Author Topic: Laver Rave (Read 4956 times)

Red Warrior · « **on:** November 09, 2011, 12:03:22 AM »

"The Cheat... we had that switch installed so you could turn the lights on and off, not throw ~~light switch~~ laver raves"
- Strong Bad

The idea of Laver+Gates as a cycling tool is obviously the main engine of the deck. With Character heavy Z Temple offense, I hope to be able to keep moving and throwing heroes at my opponents while they take time to set up combos.

Heroes (9)
Zerubbabel
Haggai
Phineas
Joshua the High Priest
Joiakim, Son of Joshua
Eliashib the High Priest
Joiada, Son of Eliashib
Jonathan, Son of Joiada
Jaddua, Son of Jonathan

Good Enhancements (6)
Zeal for the Lord
Jehoida's Strength
Holy Unto The Lord
Filling Zerubbabel's Temple
Pentecost
Feast of Trumpets

Evil Characters (10)
Seven Sons of Sceva
Gomer
Evil Spawn
~~Legion~~ (_______)
Trembling Demon
Wandering Spirit
Spirit of Temptation
Fallen Angel
King of Tyrus
Prince of This World

Evil Enhancements (4)
Worshiping Demons
Suicidal Swine Stampede
Destructive Sin
Deafening Spirit

Fortresses (2)
Zerubbabel's Temple
Gates of Hell

Art/Cov/Curse (7)
The Bronze Laver
Holy of Holies
Crown of Thorns
Chariot of Fire
Captured Ark
Covenant with Phinehas
Covenant with Levi

Sites (3)
Dragon Raid
Jericho
Mildewed House

Dominants ( 8 )
SoG
NJ
AotL
GoW
GoYS

CM
Brl
FA

Lost Souls (7)
Color Guard
Place Guard
Female only
NT only
*/4 or greater
Demon Shuffler
Exchanger

SomeKittens · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2011, 09:02:42 AM »

You've got too much offense for a Laver-based deck.

Gabe · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2011, 09:18:30 AM »

I had a lot of fun playing a Laver based orange defense in 2010. That deck took 4th at Nationals that year. I paired it with white instead of teal, but here's what the defense looked like.

The Bronze Laver
The Gates of Hell
Seven Sons of Sceva
King of Tyrus
Prince of this World
Prince of the Air
The Thief
Fallen Angel
Evil Spawn
Wandering Spirit
Spirit of Temptation
Trembling Demon
Deafening Spirit
Worshipping Demons

Having played many teal offenses over the years, I can tell you it's always a mistake not to include Phinehas, son of Eleazar and Zeal for the Lord.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2011, 10:29:00 AM »

Thanks for the advice Gabe, always appreciated!

I have had Evil Spawn in and out like 30 times so I will lock him in this time.
I had Gomer and Menny to continue a chain from Spirit of Temptation, but do you think it's worth having two none-GoH-able characters in the defense?

The offense started out as a "theme deck" for when we did our playgroup devos over Ezra and Nehemiah, so I had turned a blind eye to priests outside of the post-exilic period, I probably need to fix. Thanks again!

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2011, 10:31:20 AM »

Evil Spawn's great, he's the play-next for demons, and combos well with Laver. Gomer and Manny are nice, because they can go under with Laver, and then be pulled out with Evil Spawn.

Gabe · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2011, 10:45:13 AM »

I like how Evil Spawn combos with Laver, especially where Worshiping Demons is concerned. Band to get your numbers high and then end the battle.

That's the ideal and you obviously won't pull it off every game.

The defense I posted was geared toward the meta of 2010 which was mostly TGT speed offenses. Although those decks are still viable in this meta it has changed quite a bit. Having not played an orange defense against things like Sam-I-Am and the new style of Genesis decks it's hard for me to say what should be different or whether or not that additional banding is a good or bad thing.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2011, 10:49:22 AM »

Agreed Kittens, I love Spawn, but usually in a "fun deck" where I actually have kill cards to play on him. In this deck Worshiping Demons and SSS are still worth it, but problem with putting Gomer under with SoTemtation is that I usually can't link back to Spawn to get her out... should I leave King Manasseh in? Hmmsss...

Survey for anyone willing to contribute:

1) Is Trembling Demon worth it with no HoH? I would usually say no, but Wandering Spirit changes things a little...

2) Overall opinion of Legions? is it worth having more than 1? All of them? Any of them?...

Red Wing · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:00:32 AM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on November 09, 2011, 10:49:22 AM

Agreed Kittens, I love Spawn, but usually in a "fun deck" where I actually have kill cards to play on him. In this deck Worshiping Demons and SSS are still worth it, but problem with putting Gomer under with SoTemtation is that I usually can't link back to Spawn to get her out... should I leave King Manasseh in? Hmmsss...

Survey for anyone willing to contribute:

1) Is Trembling Demon worth it with no HoH? I would usually say no, but Wandering Spirit changes things a little...

2) Overall opinion of Legions? is it worth having more than 1? All of them? Any of them?...

I'd use Trembling Demon & take Legion for HoH. I must admit I've never used Legions, but I doubt just one will help very much.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:09:33 AM »

Legion+SSS vs. TSA or a FBTN banding chain has saved me several times.

Red Wing · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:11:15 AM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on November 09, 2011, 11:09:33 AM

Legion+SSS vs. TSA or a FBTN banding chain has saved me several times.

but HoH alone stops FBTN.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:20:53 AM »

Right, I understand your point on that Red Wing, and you are correct it makes a pretty good swap out (one anti-FBTN combo for another). The only thing is that HoH requires me to tip off whether or not I plan to block with KoT to my opponent. It's probably worth the cost.

My friend Zach has often attacked me with Jacob+random enhancement when my HoH is up just because he knows putting an enhancement into battle will shoot my Trembling Demon (that I, quite obvious, want to block with) while also knowing I wont be blocking with KoT.

So basically I'm not disagreeing, in fact I'll probably go back to HoH as I reconsider the defense, but there are disadvantages... as well as advantages to Legion+SSS. Thanks for the input Red Wing, I love getting discussion rolling!

Red Wing · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:25:11 AM »

HoH can also be held in Z-Temple.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2011, 01:36:32 PM »

HoH (in ZTemple) + CoT (in artifact pile) + WS + Trembling Spirit can be formidable.

browarod · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2011, 02:37:51 PM »

I'm wondering why you don't have Book of the Covenant. It gives you the ability to have both your Covenants active at the same time AND it can go in Z's Temple.

Red Wing · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2011, 02:51:31 PM »

Quote from: browarod on November 09, 2011, 02:37:51 PM

I'm wondering why you don't have Book of the Covenant. It gives you the ability to have both your Covenants active at the same time AND it can go in Z's Temple.

Probably because he already has a lot of arts & this deck relies a lot on Laver which will probably be in Z-Temple most of the time.

browarod · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2011, 04:22:25 PM »

Quote from: Red Wing on November 09, 2011, 02:51:31 PM

Quote from: browarod on November 09, 2011, 02:37:51 PM
I'm wondering why you don't have Book of the Covenant. It gives you the ability to have both your Covenants active at the same time AND it can go in Z's Temple.
Probably because he already has a lot of arts & this deck relies a lot on Laver which will probably be in Z-Temple most of the time.

So? Having both Covenants active at the same time just makes his offense that much better, regardless of what artifact is active where. He could take out Captured Ark or Jerusalem Tower for it.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2011, 04:43:10 PM »

JT won't really be that great. I'd go with browarod and switch it for BotC.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2011, 05:03:34 PM »

Scott,
I used to have Cov' Keeper, BotC, and Cymbals of the Levites (Zerubbabel pulls it out), but when I started focusing the deck down toward Teal I found that I never needed to have both Cov w/ Phineas and Cov w/ Levi up at the same time. I rarely need Cov w/ Levi anyway.

Kittens,
Since CoT kills Trembling Demon, wouldn't I have to rely on Wandering Spirit pulling him from the bottom? (i.e. opponent shuffles by deck or I search my deck, combo is over) or is there a loophole I'm missing.

Captured ark is in there (rather than DoN) as a trigger for Worshipping Demons if necessary.

I wanted JT as a deck thinning card (searched out by Eliashib and Zerubabbel) and a deterrent for opponent's to shuffle my deck (messing with my orange arrangement). Unfortunately JT doesn't actually KEEP them from shuffling my deck. So maybe pull out the "search" themes and put in Nazareth? (Dangerous?)

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2011, 05:33:36 PM »

Yeah, the point is to recur Trembling with Wandering Spirit. Just don't search if you get it set up, because it is extremely tough to beat. Not a lot of characters will get initative against your 3/1 Wandering Spirit, and even if they do Trembling will already be discarded.

browarod · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2011, 05:58:29 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on November 09, 2011, 05:03:34 PM

Scott,
I used to have Cov' Keeper, BotC, and Cymbals of the Levites (Zerubbabel pulls it out), but when I started focusing the deck down toward Teal I found that I never needed to have both Cov w/ Phineas and Cov w/ Levi up at the same time. I rarely need Cov w/ Levi anyway.

Fair enough.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2011, 07:36:55 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on November 09, 2011, 05:33:36 PM

Yeah, the point is to recur Trembling with Wandering Spirit. Just don't search if you get it set up, because it is extremely tough to beat. Not a lot of characters will get initative against your 3/1 Wandering Spirit, and even if they do Trembling will already be discarded.

Pretty much that. It's tough to pull of, but even harder to get past. It can be a game changer.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2011, 11:38:37 AM »

Awesome advice from everybody on the defense, my gears are turning with a lot more to consider now. Thanks!

Can I get some more feedback on the offense and neutral cards?
I took out Pentecost, but I'm not confident in that decision. It just seemed like a wasted space with the filtering of Laver/Feast of Trumpets with Gates of Hell. I hate to take out Zerubbabel just because he is so much part of the theme (and fun to use, try him in ZT deck some time!)

Dragon Raid is in there for Site Access if Cov w/ Levi is killed, but it has a double-edge... Since Orange is hardly an all-star cast of impenetrable characters, I had the "place-a-guard" lost soul with Dragon raid in there so that when (not if) my opponent kills Prince, I an add another demon from Dragon Raid.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2011, 11:44:15 AM »

Pentecost is a great speed card, and will help your deck. Burning Incense is a great Teal battlewinner, but Holy Unto the Lord might cause problems with your defense.

Gabe · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2011, 11:48:33 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on November 10, 2011, 11:44:15 AM

... but Holy Unto the Lord might cause problems with your defense.

That's what the color guard LS and the teal Sites are for.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2011, 11:52:34 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on November 10, 2011, 11:48:33 AM

Quote from: SomeKittens on November 10, 2011, 11:44:15 AM
... but Holy Unto the Lord might cause problems with your defense.

That's what the color guard LS and the teal Sites are for.

Ok, so that gets one EC out of the way. What about his enhancements and doms?

Gabe · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2011, 12:27:34 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on November 10, 2011, 11:52:34 AM

Ok, so that gets one EC out of the way. What about his enhancements and doms?

EE's and EDoms make up 7 cards of his deck. If he hasn't played them already, or Lavered them, he might lose 1, or two tops. Holy unto the Lord is an amazing CBI battle winner that's underrated because it takes some work to avoid getting hurt by it. This deck can do that well.

Red Wing · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2011, 12:40:47 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on November 10, 2011, 11:38:37 AM

Awesome advice from everybody on the defense, my gears are turning with a lot more to consider now. Thanks!

Can I get some more feedback on the offense and neutral cards?
I took out Pentecost, but I'm not confident in that decision. It just seemed like a wasted space with the filtering of Laver/Feast of Trumpets with Gates of Hell. I hate to take out Zerubbabel just because he is so much part of the theme (and fun to use, try him in ZT deck some time!)

Dragon Raid is in there for Site Access if Cov w/ Levi is killed, but it has a double-edge... Since Orange is hardly an all-star cast of impenetrable characters, I had the "place-a-guard" lost soul with Dragon raid in there so that when (not if) my opponent kills Prince, I an add another demon from Dragon Raid.

I'd take out J- Tower for Pentecost. Set-aside for one turn and then draw 3 is to good to pass up. It can also be recurred with Joiada. Trumpet Blast is the best teal battle winner other than Zeal and Holy unto the Lord IMHO. Ezra's Journey could probably go for that. Since you don't have Harvest Time or much other Soul generation, the Revealer would probably be better than the */4 LS. Even if it doesn't give you Lost Soul to rescue, you can still bury FAs & SoGs with it.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2011, 01:06:22 PM »

Yeah I'll try a few games without JT, I really like being able to "filter" my deck (it's kind of a personal playing style, but since I haven't won a major tournament for like 5 years... lol). In other words, when I attack with Zerubabbel to pull out Joiakim to band to Eliashib in territory to search deck for JT, that's two less cards in my deck while sifting with Laver. Oh well, when I draw it pre-search it's a wasted card.

Our playgroup has been testing the Opp Rescue Rule for a month now... I'm getting really attached to the */4+ lol. It can be a game changer to have NT only, */4, and Demon Shuffler out. They don't want to rescue because you'll shuffle the one they can SoG, so they wait for another LS draw... then I shut Laver down. That's why I used to have Search.
I'll consider Revealer though, and my LS generation issues, great suggestion!

Red Wing · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2011, 01:41:42 PM »

Zerubabbel can still search for a few of your cards even without J-Tower. Good point about the rescue rule change, */4 will be a lot better if that rule is ever instituted. Considering how important your Tabernacle Arts are, you might also consider Eli the Priest instead of Zerubabbel. There is a Teal version & a gold one. He's a Judge so you could Eli's Sound Advice, which is another extremely useful Teal enhancement.

Master Q · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2011, 01:49:54 PM »

No U&T? No Mayhem?

Red Warrior · « **Reply #30 on:** November 10, 2011, 02:29:07 PM »

Master Q
Nice! This why I post decks online (hits... head... against... wall). Thanks, I'll get U&T in there somehow...
I need to steal it out of my Taberninjas deck (Red/Teal). I'm not a "Mayhem in every deck" man myself. I have one in my Abom deck for obvious reasons, but that's it.

As far as Eli, another non-ZT hero is hard to add, especially from Ithamar. Eli's sound advice does make it tempting though...

Red Warrior · « **Reply #31 on:** November 10, 2011, 03:39:23 PM »

Should I go more "artifact theme" and pull GoyS for Lampy and Eli? Pros, Cons?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #32 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:09:47 PM »

Too many arts can clog up a deck. I don't like to have more than 4/5.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #33 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:22:08 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on November 10, 2011, 04:09:47 PM

Too many arts can clog up a deck. I don't like to have more than 4/5.

I tend to agree. My favorite decks usually have Writ, Charms or GiC, CoF and 1 theme artifact.
The fact is drawing an openning hand filled with artifacts can seal your loss.

browarod · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:43:47 PM »

My multiplayer deck has, I think, 6 artifacts, and that's the most I ever put in a deck.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #35 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:38:08 PM »

Update:
I'm going to try running the deck this week without JT in it, so that has been removed from the forts.
I used the spot to add Holy of Holies.

I had Ezra's Journey in for theme reasons (and Zerubbabel search), but with Zeal added I ended up cutting Jordan Interrupted (for Pentecost) and then swapped Ezra's Journey for Jehoida's Strength.

Suggestions Wanted

1) What do you think of Silver Trumpets in this deck?

2) Legion doesn't really do anything for me... Taking a look at the demons I have, what would be the next pick for a character and why?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #36 on:** November 14, 2011, 09:59:16 AM »

1.) TST is only really useful with Ahemilek.

Red Wing · « **Reply #37 on:** November 14, 2011, 11:54:17 AM »

2. I'd use SWS or Demon behind the Idol. Seven Wicked Spirits can steal opponents ECs to help out your offense. Trembling Demon is great for Initiative (1/1) and can recur orange enhancements when you're decked, but he is discarded after battle unless you have an Idol up.

Also, what's crown of thorns for? I'd go with Writ instead.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #38 on:** November 14, 2011, 01:02:44 PM »

Quote from: Red Wing on November 14, 2011, 11:54:17 AM

Also, what's crown of thorns for? I'd go with Writ instead.

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on November 09, 2011, 05:33:36 PM

Yeah, the point is to recur Trembling with Wandering Spirit. Just don't search if you get it set up, because it is extremely tough to beat. Not a lot of characters will get initative against your 3/1 Wandering Spirit, and even if they do Trembling will already be discarded.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #39 on:** November 14, 2011, 01:07:59 PM »

*instaposted*
Crown of Thorns is to decrease opportunity for opponents to stop Wandering Spirit & Trembling Demon combo (make a 3/1 demon that protects LS from rescue).

HoH stops Trembling Demon's "built-in" negate, but being a 3/7 means that there is plenty of room for interrupts and negates on GEs. It also opens up a door for kill-types that Wandering Spirit doesn't bottom-deck against (Remove from Game, etc.)

Thanks for the input on the Orange ECs! I'll be thinking hard about filling this deck slot.

Red Warrior · « **Reply #40 on:** November 16, 2011, 01:00:59 AM »

Quote

Evil Characters (10)
Seven Sons of Sceva
Gomer
Evil Spawn
~~Legion~~ (_______)
Trembling Demon
Wandering Spirit
Spirit of Temptation
Fallen Angel
King of Tyrus
Prince of This World

Open Evil Character Slot Top Picks (in no particular order)
---Strong Demon
---Demon Behind the Idol
---Seven Wicked Spirits
---The Thief
---King Manasseh
Which one should I pick and why?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #41 on:** November 16, 2011, 09:37:18 AM »

SWS would be my top pick. He can steal any EC on the table.

Red Wing · « **Reply #42 on:** November 16, 2011, 10:58:13 AM »

Manny would be fun for his banding and auto-block capability, but SWS can steal any EC like kittens said, so he might be the better choice. Strong Demon could be nice for early blocks, but you already have KoT and PoTW for that. I'd go with SWS.

Gabe · « **Reply #43 on:** November 16, 2011, 11:13:20 AM »

The Thief. SWS is nice in T2 where people have to play defense, but too many people don't have enough defense worth stealing in T1. I've found SWS to be mostly ineffective in that format. The Thief on the other hand is large enough to block FBTN characters and win. The random discard will also win you a battle and even hit a Dom on occasion.

News:

Author Topic: Laver Rave (Read 4956 times)

browarod

browarod

Rawrlolsauce!

browarod

browarod