Author Topic: Genesis/Egyptians  (Read 3594 times)

Offline Arrthoa

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Genesis/Egyptians
« on: January 27, 2012, 01:40:28 PM »
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Here is my Genesis Egyptian deck. So far it has a record of 4-1.
Cards:63

Souls: 8
Same Book
Exchanger
Revealer
Shut Door
3-liner
Speed Bump
Shuffler
Anti-Angel

Doms: 10
SoG
AoL
Guardian
NJ
Grapes
Mayhem
Burial
Falling Away
Martyr
Destruction

Fortress: 2
Storehouse
Pithom


Sites: 1
Pharoh's Prison

Multi-Enhancements: 1
Brass Serpant(P)

Artifacts:5
Chariots
Tassals
Grail
Stone Pillar
Unholy Writ

DAE: 1
Seven years of Plenty

Heroes: 11
Joseph
Zebby
Rachel
Jacob
Simeon
Levi
Asher
Angel at Shur (P)
Judah
Dan
Ben

Good Enhancements: 8
Joseph Before Pharaoh
Creation of the World
Forgiveness of Joseph
Pleading for the City
Numerous as the Stars
Answer to Prayer
Reuban's Torn Cloth
Well Reopened


Evil Characters: 8
Dreaming Pharaoh
Pharaoh's Baker
Pharaoh's Cupbearer
Potipher
Potipher's Wife
Egyptian Magician's
King of Tyrus(Wa)
Amalekite Slave


Evil Enhancements: 8
Failed Objective
Ruthless
Magician's Snakes
Swift Horses
Egyptian Chariots and Horses
Massacre of Innocents
Unknown Nation
Wonder's Fogotten
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 12:05:47 AM by Arrthoa »

Offline Nameless

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 01:45:16 PM »
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Doesn't look bad. I would try to get it to 56 or 50. You can probably take out Dance of Death.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 01:48:02 PM »
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my playgroub really doesn't use female heroes much. Most have two females at most in their deck. How does the defense look?

Offline Nameless

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2012, 01:49:47 PM »
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my playgroub really doesn't use female heroes much. Most have two females at most in their deck. How does the defense look?
Your Characters look good. Maybe a little work on the enhancements.

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2012, 01:53:06 PM »
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Wonders Forgotten, Failed Objective, & Swift Horses (C/D) are all great enhancements to have in a Gold defense.
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Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2012, 01:54:22 PM »
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updated them

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2012, 02:03:00 PM »
+1
Dance of Death is still considered a "fluff" card, and you're more than likely better off just cutting it. It's universally agreed upon that 50-56 is the best deck size, and anything more isn't going to be all that good. Also, just to make things easier for us, it's generally better to list souls by their names (Revealer, Female Only, etc), rather than their references. Here's the deck reworked to bring it to size, cut out a lot of fluff cards, and fill in some gaping holes. Let me know if you'd like explanations on any of these choices.

Total Cards: 56

Souls: 8
Shuffler
Hopper
2-Line
FBTN
Female Only
Shame
NT Only
Punisher

Doms: 11
SoG
AoL
Guardian
NJ
Grapes
Mayhem
Burial
Falling Away
Martyr
Destruction
Harvest Time

Fortress: 1
Storehouse
Pithom
Pharoh's Throne Room


Sites: 0
Egypt x2
Pharoh's Prison


Multi-Enhancements: 0
Coat of Many
Brass Serpant(P)
Dance of Death


Artifacts:5
Blue Tassels
Household Idols
Captured Ark
Chariots
Holy Grail
Stone Pillar
Unholy Writ

DAE: 1
Seven years of Plenty
Seven years of Famine

Heroes: 11
Judah
Ben

Joseph
Zebby
Rachel
Jacob
Simeon
Levi
Asher
Seraph (Bands to Blue)
Captain
Dan
Abrahm/ Abraham

Good Enhancements: 7
Joseph Before Pharaoh
Forgiveness of Joseph
Abraham's Descendent

Striking Herod
Creation of the World
Freeing Earthquake
Created by Christ
Pleading for the City

Numerous as the Stars
Answer to Prayer
Buying Grain
Reuban's Torn Cloth
Abraham's Servant to Ur

Evil Characters: 7
Dreaming Pharaoh
Pharaoh's Baker
Pharaoh's Cupbearer
Potipher
Potipher's Wife

Egyptian Magician's
King of Tyrus(Wa)
Egyptian Warden
Amalekite Slave
Egyptiaan Archer

Evil Enhancements: 5
Ensalved by Egypt
Magician's Snakes
Ruthless
Egyption Spear

Egyptian Chariots and Horses
Massacre of Innocents
Unknown Nation
Hadad Arises
Outnumbered
Partner Abondoned

Swift Horses
Failed Objective
Wonders Forgotten

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 02:10:53 PM »
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Why cut three Genesis Egyptions that can band to the pharaoh? Seraph and help with the banding chain of Captain and Jacob. Abraham can help negate the abilities on soul cards. Plus Pithom helps a Egyption defense. So yes I would Like a explanation please. I do not want to go lower than 63 also. I never did well at 56.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2012, 02:17:37 PM »
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Where can I find the names for the Lost Souls?

Offline Red Wing

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2012, 02:25:18 PM »
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Where can I find the names for the Lost Souls?
right here

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-card-play/redemption174-abbreviations-acronyms-shortcuts-aliases/

Why cut three Genesis Egyptions that can band to the pharaoh? Seraph and help with the banding chain of Captain and Jacob. Abraham can help negate the abilities on soul cards. Plus Pithom helps a Egyption defense. So yes I would Like a explanation please. I do not want to go lower than 63 also. I never did well at 56.
CotH and Seraph mess up Zeb and Benjamin. Abraham is okay, but the FBTN LS does that. 56 card or lower decks have almost always done better.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 02:28:02 PM by Red Wing »
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 02:35:00 PM »
+1
Your deck will not be competitive at more than 56 cards at any tournament level higher than a District. Small deck sizes are better, and virtually every single National T12P win is by a deck that's at 50-52 cards. If you choose to have your deck at 63, that's fine, but you will not win games that aren't at low level tournaments. I'm pretty sure every experienced deck builder will back me up on this.

I cut Pithom and Pharaoh's Throne Room because, in the grand scheme of things, neither card is really going to help you all that much. Most offenses won't be hit too hard by Pithom, especially if you get it out late. I would keep it over Pharaoh's Throne Room, but it can still be an easy cut since your odds of hitting anything worthwhile (specifically SoG) aren't very good. Pharaoh's Throne Room simply isn't a good enough protect fort for a defense like this. I used it in my own Genesis deck for a while, but it doesn't work that well, so it ended up getting cut on my journey to 51. I cut both Egypts and Pharaoh's Prison because right now, Blue and Gold are two of the most popular brigade colors, so you won't be doing much site-stalling with them. Furthermore, you're much more liable to get Storehouse out earlier than Pharaoh's Prison for Dreaming Pharaoh because 7 Years of Plenty and Joseph both search for it. The Egypts only serve to supplement a relatively weak evil enhancement, and thus,  were cut.

All of your multi-brigade enhancements were fluff. Numbers don't matter that much because you're trying to get initiative to play enhancements, not give your opponent initiative, so Dance of Death is actually more liable to hurt you than help you overall. Coat of Many Colors is fluff since you should never have that many silver enhancements in a Genesis deck to begin with (more on that later). Brass Serpent is a favorite among more experienced players, but it's still not that useful. Your goal with Genesis should be to abuse Joseph as much as possible, and there are a couple cards to get him back that work better overall than Brass Serpent does, so in general, it's not needed in a Genesis deck at all. Household Idols was cut because it hurts you more than helps you - not being able to use Simeon or Creation of the World is bad, and you don't need one of your own cards restricting your ability to do that. Chariot got hit because again, you have ways to get Joseph back if you need to, and if you're at a point where you need Chariot to win the game, odds are, you've already lost. I cut Seven Years of Famine because you don't need both cards since the Famine stops Plenty anyways.

A Jacob/Captain band is enough, and frankly, I don't use it in my own Genesis deck anyways (whether or not having Captain in a Genesis deck is a good move is an ongoing debate). Adding Seraph is simply too much for too little payoff. Odds are, if they can stop your Captain/Jacob band, adding Seraph won't help at all. Abram/Abraham is a largely useless card. The only Lost Soul you should ever not have access to is the NT, and it's not used as much as it used to be since Disciples and TGT became more popular. You have to have a rescue with Abram before you can even negate Lost Souls anyways, so it's a pretty easy cut. Because Seraph is cut, that means all your silver enhancements (along with Pleading for the City) can be cut. Buying Grain is fluff, and Abraham's Servant to Ur just opens you up to Haman's Plots and doesn't stop anything unless you're using it on Jacob pre-block, which still isn't all that good.

Banding is not the be-all-end-all of Egyptian defense. You have enough banding without cards you'll virtually never get use out of. I'm not even going to go through a step-by-step "this is why I cut these cards" on the evil enhancements. All of them were negatable, and that's not something you want in a deck like this. Your defense won't pack as much punch, but it's much more effective this way.

Now, as to what I added, Harvest Time is an easy add, since more soul generation is always a good thing, especially in speed decks. Genesis doesn't have much capture protection, so Blue Tassels is always nice, and Holy Grail is good to take out an opponent's Uzzah or something, as well as convert your own Cupbearer to search discard pile for a Hero and give your opponent a soul in their LoB. Ben is a must in any Genesis deck, and Judah lets you recover Ben or Joseph from the discard pile, as well as get back your Joseph if he gets captured. The three enhancements I added are three of the four best Genesis enhancements in the game, and they vastly increase your offensive capabilities. Same thing for the defensive enhancements: two CBI (one CBN) battle winners and a D3 card is not to be trifled with.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 02:42:02 PM »
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The Egypt's weren't for stalling but for making enslaved by egypt cbn. Potiphar make capture and banding cbn plus if prison is in play he is cbn.

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 02:44:18 PM »
+1
Look, I'm just explaining what the vast majority of experienced deck builders will say. You're obviously free to make any deck building decisions that you want, just don't expect to be particularly competitive.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 02:59:00 PM »
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I have cut some cards and added some of the suggested.

Offline Nameless

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 03:06:48 PM »
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I would cut Buying Grain, and 7yof and a Lost Soul to get down to 63 cards.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 03:36:41 PM »
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updated

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 03:46:17 PM »
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Arrthoa, if you don't believe me, I'd encourage you to download RTS and we'll play a few games - my Genesis deck against yours.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 11:12:37 PM »
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I'm not saying I don't believe you but I say being 63 cards is good, seeing how it started out at 77. So it is the midway of 50 and 77.

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 11:20:42 PM »
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Less bad doesn't equal good, I'm just confused why you asked for advice and then didn't listen much to the advice given.

Offline lp670sv

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2012, 11:24:53 PM »
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Chris just let him have the deck at 63 cards. Believe it or not some people don't care that 50-56 is the best deck size. He listened to plenty of advice including some of yours, if he doesn't want to cut it to 56 stop trying to force it on him. You'd think we were debating which wire to cut to diffuse the bomb with how many consecutive posts you've made about the deck size.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 11:28:51 PM »
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Along with what lp670sv said, I've seen my fair share 63 card decks built by some of you hero members.

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 11:50:44 PM »
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I apologize to Arrthoa. It's incredibly frustrating when someone asks for advice and then doesn't take it, but I indeed should have let the issue lie, and for that, I apologize - I didn't mean to force my opinion on anyone.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2012, 09:38:04 AM »
+1
FTR, I was undefeated in six games at an NC Regionals one year with a 70 card deck. I took second because of the one game I used my other deck. I just like to bring that up when I hear people say that >50 card decks are bad.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2012, 10:43:18 AM »
+1
I apologize to Arrthoa. It's incredibly frustrating when someone asks for advice and then doesn't take it, but I indeed should have let the issue lie, and for that, I apologize - I didn't mean to force my opinion on anyone.

You're only looking at your own personal perspective on this and not taking into account the goals and desires of the people you offer deck advice to. Just because your deck is awesome and you've found a very effective, successful way to play Genesis/Egyptians does not mean that your way is the only way.

When offering deck advice to others it's good to consider their goals. Even if a deck builders choice is not optimal (63 cards vs 50-56) it doesn't mean it still can perform well. You're correct in your statement that it probably won't win a big tournament, however the same thing was said about 50 card speed decks in T1-2P at one time. I've seen well build, large Egyptian defenses that do very well. Even if it doesn't perform top notch, if the person playing it has fun and enjoys it, then it was a success. After all there is a winner and loser in every game and only one winner out of a field of people at every tournament. All the "losers" need to be able to have fun without winning every game. :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 10:45:58 AM by Gabe »
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2012, 07:25:48 PM »
+1
FTR, I was undefeated in six games at an NC Regionals one year with a 70 card deck. I took second because of the one game I used my other deck. I just like to bring that up when I hear people say that >50 card decks are bad.

What year was that? I'm just curious.

Quote
You're only looking at your own personal perspective on this and not taking into account the goals and desires of the people you offer deck advice to. Just because your deck is awesome and you've found a very effective, successful way to play Genesis/Egyptians does not mean that your way is the only way.

Yes, I do have a habit of getting stuck in my ways so to speak, which is why I apologized to the OP. I do remain stubborn that small and enhancement-lite is the best way to go about Genesis, but again, I was wrong to keep harping on that, and again, I apologize.

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2012, 11:47:41 PM »
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Added some changes to the card list. Chronic, your apology is accepted because I tend to get stuck in my ways too. I use to only play 133 cards deck, until I had a losing streek starting. Now I play between 63-70 card decks. I never thought I would play below 100.
Note: Ruthless is CBN is used by a Egyptian
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 11:51:32 PM by Arrthoa »

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2012, 09:32:32 PM »
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Quote from: Chronic Apathy link=topic=29387.msg459775#msg459775
What year was that? I'm just curious.

2007. So it was awhile ago, but speed decks ruled the day for the most part back then as well. The idea that a 70 card deck could win was juat as fantastical then as it is now.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2012, 11:33:04 PM »
+1
Need I mind everyone of... Monstrosity? Although that was more of a tech then anything, but still. Oh yes, and the kiss.  :-*

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2012, 11:44:08 PM »
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That was before Mayhem, which makes it even more likely that you'll get draw-screwed with a big deck.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 11:49:02 PM »
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Agreed. I think that's the main point in 50-56 card decks now v. back in the day: a FTM wins the game, especially if your opponent is going to wind up with 64 cards in his deck while you have 36.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2012, 08:32:07 AM »
+1
Mayhem was out at the time of Boston Nationals but somehow Tyler placed 3rd in T1-2P with a 70 card deck.

I played a version of Jordan's Heroless a couple days ago and it's still something to be feared. In the hands of a good player, a 70 card deck is still a forced to be reckoned with.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2012, 09:12:43 AM »
+3
In the hands of a good player, a starter deck can be a force to be reckoned with. That doesn't mean you should play one.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

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Re: Genesis/Egyptians
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2012, 01:36:04 PM »
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IMO, though they will be competitive every game, realistically the best a 70 card deck could do at nats would be 6 wins. There's just too many variables that would lead to their demise. Some games would be time out wins, some would be ties, but 6 full wins would be the most I could see them doing.

Now next year, if and when dominant cap goes in, 70 carders will be more like 7 wins.

 


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