negate it and just die then. I'm not sure if they'd want me announcing them though. But I will note that I am one of them. And what I mean is that I don't like people that just complain that a deck is crap and should go w/ a Deck or strategy that my deck is working on destroying.
If you are running straight silver and want to splash in either Simeon or Jacob, then Jacob by 99%.
In a mono-silver deck, you can usually win the battle by the numbers, so you don't need either Simeon or Jacob. I believe Simeon would be better anti-meta, which is what this deck aims to be, since he can band to Sam, John, Peter, Isaiah, Ezek., even Jacob to potentially get the opponent to get rid of his own offense.
Gomer+KoT beats all my angels and half of my angels don't have big numbers.
This is the second time I've edited your posts in this topic. Please stop double-posting.
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Emperors run best with Abe's Kids. The entire defense is reliant on keeping Horses up, so having a way to easily recur them is pro. Just have Jacob and maybe Sarah (longer captain band) or Servant Girl (soulgen) along with Abe's Kids and Golgotha and the defense will be more reliable.
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If you go with more blue, Pleading for the city is a nice to get your angels out fast.
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Emperors run best with Abe's Kids. The entire defense is reliant on keeping Horses up, so having a way to easily recur them is pro. Just have Jacob and maybe Sarah Rachel (longer captain band) or Servant Girl (soulgen) along with Abe's Kids and Golgotha and the defense will be more reliable.
FTFY... ;)
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U mean like Scribe+False Peace or Twice Inflicted?
Also, I'd love a way to recur Heavy Taxes.
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Do you have RDJ?
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Also, I'd love a way to recur Heavy Taxes.
One way to do this would be Twice Afflicted (Lying Spirit to an Emperor w/Horses). The Abe's Des/Golgotha route is good too.
If you want, you could post your whole deck and get more specific advice on what cards to keep, switch out, etc. If not, I could probably help you at the next tournament (time permitting), or give you more general advice there if you want. It's hard for me (and probably others) to give more advice without seeing your whole deck. :)
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Updated, with my entire deck now.
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How do you plan to get Wrath off?
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How do you plan to get Wrath off?
Scribe and Rome.
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Yep. + if its cloging my hand Othro shoots it to blow up the battlefield.
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Yep. + if its cloging my hand Othro shoots it to blow up the battlefield.
I know you've got EC's to play it on, but it'll get negated almost for sure. Then you've got the problem of having no offense for two turns.
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Thats usually why I'll play it early or when my territory is empty.
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Thats usually why I'll play it early or when my territory is empty.
Those will be rare occurrences. A card that's dead when I have heroes out is not worth the slot in my opinion.
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King David will hurt the defense. Since you don't have any curses, maybe Golgotha would be better than Chorazin. Golgotha will also help against TGT. And no RDJ?
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Well, I do also use it for Ortho as mentioned, and I don't mind losing a couple Heroes to clear my opponents territory which he may not be able to get back.
Yes, I do need that too, but Chorzin stops Holy Grail.
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Yeah your deck is probably not the most likely to win tournaments but I don't know why people just respond with telling you to switch decks. I get tired of using the same old decks even if they do win. So if you are going to make a silver/gray deck then try to make it the best you can, which is what I think you were asking about. So.....
With your current deck, I don't think Jacob is the best choice for just the numbers and Angel at Shur isn't worth it to just search for Jacob. I would either add a little more support for that idea - Abe's Descendants, Seraphim that bands to blue, possibly another large number blue guy, Abes servant to Ur, Pleading for City, Guardian Angel or I would take them out and focus more on straight silver. Alternatively, Job is still a good choice to splash with mostly silver.
In the current build, I don't think The Destroyer is good - you don't really have enhancements you'd want to discard for his ability.
Speaking of anti-meta, there are angels that band to purple, white, blue, green. That would give you the chance to use most of what people are playing.
I would definitely take out The First Seal (doesn't help win battles) and possibly Spiritual Warfare since you cant play it pre-block.
I'm not convinced Wrath of Satan is a good choice for this deck and similarly I don't think you'll get the init to play Bearing Bad News or Night Raid without them being negated.
I don't think you need Cov of Palestine since they are unlikely to capture many angels. You can take out Mildewed House for Golgotha and Hormah is optional.
For offense, do you have The Strong Angel? No reason not to use him. I might include Angel Under the Oak even without judges, just for the draw 2. You seem to be really concerned about KoT but there are a number of silver enhancements that can help - Godspeed, Army of the Lord, Captains Sword, Victory, and a bunch of others if played on Michael.
Don't know what cards you have but Gloria in Excelsis Deo, Gabriel meets Zach, Praise Him Moon, Fire Smoke and Sulfur, Flaming Sword, Innumerable, Multitude, Swift beings, The Second Seal, Three Angels, or Wheat and Tares could be helpful. I think you could also benefit from the silver covenants.
For evil definitely Romans Destroy Jerusalem. Get this card if you don't have it yet. Then maybe Denarius, Pontius Pilate. Adding Lying Spirit and Twice Afflicted so you have 2 ways to get your best defensive cards back is good. Balaam, Unsucessful, and Cov w Death is another good option. That can help both your offense and defense. I'd try to add Unknown Nation and Lurking for some more banding options.
For lost souls I'd take out shuffler, 2-liner, and revealer for site guard, site remover, and site doubler. that is my humble opinion.
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I might include Angel Under the Oak even without judges, just for the draw 2.
You can't Draw 2 without exchanging.
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well I haven't looked at the actual card in a while but on RTS is says "You may draw 2 and exchange this Hero with a gold Judge in your hand, territory, deck or discard pile. Protect Gideon from opponents. Cannot be negated."
It is not a cost or requirement to draw cards. Since it is a may, I don't see why you couldn't draw and not exchange. If for some reason you had to also exchange then you could just pick your territory or hand that has no Judge to exchange to.
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I might include Angel Under the Oak even without judges, just for the draw 2.
You can't Draw 2 without exchanging.
Yes you can. The exchange isn't a requirement for the draw, it's the second part of his ability.
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ahh my bad, you can. I agree with galadgawyn's assessment.
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Yeah your deck is probably not the most likely to win tournaments but I don't know why people just respond with telling you to switch decks. I get tired of using the same old decks even if they do win. So if you are going to make a silver/gray deck then try to make it the best you can, which is what I think you were asking about. So.....
With your current deck, I don't think Jacob is the best choice for just the numbers and Angel at Shur isn't worth it to just search for Jacob. I would either add a little more support for that idea - Abe's Descendants, Seraphim that bands to blue, possibly another large number blue guy, Abes servant to Ur, Pleading for City, Guardian Angel or I would take them out and focus more on straight silver. Alternatively, Job is still a good choice to splash with mostly silver.
In the current build, I don't think The Destroyer is good - you don't really have enhancements you'd want to discard for his ability.
Speaking of anti-meta, there are angels that band to purple, white, blue, green. That would give you the chance to use most of what people are playing.
I would definitely take out The First Seal (doesn't help win battles) and possibly Spiritual Warfare since you cant play it pre-block.
I'm not convinced Wrath of Satan is a good choice for this deck and similarly I don't think you'll get the init to play Bearing Bad News or Night Raid without them being negated.
I don't think you need Cov of Palestine since they are unlikely to capture many angels. You can take out Mildewed House for Golgotha and Hormah is optional.
For offense, do you have The Strong Angel? No reason not to use him. I might include Angel Under the Oak even without judges, just for the draw 2. You seem to be really concerned about KoT but there are a number of silver enhancements that can help - Godspeed, Army of the Lord, Captains Sword, Victory, and a bunch of others if played on Michael.
Don't know what cards you have but Gloria in Excelsis Deo, Gabriel meets Zach, Praise Him Moon, Fire Smoke and Sulfur, Flaming Sword, Innumerable, Multitude, Swift beings, The Second Seal, Three Angels, or Wheat and Tares could be helpful. I think you could also benefit from the silver covenants.
For evil definitely Romans Destroy Jerusalem. Get this card if you don't have it yet. Then maybe Denarius, Pontius Pilate. Adding Lying Spirit and Twice Afflicted so you have 2 ways to get your best defensive cards back is good. Balaam, Unsucessful, and Cov w Death is another good option. That can help both your offense and defense. I'd try to add Unknown Nation and Lurking for some more banding options.
For lost souls I'd take out shuffler, 2-liner, and revealer for site guard, site remover, and site doubler. that is my humble opinion.
Just to Note: Most of the Angels in the Deck are OT (Excluding 3) and Angel at Shur is to get Mike faster. Wheat and Tares requires a NT Angel so it's not as good. Captains Sword is total trash and not worth playing in the Deck. I dont understand why u think I should drop the 1st Seal because it makes me Immune and is CBI. Warfare is to get around my Opponents easier w/o killing them. I don't care if it's pre-block or not. If I ran Victory I'd have Destroyer in the Deck just for that.
As to Romans destroy Jerusalem, it's not good in this meta because not many people are running NT Heroes. Although I agree Bearing Bad News is crap, but it's more of a place holder for Naaman's C&H for now. And (unfortunately) ur wrong, lots of cards capture Angels. (Most of Gray, Imprisoned, etc.) and that's pretty much the only card to stop that. Denarius I would play if I had room, but Pilate, no. Mainly because it's once a game and the only way for me to put it in is to drop an Emperor. WoS is a maybe, I might drop it if I can never pull it off. (Even though it is good Drop fodder for Ortho.)
Do u know what Mildewed House does? (Although it may leave my deck later if it has too.) also Hormah's a staple. On LS's, Site-guard is really dumb to play, trust me I used to play it. Site Remove isn't incredibly good and I don't trust Site Doubler. Revealer is fun, but unnessiary though. 2-liner is the best LS in the deck so I wouldn't drop that and Shuffler has saved me more than it's hurt me.
Also, I'm using the new Cherubim who bands to a Green Prophet/Teal Priest/Cherubim and no one would run the old one, and as I previously mentioned, he's there to ensure that I don't have to use Enhancements to win w/ Jacob+Captain.
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Just to Note: Most of the Angels in the Deck are OT (Excluding 3) Which is a disadvantage because you will have limited access to the NT only. TSA is the 2nd or so best Silver hero. Why not use him?. Warfare is to get around my Opponents easier w/o killing them. I don't care if it's pre-block or not. Unless it's played pre-block, it will just get negated.
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I agree. Instaposted.
We obviously have some different opinions and maybe that is related to play style. You did ask for advice though so I'll try to explain some of those points.
For Angel at Shur, I was thinking he could only search for humans (thats what most people use him for) but remembering that he can search for your angels makes him much better and probably worth including.
Wheat and Tares requires a NT Angel so it's not as good. Captains Sword is total trash and not worth playing in the Deck. I dont understand why u think I should drop the 1st Seal because it makes me Immune and is CBI.
First of all the list of enhancements were possible suggestions not all cards to definitely add because I didn't know what you had available. It seemed possible that you might not have a full collection because you didn't include obvious choices (The Strong Angel) and have things like The First Seal in there. You can be immune all day long on offence but it wont help you win. Any decent defence is fine with that. With Warfare, you have to get initiative to play it (unlikely in this deck), have it not be negated, and played post block defences will still have many good options to stop it. For Wheat and Tares that was an option primarily if you chose to include an extra NT angel or 2. Captains Sword is not trash; though not the best, it would have Captain or Michael beat your Gomer+KoT band which you seemed to think was one of your biggest problems.
As to Romans destroy Jerusalem, it's not good in this meta because not many people are running NT Heroes.
This is just false. One of the best decks is still some variation on TGT and a lot of people uses mutliple fortresses. It also gives a +6 for your first strike Romans.
And (unfortunately) ur wrong, lots of cards capture Angels.
Don't think so. I didn't say that the cards didn't exist, just that it was unlikely that opponents will play them. You did title this "Anti-Meta" after all. People rarely play with more than one capture card that can target angels and sometimes none at all.
I think you underestimate Pilate's ability and it was also to give you another Character with some actual toughness against cards like Thad, Crown of Thorns, Gates of Sam, etc.
I think you greatly overestimate Ortho's ability. Just about every good offence will have most of the cards in that offence be able to stop him.
Do u know what Mildewed House does?
Ummm yes, its basically worthless. It sets aside a hero for 2 turns and good offences have plenty of heros so that won't matter. And the opponent will think "you have to give me a lost soul to set-aside my hero for 2 turns? Yeah I'll make that trade!"
On LS's, Site-guard is really dumb to play, trust me I used to play it.
Then I don't think you knew how to use it. The ability to add another character to battle after the opponent plays a CBN battle winner, is very strong. So much that you might want to add Gates of Hell, also. It can often be the difference between them winning or not. Site remover and Site doubler help with the lost soul manipulation and your sites.
Hormah would be better if you had RDJ in to get rid of Philistine Outpost and 2-liner would be better if you had another way to get rid of it like Just a Hireling. Speaking of which, I think pairing the Romans with some Pharisees is another good option.
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I agree with galadgawyn's assessment. He gave a thorough explanation, gave reasons to what to take out, why, and left possible choices for you.
Captains Sword is total trash and not worth playing in the Deck. I dont understand why u think I should drop the 1st Seal because it makes me Immune and is CBI.
Could use some more polite rewording, but anyway, immunity on offense is nothing.
As to Romans destroy Jerusalem, it's not good in this meta because not many people are running NT Heroes.
So discarding all fortresses and all N.T. hero's is not good just because O.T. offenses are running rampant? People will still use fortresses, 6/0 for your first strike, CBN, and if they use N.T. green prophets, some angels, Disciples, TGT, or splash hero's, you got 'em.
Site-guard is really dumb to play, trust me I used to play it. Site Remove isn't incredibly good and I don't trust Site Doubler. Revealer is fun, but unnessiary though
SIte guard is a great lost soul, depending on your sites. Site remover is very good, and versatile. Site doubler is awesome. Revealer is fun, and necessary for decks that attack often.
P.S.- Mildewed House is eh.
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Not how I play Warfare. I play it to Mike which makes it CBN.
Also my combo for winning is Mike+Wheel+AS
First of all the list of enhancements were possible suggestions not all cards to definitely add because I didn't know what you had available. It seemed possible that you might not have a full collection because you didn't include obvious choices (The Strong Angel) and have things like The First Seal in there. You can be immune all day long on offence but it wont help you win. Any decent defence is fine with that. With Warfare, you have to get initiative to play it (unlikely in this deck), have it not be negated, and played post block defences will still have many good options to stop it. For Wheat and Tares that was an option primarily if you chose to include an extra NT angel or 2. Captains Sword is not trash; though not the best, it would have Captain or Michael beat your Gomer+KoT band which you seemed to think was one of your biggest problems.
Captains Sword is useless because I'm using the Warriors version. And I would never give up a RA willingly. Also, The First Seal is useful, because most Defenses will just negate it, but the First Seal is CBI. In case u don't know if I'm Immune to u, ur not winning and can't affect me unless ur card states 'Regardless of Immunity' and there is only a handful of cards that do that.
As to Romans destroy Jerusalem, it's not good in this meta because not many people are running NT Heroes.
This is just false. One of the best decks is still some variation on TGT and a lot of people uses mutliple fortresses. It also gives a +6 for your first strike Romans.
So I should drop a Battlewinner for a card that could at best only help in a handful of situations?
Don't think so. I didn't say that the cards didn't exist, just that it was unlikely that opponents will play them. You did title this "Anti-Meta" after all. People rarely play with more than one capture card that can target angels and sometimes none at all.
Actually most Capture cards that are currently being played are 'Capture a Hero' and the main way I can lose my Mike Combo is him being captured. (that is if I don't beat my opponent using Angel's Sword 1st) This is my backup plan to ensure it's not a problem.
I think you underestimate Pilate's ability and it was also to give you another Character with some actual toughness against cards like Thad, Crown of Thorns, Gates of Sam, etc.
I think you greatly overestimate Ortho's ability. Just about every good offence will have most of the cards in that offence be able to stop him.
I think you're overestimating Pilate's usefulness. I have more Characters that could help me and have 1st Strike than him. And I know Ortho is easy to stop, varying... But you underestimate his possibilities too.
Do u know what Mildewed House does?
Ummm yes, its basically worthless. It sets aside a hero for 2 turns and good offences have plenty of heros so that won't matter. And the opponent will think "you have to give me a lost soul to set-aside my hero for 2 turns? Yeah I'll make that trade!"
Yes, but if I can kick out one of his best cards for 2 turns, I'd like that too. But as I said, it may go out because I like my Satan's Seat better.
On LS's, Site-guard is really dumb to play, trust me I used to play it.
Then I don't think you knew how to use it. The ability to add another character to battle after the opponent plays a CBN battle winner, is very strong. So much that you might want to add Gates of Hell, also. It can often be the difference between them winning or not. Site remover and Site doubler help with the lost soul manipulation and your sites.
sorry, but you don't get that many cards kill guards. Dragon Raid for example. Also, the card states that the Hero must have access to that Site (it must be a RA at that site) to throw it into battle. And why would I want to lose a Character for who knows how long? Also, your idea of Site mannipulation isnt the same around here. Pulling LS's out of Sites isn't a good idea unless u have a lot of LS's that activate when they are put in a Site. Site Doubler is okay though, I just don't have room.
Hormah would be better if you had RDJ in to get rid of Philistine Outpost and 2-liner would be better if you had another way to get rid of it like Just a Hireling. Speaking of which, I think pairing the Romans with some Pharisees is another good option.
I have a couple ways of getting rid of it. (Shuffler, Hormah, Burial, etc)
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Just out of curiosity, have any changes been made to this deck?
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Not how I play Warfare. I play it to Mike which makes it CBN.
Also my combo for winning is Mike+Wheel+AS
I have a hard time seeing that come out with an Angels offense. Angel's lack the speed to get out your combo, If you want to build your deck around this by all means do it, but perhaps splash in another brigade for speed. Additionally there are a lot more things that silver has to offer, namely Captain banding chains, and TSA (IMO he's the best Hero in the game when you get him early.
Captains Sword is useless because I'm using the Warriors version. And I would never give up a RA willingly. Also, The First Seal is useful, because most Defenses will just negate it, but the First Seal is CBI. In case u don't know if I'm Immune to u, ur not winning and can't affect me unless ur card states 'Regardless of Immunity' and there is only a handful of cards that do that.
Agreed the warriors version isn't that useful, sooooo why not acquire the kings version? The problem with immunity and ignore (if not payed pre-block) is that it gives you opponent initiative to do all sorts of nasty things in your territory, sure their wrath of Satan didn't kill the guy you played it on, but it did kill everyone else in your territory, and you don't have the initiative to negate it.
Actually most Capture cards that are currently being played are 'Capture a Hero' and the main way I can lose my Mike Combo is him being captured. (that is if I don't beat my opponent using Angel's Sword 1st) This is my backup plan to ensure it's not a problem.
The most prominant meta captures are Writ and Charms, and they only capture humans, capture enhancements that can target angels aren't really found meta decks, the ones you are trying to counter.
I think you're overestimating Pilate's usefulness. I have more Characters that could help me and have 1st Strike than him. And I know Ortho is easy to stop, varying... But you underestimate his possibilities too.
I have found Otho to be essentially without value in all the times I have played him, in all the games that I got to use him he was interrupted or negated. Pilate's ability is incredibly versatile and his numbers can be very helpful particularly against Thad and TSA.
Yes, but if I can kick out one of his best cards for 2 turns, I'd like that too. But as I said, it may go out because I like my Satan's Seat better.
Why not put in another defensive card instead? That way you can block easier and not have to worry about giving up a soul.
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Not how I play Warfare. I play it to Mike which makes it CBN.
Also my combo for winning is Mike+Wheel+AS
So a 12/8 gets initiative... Even if you used Angel's Sword, you have a slim chance of getting this every game, and even if you do, immunity is NOT a battle winner.
And just a question, why did you ask for advice on this deck? Honestly from this deck list the majority, if not all, of the people who gave advice on your deck seem more qualified than you, yet you disrespect their advice, or completely throw it out.
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Mostly because I have been requesting help on which of the Banding guys to put in. Usually I don't like asking for help on my main deck for that reason.
Also, I only posted the deck so others can see what I have in so They can let me
Know which card I should put in for banding.
And for all of your information, I can usually pull my Mike Combo quickly. (within a couple turns) Angels are faster then people give them credit for, but they aren't incredibly fast either. It would be best if I can find a Defense that is really fast to help my angels.
Also, Satan's Seat is in my deck currently.
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I only posted the deck so others can see what I have in so They can let me Know which card I should put in for banding.
In that case I would add band to blue Seraphim, Tribal Elder, Rachael, and Jacob, that's one of the bigger captain banding chains out there. Of course you can opt for a smaller version of that chain, or a different banding chain.
It would be best if I can find a Defense that is really fast to help my angels.
Then I would cut out some emperors and add in some pharisees.
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Pharisees aren't that fast. I should know, I play them in another deck.
The problem w/ that is that I use the new Cherubim, but I think your thinking of Seraphim. But it's not good, similar with Tribal Elder. The reason why I asked is to have a chain that no one can just beat by the numbers.
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If you don't want to switch out a lot to make the defense faster you could add Sabbath Breaker and take out Satan's Seat. I would also seriously consider adding RDJ instead of Wrath and here is why:
RDJ
Can wipes out an entire offense +
CBN+
Works only against NT heroes -
Doesn't hit many of your heroes and Forts +
Ortho Fodder if unusable +
Pretty much has to be played off Naaman's Chariot and Horses -
Wrath
Can be negated on anyone you play it on -
Pretty much has to be played either on scribe or off Naaman's Chariot with (with Rome in play). -
Works against all heroes +
Can wipe out an entire offense +
Kills your offense -
Ortho Fodder if unusable +
I am not a fan of things that can be negated and things that kill my offense so I would rather have RDJ. Just my thoughts. :)
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On defense, you're not going to get to play any of your evil enhancements, except maybe on Scribe, but yeah, they'd get interrupted and/or negated on him. I'd switch Cov of Palestine with Confusion o' Mind or RBD, Mildewed House with Unholy Writ, Ortho with Entrapping Pharisees, Israel Pays Tribute with Namaan's C + H, Expelling the Jews with Unknown Nation or Pretension, Satan's Seat with Proud Pharisee, Night Raid with Just a Hireling, Wrath o' Satan with False Peace, Rome with Herod's Temple, Galba with King Pekahiah, and Terrifying Beast with Pharisees or Sabbath Breaker.
On offense, it's practically a crime to not use TSA in an all-silver deck, since he stops more than Cap (and I know you have one). I would switch out the Destroyer for him. I would also switch out the Attending Angel for Paladin the Fighter. I would also switch out The First Seal for either Fire, Smoke, and Sulfur or Army of the Lord. I would also switch out Angel at Shur for the Angel under the Oak, since his draw 2 is huge. I'd also switch Live Coal for Godspeed, and Jacob with Simeon (wa), since Jacob to anything but Cap will probably be shut off, and then you'll have nothing to play on him.
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Pharisees aren't that fast. I should know, I play them in another deck.
Pharisees aren't fast? ??? They are one of the fastest defenses out there. Proud Pharisee, one of the best characters in the game is a D2, Sabbath Breaker would be a D3, leave in Vittles and that's a D2 or 3. Tenants Kill the Son is D1 and win, and Pretension is D2 and win. That makes for a total of about 10 cards drawn, and off of cards that would be good, in most cases, even without the drawing.
The problem w/ that is that I use the new Cherubim, but I think your thinking of Seraphim. But it's not good, similar with Tribal Elder. The reason why I asked is to have a chain that no one can just beat by the numbers.
You asked for a banding, I was just making a suggestion.
EDIT: Horses on an emperor is another D2.
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Angels are faster then people give them credit for, but they aren't incredibly fast either. It would be best if I can find a Defense that is really fast to help my angels.
Pharisees aren't that fast. I should know, I play them in another deck.
I think it's ironic how you say Pharisees are slow, and Angels are faster than people think...
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I agree with Hiatus. There's a lot of really good players offering good advice, and you're rejecting it all. Phars are one of, if not the, fastest defense in Redemption. Angels really aren't that fast, and expecting to get inish with a 12/8 is crazy talk.
On top of it all, this really isn't an "anti-meta" deck. This is Angels/Romans with a few arts that are mean. Heck, the thing that's the most anti-meta about this is RDJ, which you don't even have... This is why you got so many people saying "change the offense," as Silver isn't very good against meta defenses. (once again, the strongest anti-meta Angels put forward is TSA, which you don't have).
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@Master Q: I don't have the good TSA, only the Kings one.
Also, I'm mainly keeping to Romans, not swapping the Characters. (Im trying to find a way to put Breaker in) I'd never drop Live Coal or Expelling the Jews because they are interrupts/negates. That and Godspeed is junky at best. Also, I'm looking at using Abe's Desendent and Jacob is quiet useful otherwise too a bit more than Simeon. (I only have 2 prophets)
I do need mainly Sites and wouldn't drop Satan's Seat because it stops Thad/Simon the Zealot and gives me the power to kill most of my Opponent Site Access cards.
Also, I did just add RdJ into the deck, and am thinking of dropping Ortho.
Pretension can't win a battle. It states in a territory. I would throw a CoM in if I had it, it's better than CwD in this Deck. Angels can still take on most of the Meta Defenses. And the reason why I'm rejecting their advice is because they are suggesting cards that I've used before and (for the most part) have and have found it's not a good as most people think for Offense, I have been playing Angels since I started when TeXP came out.
And as I said, Angels Sword gives inish.
@Hitaus: If you think that Angels are really slow then I've Probally not played a good Angel deck. A bad Angel deck doesn't run fast, mine goes faster and gets my combos out faster than my opponents. And if Pharisees are so good then why aren't they currently played?
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Mildewed House only works after a successful rescue attempt, but is great. Pretension works before the attempt, and lets you draw, but isn't good.
Wut?
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I don't have the good TSA, only the Kings one.
Throw in Israelite archer to band to TSA and you're still in good shape
A bad Angel deck doesn't run fast, mine goes faster and gets my combos out faster than my opponents.
What are your opponents running then?
And if Pharisees are so good then why aren't they currently played?
If Roman's and Angels are so good why are you the only one playing them? Because I see more pharisees played than either Roman's or Angels.
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Yeah, who plays TGT/Red anyway....
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I do need mainly Sites and wouldn't drop Satan's Seat because it stops Thad/Simon the Zealot and gives me the power to kill most of my Opponent Site Access cards.
My Lord and My God.
Also in this "meta" deck, you should not be worried about stopping Disciples, but more so Samuel, Angels/Judges, Isaiah, Joseph and friends, and TGT.
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You only have four sites? That does not a lockout make. Heck, that's barely site-stall.
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+1 Either add more sites (not recommended), or take the sites you have out for some Pharisees and TSA (recommended).
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The reason I have Sites is because my EC's come when they are useless. I can force Sites out of my deck faster.
@Master Q So then how do you expect for me to stop any cards my Opponent plays?
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The reason I have Sites is because my EC's come when they are useless.
What exactly do you mean? I'm sorry it's a little late where right now and I'm a bit confused.
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The reason I have Sites is because my EC's come when they are useless. I can force Sites out of my deck faster.
@Master Q So then how do you expect for me to stop any cards my Opponent plays?
Then add Well Reopened to play off of Jacob.
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That does help, but I do have AoW to help pull them too.
Does anyone know where I can find where I can find the 3 best decks out there? (Aka the 3 Meta decks going around)
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here: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/deck-concepts/going-to-the-doctor-a-six-month-checkup-on-the-redemption-meta/ (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/deck-concepts/going-to-the-doctor-a-six-month-checkup-on-the-redemption-meta/)
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If you're looking for an actual decklist, I'd just try searching the T-1 deck ideas board. There aren't any on the first two pages, but they'll be there somewhere. Just bear in mind, while all Geneptians and Gardenciples decks are pretty much there same, there are many ways to play a Samuel offense.
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If you're looking for an actual decklist, I'd just try searching the T-1 deck ideas board. There aren't any on the first two pages, but they'll be there somewhere. Just bear in mind, while all Geneptians and Gardenciples decks are pretty much there same, there are many ways to play a Samuel offense.
I think Genesis can go in a few different ways, actually. There's the version I use that's really enhancement-lite, there are versions that are enhancement heavy but still pretty lite on defense, and there's versions that have a lot for both offense and defense.
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I suppose you could count that as different, but really it's just a matter of which of the same pool of cards are included or omitted, just like in Gardenciples where some decks may use Lydia or not or James or not, but no deck's going to use Saint of Virtue or Glittering Sword. It's not like Sam decks that can have an emphasis on any combination of Red, Gold, Teal, Green or Purple and have completely different card pools based on each.
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Okay, what defense is usually seen w/ Sam decks and/or Gardensiples?
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Okay, what defense is usually seen w/ Sam decks and/or Gardensiples?
Ammy's Slave, Gomer, KoT, Uzzah, Sabbath Breaker, Unholy Writ, and Haman's Plot. Sometimes a few Magicians and Charms.
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Wouldn't Sam decks work more w/ Isrealite Kings, right?
I have heard that Gardensiples uses that more.
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Okay, what defense is usually seen w/ Sam decks and/or Gardensiples?
Ammy's Slave, Gomer, KoT, Uzzah, Sabbath Breaker, Unholy Writ, and Haman's Plot. Sometimes a few Magicians and Charms.
This is correct. It's pretty much the defensive "meta"
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WAIT! You forgot Goliath!
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WAIT! You forgot Goliath!
I wouldn't call Goliath staple in a small defense that doesn't focus on Philistines.
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Wouldn't Sam decks work more w/ Isrealite Kings, right?
I have heard that Gardensiples uses that more.
No Sam and Gardendiciples nor many Genesis decks for that matter have space for an actual defense.
If you want to counter the meta defense, you need to a. stop soul gen b. protect souls from opponents c. Kill KoT.
Ultimately anti-meta isn't found so much in the offense as it is the the defense.
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Phillip and Bart Wreck meta defenses.
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Ultimately anti-meta isn't found so much in the offense as it is the the defense.
+1. Jake + Captain should take care of business except for Plot, but that's what CoF is for.
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Phillip and Bart Wreck meta defenses.
Except for the Plot, but there's still ANC and HT.
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I Don't have that much of an issue w/ that, I have the most trouble at taking out the Opponents Good half. So any suggestions to take out the main offenses? Like what would be the best suggestion for a strong defense?
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Like what would be the best suggestion for a strong defense?
Syrians Trust me I'm a Republican, and by the way stop squinting at this text.
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Syrians Trust me I'm a Republican, and by the way stop squinting at this text.
lol. You'd probably be better off with Emperors.
Israelite Kings with GoS are great, but I don't know if mono brown is strong enough.
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Like what would be the best suggestion for a strong defense?
Syrians Trust me I'm a Republican, and by the way stop squinting at this text.
Yeah you could squint but copy paste is so much easier.
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Are they Capture-based set?
And can they take out Sites and Fortresses?
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Sure. They've got Syrian Victory (Ki).
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What about Site/Fort Destruction?
Also, If I was to stay w/ Romans, would Mocking Soldier be a good addition? I could play Romans destroy Jerus and Plot off of him (If I wanted to add Plot)