Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: robm on June 02, 2010, 04:55:25 PM
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Hey all,
I need some advice/ help with part of my deck. I am only going to list the heroes. What would you add or take away herowise. Thanks!
Moses fbn
Benaiah (W)
Shamhuth (W)
Tribal Elder
Heldai
Maharai
Ira (W)
Angel in the Path
Israelite Archer
The Strong Angel (W)
Captian of the Host (W)
The centurion at Capernaum (W)
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Remove tribal elder and centurion and angel in the path. Add Abishai (WC) and Asahel TxP and Covenant with Moses. I assume by the W you mean Warrior class and not the "Warriors" version? You definitely want the Warrior class versions of all. Add Dragon Raid for site access. Add I am Salvation for Lost Soul access (and to fight the annoying "cannot be prevented" and "more than 3 brigades" lost souls). Have a bunch of ways to destroy/shuffle artifacts, and you have a strong offense.
This is one of my favorite decks. Have fun with it.
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Remove tribal elder and centurion and angel in the path. Add Abishai (WC) and Asahel TxP and Covenant with Moses. I assume by the W you mean Warrior class and not the "Warriors" version? You definitely want the Warrior class versions of all. Add Dragon Raid for site access. Add I am Salvation for Lost Soul access (and to fight the annoying "cannot be prevented" and "more than 3 brigades" lost souls). Have a bunch of ways to destroy/shuffle artifacts, and you have a strong offense.
+1
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actually instead of dragonraid you will need new jerusalem and promised land bcuz a site lockout with pergamum would wipe out your deck. Also the warriors ones are sometimes better bcuz i block you with zimri your offense goes byebye. BUT if you wanna go mass banding warrior class go for - Asahel to Heldai to Mahari to Helez to your choice of Beneniah or Ira...well i would forgo the strong angel (warrior class) and go to warrriors (since no one bands to him anyway) and maybe a simeon, jacob, CoTH (warriors)
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And definitely use the Exchanger LS too, as you are totally stopped by Female Only and mostly stopped by NT only.
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actually instead of dragonraid you will need new jerusalem and promised land bcuz a site lockout with pergamum would wipe out your deck. Also the warriors ones are sometimes better bcuz i block you with zimri your offense goes byebye. BUT if you wanna go mass banding warrior class go for - Asahel to Heldai to Mahari to Helez to your choice of Beneniah or Ira...well i would forgo the strong angel (warrior class) and go to warrriors (since no one bands to him anyway) and maybe a simeon, jacob, CoTH (warriors)
Good point if they are using Pergamum. Priestly Crown is a good choise too. For the Zimri issue have a Brass Serpent Promo in there, or COF of course or Name of the Lord.
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usually i've seen FBN decks include widow, ethiopian treasurer, reach of desperation and AOCP - gets you past most defenses if you fell your offense aint workin'. This looks mostly like my dads deck except he doesnt do warrior class just gathering and simeon jacob and CoTH - works pretty well but i still crush his phillies with my Tomb and Teal lol
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actually instead of dragonraid you will need new jerusalem and promised land bcuz a site lockout with pergamum would wipe out your deck. Also the warriors ones are sometimes better bcuz i block you with zimri your offense goes byebye. BUT if you wanna go mass banding warrior class go for - Asahel to Heldai to Mahari to Helez to your choice of Beneniah or Ira...well i would forgo the strong angel (warrior class) and go to warrriors (since no one bands to him anyway) and maybe a simeon, jacob, CoTH (warriors)
Good point if they are using Pergamum. Priestly Crown is a good choise too. For the Zimri issue have a Brass Serpent Promo in there, or COF of course or Name of the Lord.
Possibly even I am Healing
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Just as an FYI - Since the CBP soul grants a CBP ability it in itself is CBP.
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Remove tribal elder and centurion and angel in the path. Add Abishai (WC) and Asahel TxP and Covenant with Moses. I assume by the W you mean Warrior class and not the "Warriors" version? You definitely want the Warrior class versions of all. Add Dragon Raid for site access. Add I am Salvation for Lost Soul access (and to fight the annoying "cannot be prevented" and "more than 3 brigades" lost souls). Have a bunch of ways to destroy/shuffle artifacts, and you have a strong offense.
This is one of my favorite decks. Have fun with it.
I was referring to warrior class heroes with (w). n
Thanks for the advise thus far!
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Just as an FYI - Since the CBP soul grants a CBP ability it in itself is CBP.
Cannot be prevented is not the same as cannot be negated. It it was then the lost soul would be an even stronger Asherah Pole and make all evil enhancements CBN. Thus it is my understanding that I am Salvation DOES negate the special ability on the CBP lost soul, and every other Lost Soul except the Lost Souls card.
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Just as an FYI - Since the CBP soul grants a CBP ability it in itself is CBP.
Cannot be prevented is not the same as cannot be negated. It it was then the lost soul would be an even stronger Asherah Pole and make all evil enhancements CBN. Thus it is my understanding that I am Salvation DOES negate the special ability on the CBP lost soul, and every other Lost Soul except the Lost Souls card.
To stop a CBP ability, you have to interrupt it, then basically remove it from play. I Am Salvation interrupts it (first part of negate), but then all it does is try and prevent it (which it can't). So the CBP lost soul keeps on preventing.
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Just as an FYI - Since the CBP soul grants a CBP ability it in itself is CBP.
Cannot be prevented is not the same as cannot be negated. It it was then the lost soul would be an even stronger Asherah Pole and make all evil enhancements CBN. Thus it is my understanding that I am Salvation DOES negate the special ability on the CBP lost soul, and every other Lost Soul except the Lost Souls card.
To stop a CBP ability, you have to interrupt it, then basically remove it from play. I Am Salvation interrupts it (first part of negate), but then all it does is try and prevent it (which it can't). So the CBP lost soul keeps on preventing.
I don't think this is right. Negate is interrupt + prevent in a sense, but not exactly.
If you play an evil cannot be prevented enhancement, I can still negate it.... I think
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Cannot be prevented is not the same as cannot be negated. It it was then the lost soul would be an even stronger Asherah Pole and make all evil enhancements CBN. Thus it is my understanding that I am Salvation DOES negate the special ability on the CBP lost soul, and every other Lost Soul except the Lost Souls card.
To stop a CBP ability, you have to interrupt it, then basically remove it from play. I Am Salvation interrupts it (first part of negate), but then all it does is try and prevent it (which it can't). So the CBP lost soul keeps on preventing.
I don't think this is right. Negate is interrupt + prevent in a sense, but not exactly.
If you play an evil cannot be prevented enhancement, I can still negate it.... I think
It's always made sense to me like this: CBI can't be undone once it has activated. CBP can't be stopped ahead of time. You can interrupt a CBP enhancement, but unless you do something to indirectly prevent it (like discard it), it still activates. Something that directly negates with the word "negate" can't negate a CBP ability.
Of course, this is moot concerning the CBP LS, since it says "Unless a covenant is in play..." I Am Salvation is a covenant, so the CBP LS doesn't work when IAS is active.
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
So are you saying you can negate a CBP card just by playing a plain vanilla negate such as Flaming Sword?
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Yes, I could negate a CBP evil enhancement with Flaming Sword.
The CBP soul was created to slow those mean old captain bands, probably.
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Or warriors Moses and Strong Angel........
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Yes, I could negate a CBP evil enhancement with Flaming Sword.
The CBP soul was created to slow those mean old captain bands, probably.
Hypothetical situation. I have an occupied site in play, you RA against me, I block with a small orange character, play Corrupted, which is CBP. You play Flaming Sword, which interrupts Corrupted. Then Flaming Sword tries to prevent Corrupted, but since Corrupted is CBP, it can't be prevented and your hero is still converted. Captain's ongoing ability (preventing special abilities) is no different from Flaming Sword's ability after it has interrupted the last enhancement (prevent the previous enhancement).
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Yes, I could negate a CBP evil enhancement with Flaming Sword.
The CBP soul was created to slow those mean old captain bands, probably.
Hypothetical situation. I have an occupied site in play, you RA against me, I block with a small orange character, play Corrupted, which is CBP. You play Flaming Sword, which interrupts Corrupted. Then Flaming Sword tries to prevent Corrupted, but since Corrupted is CBP, it can't be prevented and your hero is still converted. Captain's ongoing ability (preventing special abilities) is no different from Flaming Sword's ability after it has interrupted the last enhancement (prevent the previous enhancement).
No. You play Corrupted, and I play Flaming Sword (which is a negate). The conversion never takes place, as Corrupted cannot be prevented: it may still be negated after you have played it.
EDIT: REALLY BAD, INCORRECT WORDING.
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Yes, I could negate a CBP evil enhancement with Flaming Sword.
The CBP soul was created to slow those mean old captain bands, probably.
Hypothetical situation. I have an occupied site in play, you RA against me, I block with a small orange character, play Corrupted, which is CBP. You play Flaming Sword, which interrupts Corrupted. Then Flaming Sword tries to prevent Corrupted, but since Corrupted is CBP, it can't be prevented and your hero is still converted. Captain's ongoing ability (preventing special abilities) is no different from Flaming Sword's ability after it has interrupted the last enhancement (prevent the previous enhancement).
No. You play Corrupted, and I play Flaming Sword (which is a negate). The conversion never takes place, as Corrupted cannot be prevented: it may still be negated after you have played it.
EDIT: REALLY BAD, INCORRECT WORDING.
I'll pose the question on the rulings board. This would completely change how I understand interrupt, prevent, and negate... I was always under the impression that the only way a negate could "negate" anything was by interrupting the previous ability, then preventing it, thus using an interrupt to get the prevent "in front of" the ability being negated. Then when the ability tries to reactivate, there is a prevent in the way... But I thought a CBP ability couldn't be prevented, no matter what. Hence, CBP.
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But it can be negated.
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But it can be negated.
Well I will respectfully disagree, and I have this question on the Rulings section, so we will see what others say.
Oh, and sorry to hijack your thread :D The important thing is that I Am Salvation will stop the CBP lost soul because it says "Unless a covenant is in play..." :)
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cbp can be interrupted, then prevented.
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The important thing is that I Am Salvation will stop the CBP lost soul because it says "Unless a covenant is in play..." :)
+1
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how about adding stronghold in the desert for shennanigins...
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
cards like Moses negate all the enhancements, not just prevent. so if you play a CBP enhancement, you interrupt and prevent after the fact.
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actually instead of dragonraid you will need new jerusalem and promised land bcuz a site lockout with pergamum would wipe out your deck. Also the warriors ones are sometimes better bcuz i block you with zimri your offense goes byebye. BUT if you wanna go mass banding warrior class go for - Asahel to Heldai to Mahari to Helez to your choice of Beneniah or Ira...well i would forgo the strong angel (warrior class) and go to warrriors (since no one bands to him anyway) and maybe a simeon, jacob, CoTH (warriors)
you won't need both New Jerusalem and Promised land bcuz he already has heroes af pretty much every brigade
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
cards like Moses negate all the enhancements, not just prevent. so if you play a CBP enhancement, you interrupt and prevent after the fact.
Moses interrupts and prevents when he enters battle. His ability is not "interrupting" every card that enters battle in the future - he interrupts every ability already in the battle, and then prevents all abilities going forward (including the interrupted ones). CBP's main purpose is to work against FBTN - it can't be stopped by Moses' ongoing prevent. I don't think it's possible to have an interrupt ability that interrupts a card not yet played...
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@ Rawrl:
Yes, you can still negate it if you negate it after it is played because prevent means to negate before it is played.
cards like Moses negate all the enhancements, not just prevent. so if you play a CBP enhancement, you interrupt and prevent after the fact.
Moses interrupts and prevents when he enters battle. His ability is not "interrupting" every card that enters battle in the future - he interrupts every ability already in the battle, and then prevents all abilities going forward (including the interrupted ones). CBP's main purpose is to work against FBTN - it can't be stopped by Moses' ongoing prevent. I don't think it's possible to have an interrupt ability that interrupts a card not yet played...
they had this discussion a long time ago (which made STAMP quit again) and it was ruled that he interrupts and prevents.
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.
Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.
Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.
Agree! This is what I was trying to say.
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.
Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.
even if you played words of encouragement+transfiguration to bring him in?
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
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Moses would cancel a CBP enhancement that was played BEFORE he entered battle.
Moses would NOT prevent a CBP enhancement that is played AFTER he enters battle.
even if you played words of encouragement+transfiguration to bring him in?
If I understand your question right, then yes.
For example, if my EC plays a CBP discard EE on your white hero, and you play Words+Tranfig to bring in Moses, then Moses would cancel my CBP discard EE (because it was played BEFORE Moses entered battle). But if I then played another CBP discard EE, then that discard would happen (because it was played AFTER Moses entered battle).
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Isn't the ongoing ability actually a "prevent"? You can't interrupt an ability that hasn't happened yet. Interrupt happens once - when the negate-all character enters battle. Moses enters battle, all abilities are interrupted (only affects ones already in battle), all abilities are prevented (including those interrupted). CBP cards (like The Trap of the Devil grants) were designed to deal with Captain bands and the like, and it has been ruled that nothing, not even a negate all, can stop a CBP ability ahead of time.
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Isn't the ongoing ability actually a "prevent"? You can't interrupt an ability that hasn't happened yet. Interrupt happens once - when the negate-all character enters battle. Moses enters battle, all abilities are interrupted (only affects ones already in battle), all abilities are prevented (including those interrupted). CBP cards (like The Trap of the Devil grants) were designed to deal with Captain bands and the like, and it has been ruled that nothing, not even a negate all, can stop a CBP ability ahead of time.
"The special ability of a “play by the numbers” card explicitly says that it interrupts and prevents ALL special abilities. " from the REG.
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Yes, it is ongoing, but it can't stop a CBP that is played AFTER Moses enters battle. :)
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Negate all is an ongoing ability.
Yes, it is ongoing, but it can't stop a CBP :)
in that case, negate all is NOT ongoing. it is merely a prevent. you're dividing the interrupt and the prevent, when negate does both.
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after much searching, I found this thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=14399.0) which agrees with me.
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after much searching, I found this thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=14399.0) which agrees with me.
I think we must be misunderstanding each other, because that thread also agrees with me :)
if your "cannot be prevented" card is played after TSA's negate all is in effect your card will work.
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'Interrupt' is not an ongoing ability. Only the 'Prevent' part of TSA's SA is ongoing.
There aren't two separate abilities. It's one ability. Negate all.
Check the REG, negate all cards are listed under "Ongoing abilities".
The Strong Angel
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 10 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: All special abilities on non-warrior class characters and non-weapon class enhancements are negated.
seems to agree with me, since Gabe is saying that not only the prevent part of TSA's SA is onging.
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There aren't two separate abilities. It's one ability. Negate all.
seems to agree with me, since Gabe is saying that not only the prevent part of TSA's SA is onging.
Yes, Gabe is saying that the entire "negate" ability is ongoing. However, that still doesn't stop CBP cards that are played after TSA or Moses enters battle (which Gabe says in the last post of the thread).
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There aren't two separate abilities. It's one ability. Negate all.
seems to agree with me, since Gabe is saying that not only the prevent part of TSA's SA is onging.
Yes, Gabe is saying that the entire "negate" ability is ongoing. However, that still doesn't stop CBP cards that are played after TSA or Moses enters battle (which Gabe says in the last post of the thread).
got it.
to be honest, I've always played CBP (after the fact)>Negate, but when I read this thread, I thought of that thread and was confused.
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got it.
Glad to hear it. You're not alone. A lot of people have been confused on the whole CBP thing lately :)