Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Professoralstad on June 14, 2013, 03:50:58 PM
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Since the likelihood of me playing in any T1 tournaments for the near future is pretty slim, I figured I'd share this deck idea with everyone else who is saying how crazy good this Foreign Wives character that everyone is going to be using. Feel free to take it, tweak it, or simply scoff at it as you wish.
Cards in Deck: 57
Lost Souls (8)
-Site Discard
-Revealer
-Exchanger
-NT Only
-Deck Discard
-Site Doubler
-Fool
-CBP
Sites (3)
-Hormah
-Caesarea Phillipi
-Golgotha
Artifacts (4)
-Stone Pillar at Bethel
-Household Idols
-Denarius
-Hidden Treasures
DAEs
-Seven Years of Plenty
Dominants (8)
-Son of God (I/J)
-New Jerusalem
-Angel of the Lord (G or J)
-Grapes of Wrath
-Christian Martyr
-Falling Away
-Mayhem
-Vain Philosophy
Covenants (1)
-I am Holy
Curses (2)
-Go into Captivity
-Captured Ark
Fortresses (1)
-Rome
Heroes (9)
-Joseph
-Eve
-Jacob
-Rachel
-Simeon
-Dan
-Zebulun
-Asher
-Abel
GEs (8)
-Reuben's Torn Clothes
-Cup of Wrath
-Job Overcomes
-Joseph Before Pharaoh
-Answer to Prayer
-Abraham's Descendant
-Jubilee
-Creation of the World
Evil Characters (7)
-Emperor Tiberius
-Emperor Galba
-Emperor Vitellius
-Mocking Soldier (J)
-Pontius Pilate
-Sabbath Breaker
-The Entrapping Pharisee
Evil Enhancements (6)
-Balaam's Disobedience
-Heavy Taxes
-Naaman's Chariot and Horses
-Sorrow of Mary
-Romans Destroy Jerusalem
-Gold Shield
Basically, the idea is hand control, as well as punishing your opponent for using Foreign Wives (which, if all the cool kids are right, will apply in every game ever). Firstly, your speediest card on offense is Seven Years of Plenty, which gets you just under the limit for FWs ability to kick in. Dan is also nice, as you can choose for him to draw 2 if you want to bait FW (which in some cases you will) or you can have them discard an evil card. Secondly: Job Overcomes. I hope I don't need to spell it out for you. Thirdly, Asher can recur pretty much as many Heroes as you'd like, in addition to a few battle nice battle winners. Fourthly, your defense isn't designed to be too hardy, but it should provide enough blocks to get your evil-clearing offense going. Fifthly, using Sorrow of Mary and Vain Philosophy in the same deck is brutal.
You do have to worry about Thaddeus, but that's why Cup of Wrath is there so you can play RDJ during the side battle. I'd like to fit in and anti-Nazareth card or two, but I'm not sure which would be most effective, or what to replace with it.
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Though I am new to the forums I have been playing Redemption since 98 and I have seen several cards come into the game that people have said will cause such a stir. And while I do concede that some of the cards have been very powerful there is always a way around it. It all becomes a matter of building your deck and just having fun. And this deck looks really cool. Thank you for posting it.
-forgiven1
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Though I am new to the forums I have been playing Redemption since 98 and I have seen several cards come into the game that people have said will cause such a stir. And while I do concede that some of the cards have been very powerful there is always a way around it. It all becomes a matter of building your deck and just having fun. And this deck looks really cool. Thank you for posting it.
-forgiven1
I'm glad to share it. I have been looking at Job Overcomes as a way to outmaneuver Foreign Wives since the playtesting stage, and between that, Eve, Asher, and RTC, I would say that FW might do more harm than good for your opponent.
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I know Creation of the World speeds the deck up a ton if you pull it off. But I never found it to be reliable enough considering that you only have 1 player who can play it, and it's not CBN, and you'd really rather play other GEs on him anyway. I'd put in Forgiveness of Joseph instead for another CBN battlewinner.
Also, I agree with you that the defense is "not too hardy", and would be concerned that this deck would lose too often to strong offenses.
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This deck seems like it needs it's own copy of Foreign Wives and Obedience of Noah to set up the play.
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I know Creation of the World speeds the deck up a ton if you pull it off. But I never found it to be reliable enough considering that you only have 1 player who can play it, and it's not CBN, and you'd really rather play other GEs on him anyway. I'd put in Forgiveness of Joseph instead for another CBN battlewinner.
Also, I agree with you that the defense is "not too hardy", and would be concerned that this deck would lose too often to strong offenses.
There are two Heroes that can use CotW (Joe and Abel), and most often they will be using Hidden Treasures to play it. Note also that Rachel can tutor Joseph, and Answer to Prayer can tutor CotW. I know it's probably better as a T2 card, but I think it could work in T1. Only testing will tell. Forgiveness is nice, and I would consider replacing it if CotW proves to be unhelpful.
Do you have any recommendations to strengthen the defense?
This deck seems like it needs it's own copy of Foreign Wives and Obedience of Noah to set up the play.
Since my copy of Foreign Wives wouldn't count as brigades my opponent has in play, Job Overcomes wouldn't work like that. OoN would definitely be a good add though.
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You might consider adding Seven Years of Famine, that's another good hand control card. Emperor Otho and scattered might be good things to consider adding too as FBTNB is a difficult matchup for the deck.
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7 years of Famine + Denarius = win.
I like it. Scattered definitely should be in there but I'm not sure for what. As far as countering Nazzy goes, I could see Sound the Trumpet going into your deck. It's not Genesis but it gets the job done better than Jacob's Dream. Once again, no idea what to take out but it's a card suggestion.
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One of the "cool kids" sees he is right by your logic you have to build a deck around stopping one card
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One of the "cool kids" sees he is right by your logic you have to build a deck around stopping one card
If he was doing that, he'd be playing King David.
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One of the "cool kids" sees he is right by your logic you have to build a deck around stopping one card
If he was doing that, he'd be playing King David.
My point is not off; king David or not
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I think he's taking advantage of the fact that the meta is moving towards large scale play of a card, whether or not that card is actually good
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Do you have any recommendations to strengthen the defense?
I think you've got pretty much the best emperor stuff there. I'm just not a fan of emperor's in general. That being said, I'd probably put in Scattered instead of Sorrow of Mary. The effect is basically the same, but Scattered will be CBN when you want to play it.
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I used the gray and yellow that sent all humans back. it worked nicely.
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Do you have any recommendations to strengthen the defense?
I think you've got pretty much the best emperor stuff there. I'm just not a fan of emperor's in general. That being said, I'd probably put in Scattered instead of Sorrow of Mary. The effect is basically the same, but Scattered will be CBN when you want to play it.
Can you explain this a little more? Because unless I'm misunderstanding something you don't make much sense. those two cards do completely different things.
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Do you have any recommendations to strengthen the defense?
I think you've got pretty much the best emperor stuff there. I'm just not a fan of emperor's in general. That being said, I'd probably put in Scattered instead of Sorrow of Mary. The effect is basically the same, but Scattered will be CBN when you want to play it.
Can you explain this a little more? Because unless I'm misunderstanding something you don't make much sense. those two cards do completely different things.
Sorrow of Mary is also a Gold EE that discards all but one Hero in battle; I believe that is what he thought it was.
In regards to the deck, I'd consider switching SYOP with SYOF as that helps what you are trying to do. But it would also hurt you a bit so I guess it would require some testing.
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I considered SYoF, but it stops RTC and Zebulun, as well as Chariot and Sabbath Breaker, and it will often make me discard as well. I might do some testing with it though.
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I would assume Jordan is using the grey sorrow of mary that can underdeck a good card from your opponent's hand. Scattered and Sorrow both underdeck cards but otherwise they are completely different.
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One thing I like about both Genesis and Romans is that they have enough solid card options that there are multiple ways to build a deck with them. I too build a "Tim Mierzejewski" deck after the new cards were released and found that it's extremely powerful. Unless my memory fails me, it's still undefeated after several games. The highlight was playing against Martin at NC Regionals in a pick up game and beating his FBTNb deck. Beating that deck is always an accomplishment, but beating it when Martin is behind the wheel is a rare feat that most of us seldom experience. In Martin's defense he did not have any of the new cards in his deck, not that there's much to add to it.
While our decks have several cards in common, I've taken a bit of a different approach. I'm going under the assumption that a lot of my opponents will have Nazareth so I built in a way that it won't hurt me much. That actually allows me to include it, in addition to the Sites you already run. That means I'm not using Answer to Prayer, Hidden Treasures or Stone Pillar. Because Nazareth (and sometimes the other Sites too) can be such a silver bullet, I'm using Well Reopened to grab the best of the bunch. Nazareth also works extremely well with all the underdecking this deck can do, since the underdecked cards usually don't get shuffled.
I am using Denarius but the verdict is still out on that card. There have been games where it's been really good and other games where it didn't really do anything. I didn't include Rome and I haven't missed it yet. You're really only using it for first strike and potentially thinning a card from your deck. It's probably not doing enough and would be better off as a Scattered or something else.
I've opted for the Seven Years of Famine and been really happy with it. I've rarely had to discard to it, but it's made several of my opponents miserable. Zebulun is a late game play so it hasn't really hindered him. RTC is CBN on Joe and Ben so that's been OK too. The last time I saw 7YoF played was when you brutalized me way back during testing. Man, I hated that card! It's a lot funner being on the "giving" end. :)
My defense is a little bigger than yours, both in ECs and EEs. I focused more on the pure hand control and don't really draw much myself. Every single character on my defense will potentially take a card from hand. I'm not using the draw ECs. Instead, I have Emperor Augustus, King Menahem and Spirit of Temptation. I really like banding SoT to one of my other characters to hit 2 cards. Since I'm using Hypocrite's Proselyte, I even have a battle winner I can use on him in a pinch. It also underdecks AUtO. I've found that he can be slightly annoying sometimes. ;)
Those are the key differences in our deck lists. I hope everyone enjoys playing with this Genesis/Rome. I expect it's going to be around quite a bit in the coming year!
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Thanks for the insight, Gabe. I still have yet to do any testing with it, so I am not sure how everything works. I am considering Jacob's Dream as an anti-Naz solution, but I would also consider your idea of taking out the searches and using it myself.
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Sorrow of Mary is also a Gold EE that discards all but one Hero in battle; I believe that is what he thought it was.
Yep, that's the one I was thinking of, and I saw both of them as EEs dealing with banding attacks. Sorry about the confusion.
Overall, I like Gabe's suggestions a lot with one exception. Playing a defensive heavy deck that doesn't draw often seems to falter against a really well build speed deck in good hands. Even though it's defense heavy, it can't draw enough of that defense fast enough to keep up with the speed deck.
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Sorrow of Mary is also a Gold EE that discards all but one Hero in battle; I believe that is what he thought it was.
Yep, that's the one I was thinking of, and I saw both of them as EEs dealing with banding attacks. Sorry about the confusion.
Overall, I like Gabe's suggestions a lot with one exception. Playing a defensive heavy deck that doesn't draw often seems to falter against a really well build speed deck in good hands. Even though it's defense heavy, it can't draw enough of that defense fast enough to keep up with the speed deck.
I don't think it's just the defensive heavy deck that falters.
I'd think with this deck you use controlled damage a lot. Early game you might give up a soul, but you have to make them pay for it with 3-4 cards underdeck. Eventually, you'd hopefully be able to "block" by not even being attacked.
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Thanks for the insight, Gabe. I still have yet to do any testing with it, so I am not sure how everything works. I am considering Jacob's Dream as an anti-Naz solution, but I would also consider your idea of taking out the searches and using it myself.
Jacob's Dream wouldn't really solve your problem at all because it adds it to your territory instead of theirs so you still can't search. That's why I suggested Sound the Trumpet.
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Ah, it seems you are correct. I'd hate to have to use a non-Genesis enhancement that will be wasted space much of the time, but Naz still is a problem.