Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I've made some revisions to this over the months since last Nats, and I should actually be playing MP again at a tourney this weekend, so I wanted to post the current version for last-minute suggestions/improvements.

Cards to possibly work in: First Fruits(?)

Cards in Deck: 51
Lost Souls: 8
  Female-only
  3-liner
  NT-only
  Shuffler
  Revealer
  Shut Door
  1st round
  Hopper

Fortresses: 2
  TGT
  Herod's Temple

Artifacts: 5
  4DC
  Writ
  Gifts
  Charms
  Captured Ark

Doms: 11
  SoG
  NJ
  GoYS
  Grapes
  Angel
  HT
  CM
  Burial
  FA
  DoN
  Mayhem

Heroes: 10
  Mary, MoJ
  Salome
  Joanna
  Lydia
  Susanna
  John
  Matthew
  Bart
  Philip
  Peter

Good Enhancements: 8
  Consider the Lilies
  Magnificat
  He is Risen
  Passover Hymn
  Reach
  Pentecost
  AoCP
  MLaMG

Evil Characters: 6
  Sabbath Breaker
  Uzzah
  KoT (gold)
  King Manny
  Am Slave
  Gomer

Evil Enhancements: 1
  Haman's Plot

I agree with the above.  I'd pull out Manny over Damsel, and Mary Mag over Lydia.

The times you will use Mayhem always outweigh the times you won't.  It can be a free D6, while disrupting your opponent's hand.  It can act as soul gen, and to pull out more characters.

I've never had a problem Mayhem could solve that I couldn't also solve with other cards in my deck. I've used it in decks before, and usually it just sits in my hand until the game is over (or I throw it away when I have to discard from my hand). I'm not denying the strategic advantage of a FTM, but all other times it just seems so overrated to me.

@lp - SoG will always be a better card than Mayhem.

Mayhem is better than SoG. If NJ didn't exist, I'd take Mayhem over SoG any day if I had to choose.

SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.

Heroes are also capable of increasing your score, and mayhem gives you chance of drawing Son of God. There is not situationalness about Mayhem, there are pretty much no situations where you would play it that you aren't benefiting from it. Just rescued my 3 LS but don't have SOG/NJ yet? Mayhem. chance to draw them. No enhancements to win this battle? Mayhem. I have only mayhem in my hand my opponent has 6+? Mayhem. I just feel like being a jerk? Mayhem.

SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.

Therefore Primary Objective is better than Mayhem.

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 01:38:22 PM

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 01:27:41 PM

SoG directly increases your score (which is the only way to win, currently) therefore it will always be better than a card that maybe gives you better cards in your hand than you had before. As long as there are no alternate win conditions in Redemption, SoG will always be the best card in the game.

Therefore Primary Objective is better than Mayhem.

However, with SoG, you don't have to discard your hand . Plus you can get another free LS with NJ.

And you can get a free whatever card you were looking for with mayhem if we are counting paired cards.

[Hipster]
I said Mayhem was the best card in the game when TXP first came out and everyone was still swooning over Grapes.
[/Hipster]

I'm not sure if it's better than SOG, but I would use it in every deck without a question. RDT doesn't use it, but I still think he's wrong about it. FTM is a win 90% of the time, you can usually use it from the early to mid game for a 3 or more card advantage, it is fantastic both defensively and offensively even when it won't give you a card advantage (or may even give your opponent a card advantage), and has a really fun dynamic with sam decks. Out of any card in the game, Mayhem has the most utility. Don't forget you get a FTM like 22% of the time, too.

I've won only one game where my opponent got a FTM off on me, and he made three Big Red level mistakes.

The other time at Nats that a FTM hit me was at seats 5&6 of Nats.  It's not like a better built deck would have helped, it was already a coin flip.

I just haven't seen the statistics you guys are positing for why Mayhem is so great. I was at Nats last August, my statistics are including those games, so it's not even just a "your playgroup is weird" thing either.

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 01:55:37 PM

I've won only one game where my opponent got a FTM off on me, and he made three Big Red level mistakes.

Build your deck better then? lol

The guy who won nats got 6 FTM I believe. Even if you don't believe in it, it just makes logical sense. On a perfect first turn mayhem you are 11 cards farther through your deck than your opponent is, which makes you 11 cards closer to SOG/NJ and the rest of your cards in general.

Every card is situational. SOG is situational, you  can only play when there is a soul to rescue. However, there are dozens of situations where Mayhem is one of the most, if not the most powerful card in the game.

SOG can't get you the all by itself, it needs a lost soul to rescue. More often than not I use mayhem to try and get SOG/NJ when I just made the RA for my 3rd, which results in me winning the game, but without mayhem I would not be able to get SOG/NJ

The lack of Passover Hymn is most unothorodox.

@ everyone saying Mayhem is better than SoG, I agree with you, but your arguments seem flawed when keep saying that you'd use Mayhem to get SoG, it's almost like you would rather have SoG...

Just to be different, I agree with Brow that Mayhem is overrated (although still good)

Just to be different, I agree with Brow that Mayhem is overrated (although still good)

Huzzah, I'm not alone!

I would take out Words for PH or FF. Your choice; I don't use Words but I use both PH and FF in my TGDi deck.

I guess I could try without Words. Hesitant to lose one of my ITBs, though. If you're coming this Saturday, I'd love to compare decklists for TGDi.

Quote from: browarod on February 16, 2012, 05:53:20 PM

If you're coming this Saturday, I'd love to compare decklists for TGDi.

That's a funny thing, because we did that last tournament too.

Really? *facepalm* I couldn't remember which one we compared. I have like the worst memory ever. >_>

Not being able to compare decklists, what's wrong with an ITB D3?

Nothing, I would use it in a straight TGT deck, but I think the purple (and Susanna) makes it unneeded; especially when players won't really be blocking much in multi. You could find yourself discarding it at the end of your turn more often than not.

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 16, 2012, 06:34:20 PM

Not being able to compare decklists, what's wrong with an ITB D3?

Nothing, I would use it in a straight TGT deck, but I think the purple (and Susanna) makes it unneeded; especially when players won't really be blocking much in multi. You could find yourself discarding it at the end of your turn more often than not.

Sounds good, I use it in my 2P deck.  I haven't really considered MP this season.