Author Topic: Grapes? DD? Heroless LAUGHS at such triffles. (Read 5701 times)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **on:** January 25, 2010, 02:32:57 PM »

Cards in deck: 70
Lost Souls: 9
   Lost Soul (anti-ignore)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (female only)
   Lost Soul (N.T. only)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (site guard)
   Lost Soul (site remove)
   Lost Soul (Speed Bump)
   Lost Soul (Wanderer)

Lamb Dominants: 4
   Angel of the Lord
   Grapes of Wrath
   New Jerusalem
   Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 3
   Christian Martyr
   Destruction of Nehushtan
   Falling Away

Fortresses: 5
   Headquarters at Riblah
   Obadiah's Caves
   Solomon's Temple
   Storehouse
   Wall of Protection

Multi-Color Sites: 1
   Dragon Raid

Artifacts: 6
   Asherah Pole
   Golden Calf
   Holy Grail
   Household Idols
   Lampstand of the Sanctuary
   Magic Charms

White Covenant Cards: 2
   Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
   Unknown Nation (Yellow)

Gold Covenant Cards: 1
   I am Healing

Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 3
   Jordan Interrupted (Teal)
   Trumpet Blast (Teal)
   Zeal for the Lord (Teal)

Silver Hero Enhancements: 1
   Protection of Angels

Green Hero Enhancements: 1
   Backward Shadow

Purple Hero Enhancements: 2
   Authority of Christ
   Reach of Desperation

Crimson Evil Characters: 13
   Ananias
   Archers of Kedar
   Arioch
   Babylonian Forces
   Gomer
   Judas Iscariot
   King Zimri
   Nebuchadnezzar
   Nebushasban
   Nergalsharezer
   Red Dragon
   Sapphira
   The Imperial Guard
Astrologers

Gray Evil Characters: 1
   Saul/Paul

Crimson Evil Enhancements: 16
   Axe
   Belshazzar's Banquet
   Carried into Exile
   Christian Suing Another
   Coliseum Lions
   Deceit of Sapphira
   Desecrate the Temple
   Dream
   Great Image
   Head of Gold
   Imitating Evil
   Large Tree
   Midianite Attack
   Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
   Set Fire
   Swift Horses

Gray Evil Enhancements: 1
   Healing of Naaman
Well?

Red · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:35:04 PM »

i could play agienst this deck and win or lose and it would be 5-4 if you take my challenge pm me.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:43:01 PM »

XD good luck with that RED

deck looks great

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:45:35 PM »

Why backward shadow??? I'd rather use something like leaves for healing instead to increase his numbers because Saul/Paul can't be poisoned anyways...

Other than that, good

New Raven BR · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:47:16 PM »

RC, cause he's RR, he's Karazay enough to make insane decks like this

New Raven BR · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:58:02 PM »

says you RED
you don't know RR like i do.
i noticed the first mistake you made while posting on this thread was saying you can beat it.
i made that same mistake also when i was newer to the game and i regret understimating RR and his heroless decks.
i advise you RED to not underestimate RR like i once did.
just because he doesn't have single brigaded heroes doesn't mean he can't win without them

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:00:22 PM »

Quote from: redemptioncousin on January 25, 2010, 02:45:35 PM

Why backward shadow??? I'd rather use something like leaves for healing instead to increase his numbers because Saul/Paul can't be poisoned anyways...

Other than that, good

Two reasons: 1 that was the ORIGINAL heal card for heroless. Two Diseases can still hit him.

Master KChief · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:01:05 PM »

uh, no writ?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:02:13 PM »

RED, your comments are not helpful on this thread. If you think you can beat the master of heroless, I (and he) urge you to try. Unless you have helpful comments about the deck, please stop posting.

RR, I like the use of no built on the rock. However, capture could really hurt you. Also, why the temple? You have no temple arts. I would take the temple out and add the CBN I Am Redemption. Finally, why Dragon Raid? Hidden Treasures might be helpful too to play AOC and PoA.

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 25, 2010, 03:00:22 PM

Quote from: redemptioncousin on January 25, 2010, 02:45:35 PM
Why backward shadow??? I'd rather use something like leaves for healing instead to increase his numbers because Saul/Paul can't be poisoned anyways...

Other than that, good

Two reasons: 1 that was the ORIGINAL heal card for heroless. Two Diseases can still hit him.

Only if his ability is negated. I guess it's useful to a degree, but so are numbers...

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:07:14 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 25, 2010, 02:32:57 PM

   Lost Soul (site guard)
   Lost Soul (site guard)
   Nebuchadnezzar
   Nebuchadnezzar

I can beat this deck every single time as well, seeing as its illegal.

Master KChief · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:08:41 PM »

obadiahs caves protects from capture.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:09:40 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 25, 2010, 03:07:14 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 25, 2010, 02:32:57 PM
   Lost Soul (site guard)
   Lost Soul (site guard)
   Nebuchadnezzar
   Nebuchadnezzar

I can beat this deck every single time as well, seeing as its illegal.

O_o what are you talking aboot? *fixes deck so no one noticed* DOH!

Okay my brain was GONE Lampstand ADDED!

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:12:11 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 25, 2010, 03:01:05 PM

uh, no writ?

what he said.

also, why doesnt grapes hurt you?

Red · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:17:47 PM »

why is magic charms in there and i probly can't beat it (switch magic charms out for writ)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:18:20 PM »

Simple, the main issue with grapes before is simply that it took away my set aside protection from capture. And MCharms = writ X 2. STUPID multicolor ecs! Astrologers IS in there.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:18:36 PM »

I don't know man...I'm not sure I could pull off a Heroless without a Urim and Thummim (which is why I always used black/grey for Heroless). I would maybe take out Arioch and put in King Merodach-Baladan in there (so at least he can look at your opponent's hand) when you block. Nothing is worse than a random surprise from someone who figures out your deck.

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 25, 2010, 03:02:13 PM

RR, I like the use of no built on the rock. However, capture could really hurt you.

I believe that's what Obadiah's Caves is for, since Paul is a green brigade prophet. But I am Redemption may help if Caves is discarded/negated somehow.

Quote

Also, why the temple? You have no temple arts. I would take the temple out and add the CBN I Am Redemption.

Yeah I can't figure that out either. The only thought I has is that it was a relic from a time when APole could go in the Temple...

Quote

Finally, why Dragon Raid? Hidden Treasures might be helpful too to play AOC and PoA.

DR is for Site Guard. Though I would maybe use NJ or Promised Land for that purpose, in case you need to convert a different hero for some reason and might need it for site access. You shouldn't need more than one or two rescues with an access site, and DR is stopped cold by Pergamum.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:22:54 PM »

oops, I thought Caves dealt with removal, which it does too. Now with Lampstand added, the temple is more needed.

Master KChief · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:23:19 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 25, 2010, 03:18:20 PM

Simple, the main issue with grapes before is simply that it took away my set aside protection from capture. And MCharms = writ X 2. STUPID multicolor ecs! Astrologers IS in there.

but grapes still resets paul back into saul, i think thats the bigger issue here.

also, mc + writ = 3 writs. i see no reason to not use it, especially if you've included the inferior gic over it.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2010, 04:29:59 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 25, 2010, 03:23:19 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 25, 2010, 03:18:20 PM
Simple, the main issue with grapes before is simply that it took away my set aside protection from capture. And MCharms = writ X 2. STUPID multicolor ecs! Astrologers IS in there.
but grapes still resets paul back into saul, i think thats the bigger issue here.

also, mc + writ = 3 writs. i see no reason to not use it, especially if you've included the inferior gic over it.

Any hero<human hero? O_o;

If they reset s/p all it takes is using HG again or Hg for the first time. Yes it buys them a block but if my defense has done its job it won't matter.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2010, 05:26:35 PM »

Even though Backward Shadow has sentimental value to you, I would switch it with Purifying the Unclean. That way you can convert your other EC to gray and have majority of your GE's being teal plus your heal card. If you lose Paul and have to convert someone else you want it to be teal probably and you'll want a teal healing card.

Master KChief · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:05:45 PM »

gic is nowhere on the power level of writ, even if it is less restrictive. possibly the best defensive card in the game.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:13:07 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 25, 2010, 08:05:45 PM

gic is nowhere on the power level of writ, even if it is less restrictive. possibly the best defensive card in the game.

I agree with that in general, but when a deck has 8 WC EC's, I'd go with GiC in this case. Even if you just have Zimri, you can still block and use GiC and keep his ability for later. The one benefit of Writ over GiC is that you don't need a WC EC available to use it; I have a feeling that won't be the case very often with this deck. The ability to capture TSA/Captain > the ability to capture without an EC in battle, in this case, IMO.

Master KChief · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:15:45 PM »

if my decks could fit it, then i play with both gic and writ. but if i only have 1 card slot for either, i'd still take writ over gic anyday, even if i have a plethora of wc ec's. the fact you dont need an ec in battle and still win the battle is pretty much unparalleled...except by dominants, of course. shoot, writ might as well be a dominant in my book.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:22:16 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 25, 2010, 08:15:45 PM

if my decks could fit it, then i play with both gic and writ. but if i only have 1 card slot for either, i'd still take writ over gic anyday, even if i have a plethora of wc ec's. the fact you dont need an ec in battle and still win the battle is pretty much unparalleled...except by dominants, of course. shoot, writ might as well be a dominant in my book.

I agree, I used both in my Heroless. But the other advantage to GiC is, if your opponent is using a Teal deck, or another offense that can't be captured, then you can use GiC for Zimri fodder, or to help out Ananias and Sapphira. Writ is completely useless against that type of offense, unless you get rid of their protection somehow.

Master KChief · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:25:25 PM »

useless artifacts in my art pile usually become uzzah food. even so, maybe in 1% of my games have i never been able to make use of my writ. also, writ/gic/charms is awesomesauce with the tartan.

Sean · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2010, 09:08:03 PM »

No GoYS?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2010, 09:12:22 PM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on January 25, 2010, 05:26:35 PM

Even though Backward Shadow has sentimental value to you, I would switch it with Purifying the Unclean. That way you can convert your other EC to gray and have majority of your GE's being teal plus your heal card. If you lose Paul and have to convert someone else you want it to be teal probably and you'll want a teal healing card.

I'd most likely convert to purple most of the time.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:32:43 PM »

wooooow....no brass serpant?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:22:44 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 25, 2010, 08:13:07 PM

Even if you just have Zimri, you can still block and use GiC and keep his ability for later.

Zimri says to discard him after battle, so I don't think that's the best idea.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #29 on:** January 26, 2010, 01:52:48 AM »

What happens if Caves gets destroyed? Any capture will just defeat you.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #30 on:** January 26, 2010, 07:44:30 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 26, 2010, 01:52:48 AM

What happens if Caves gets destroyed? Any capture will just defeat you.

I was thinking about that, but I wasn't sure if I was being paranoid or not.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #31 on:** January 26, 2010, 08:42:31 AM »

Just throw ZT or TGT in there and they'll immediately be distracted by that, and kill it instead of Caves.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #32 on:** January 26, 2010, 09:27:26 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 26, 2010, 08:42:31 AM

Just throw ZT or TGT in there and they'll immediately be distracted by that, and kill it instead of Caves.

XD Tempting.

Updated

Cards in deck: 70
Lost Souls: 9
   Lost Soul (anti-ignore)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (female only)
   Lost Soul (N.T. only)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (site guard)
   Lost Soul (site remove)
   Lost Soul (Speed Bump)
   Lost Soul (Wanderer)

Lamb Dominants: 4
   Angel of the Lord
   Grapes of Wrath
   New Jerusalem
   Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 3
   Christian Martyr
   Destruction of Nehushtan
   Falling Away

Fortresses: 5
   Headquarters at Riblah
   Obadiah's Caves
   Solomon's Temple
   Storehouse
   Wall of Protection

Multi-Color Sites: 1
   Dragon Raid

Artifacts: 6
   Asherah Pole
   Golden Calf
   Holy Grail
   Household Idols
   Lampstand of the Sanctuary
   Magic Charms

White Covenant Cards: 2
   Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
   Unknown Nation (Yellow)

Gold Covenant Cards: 2
   I am Healing
   I am Redemption

Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 3
   Jordan Interrupted (Teal)
   Trumpet Blast (Teal)
   Zeal for the Lord (Teal)

Silver Hero Enhancements: 1
   Protection of Angels

Green Hero Enhancements: 1
   Backward Shadow

Purple Hero Enhancements: 2
   Authority of Christ
   Reach of Desperation

Crimson Evil Characters: 12
   Ananias
   Archers of Kedar
   Arioch
   Babylonian Forces
   Gomer
   Judas Iscariot
   King Zimri
   Nebuchadnezzar
   Nebushasban
   Nergalsharezer
   Red Dragon
   Sapphira
   Astrologers

Gray Evil Characters: 1
   Saul/Paul

Crimson Evil Enhancements: 16
   Axe
   Belshazzar's Banquet
   Carried into Exile
   Christian Suing Another
   Coliseum Lions
   Deceit of Sapphira
   Desecrate the Temple
   Dream
   Great Image
   Head of Gold
   Imitating Evil
   Large Tree
   Midianite Attack
   Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
   Set Fire
   Swift Horses

Gray Evil Enhancements: 1
   Healing of Naaman

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #33 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:11:35 PM »

I'm not sure if IaR is enough because it doesn't protect from capture, leaving you open to capture/rescue and capture/shuffle, either of which will end your offense. Covenant with Palestine may work better.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #34 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:20:15 PM »

If you use CwP, then you might as well use Blue Tassels, which stops CBN captures.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #35 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:24:43 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 26, 2010, 12:11:35 PM

I'm not sure if IaR is enough because it doesn't protect from capture, leaving you open to capture/rescue and capture/shuffle, either of which will end your offense. Covenant with Palestine may work better.

Hm, good points. Though capture/rescue only can happen vs sog nj and most people have used those by the time they deck out.

Master KChief · « **Reply #36 on:** January 26, 2010, 01:10:34 PM »

i wouldnt risk it with a one-trick-pony offense. blue tassels is the way to go.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #37 on:** January 26, 2010, 01:43:30 PM »

I suggest removing Falling Away. It seems like most games your opponents would get GoYS faster than you get FA (since their deck is probably smaller and faster). It also seems like you won't often be giving away a LS to take back anyway. It also seems that often you will have LotS up, and be unable to play FA for that reason too.

All of these reasons seem to say that another card would get used more often.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #38 on:** January 26, 2010, 02:31:31 PM »

Unless you can find a card that you feel you really need to replace Falling Away, I would disagree with the other Prof on this one. In my experience with Heroless, the goal is to wear down their offense until they have nothing left to attack you with, then come in for the kill. Even against a solid defense, people will be able to rescue one or a few LS's if they can catch you unprepared (which sleeker decks often can). In order to beat a defense like this, an offense will usually need at least 5-6 effective battle winners (since you have banding and ways to bring in more defenders after the first one is discarded). If you're able to neutralize one of their successful RA's with FA, or at least have the possibility of doing so, then I'd say it's more worth it than most any other card.

As to the other Prof's points:
1) Yes, maybe a fair amount of times the opponent will get GoYS first, but I'd say the potential reward is worth the risk.
2) An early CBN Zeal/AoCP can easily get an LS from this deck, especially if the initial draw is mostly forts/arts/GE
3) You don't need LotS up until you are ready to Grail, and at that point, you will either have used FA, or no longer need it.
4) I can't think of any other card that has the potential to be as helpful for this deck as Falling Away.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #39 on:** January 26, 2010, 02:41:54 PM »

I'd siding with prof on this one....

oh, the Alstad one.

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Author Topic: Grapes? DD? Heroless LAUGHS at such triffles. (Read 5701 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo