Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Mr.Hiatus on February 01, 2012, 09:44:57 PM
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I'm trying to come up with a strong defense for type 1, but it seems like the defenses can not keep up with all the new offenses, or simply can not stop all offenses anymore. Then when you do make a strong large defense, as most people know I use in T1, your offense is no longer strong enough to get past these small mono brigade defenses. Kinda discouraged in type 1 right now. Can anyone pick my spirits up? Any strong defensive ideas that can completely shut the opponent down, and if so is there enough room for an offense. I play 63-70 primarily.
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I'm trying to come up with a strong defense for type 1, but it seems like the defenses can not keep up with all the new offenses, or simply can not stop all offenses anymore. Then when you do make a strong large defense, as most people know I use in T1, your offense is no longer strong enough to get past these small mono brigade defenses. Kinda discouraged in type 1 right now. Can anyone pick my spirits up? Any strong defensive ideas that can completely shut the opponent down, and if so is there enough room for an offense. I play 63-70 primarily.
I haven't tested it yet, but here's my try at a turtle (creative title, I know).
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/type-1-deck-advice/turtle-29429/ (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/type-1-deck-advice/turtle-29429/)
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A strong demon defense is always good in my books. Just be sure to put a King David in on offense because Kings of Israel hurts it badly.
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A strong demon defense is always good in my books. Just be sure to put a King David in on offense because Kings of Israel hurts it badly.
demon defenses aren't strong enough on their own in a defensive heavy deck, IMO.
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A strong demon defense is always good in my books. Just be sure to put a King David in on offense because Kings of Israel hurts it badly.
how many times do we have to pick apart your demon defenses until you accept they aren't good....
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Simply put, no, not really. The most common turtle decks are Brown Royalty with some pale green splashed in (Magicians and Assyrians), and while certainly effective, they're not really strong enough to stop a Sam or Gardensciples deck outside of a bad draw.
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Red Wing, thanks for the deck idea. I'd do more evil enhs though. Orange is definitely good as a split, or splash, but not mono. Guess my type 1 tourney days are even more narrow this year.
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I've won ~6 consecutive games that I've played with various versions of my Heroless deck (a couple were vs. FBTNB/Speed Decks, another vs. a Disciples offense). It's 70 cards, and the defenses vary based on the versions, but it is primarily black. I can post some decklists later hopefully. Just know this: Heroless/Herolite isn't dead!
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How long did each of those games take?
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How long did each of those games take?
He managed to beat me the first time I used the deck I played against you the last time we played in about 30 minutes, though that didn't include the actual resolution because I couldn't break through. I imagine in real life, the game would have taken roughly the same amount of time.
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How long did each of those games take?
I'm sure Jordan agrees with me on this, but time is usually not the biggest restraint. If you play your game right you'll win in the last ten minutes. With my Boston Nationals turtle deck I never timed out. You play your deck right and know that on your turn you put down what you have to quickly and pass to them. People say turtle decks always time out but I say they're playing them wrong. I hardly attack till the end when they are decked out. By then 90% of my RA's are redeemed points. Since you are not attacking, and they are never defending, and eventually they can't really attack either, time is not an issue.
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That's not the issue. The issue is people deliberately stalling to force a timeout.
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That's when a necessary call out comes into play. If they know they got beat, then they should not be stalling. If they are and have nothing to do and are just looking at their artifact piles, let them for one turn. Then next turn you say nothing changed, stop stalling. I respect players who admit defeat and learn, than players who stall and learn nothing. This still goes back to my original point , if you are hardly attacking, and they are never blocking, which is a large chunk of time, then you have more time left for the last 15 or so minutes. Eventually they are not attacking, or do not attack every turn due to the size/meanness of your defense, which is more time for you. If you play turtle move fast on your turn and do not attack till they are gasping for air.
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@Hiatus, the problem is, the rules allow for a very generous amount of time taken each turn, even if doing nothing. There is nothing illegal about using all of the time you are allowed. As to whether "stalling" is illegal, who's to say otherwise if they claim they're thinking? In fact, I see turtle players playing very slow all the time because they are thinking.
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@Hiatus, the problem is, the rules allow for a very generous amount of time taken each turn, even if doing nothing...if they claim they're thinking? In fact, I see turtle players playing very slow all the time because they are thinking.
Playing slow because you have a lot of important decisions to make is one thing. Playing slow and claiming to be thinking when you have no heroes to possibly attack with, and no ECs who can possibly block, and no artifacts that can possibly make a difference, etc....that is just stalling. And I suspect that any judge would rule it that way.
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Daniel, you are right in that sense. If they are truly thinking, and yes, who is to say they are not. Majority times it is Prof's example that tends to be true, sadly.
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Right now, Demons/something is probably the best way to go on turtle but you must play with household idols in defense heavy. On offense I would use gold. MtM, Lazarus, WS, or even TGT they get through auto-block defenses like no tommorow.
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A clever player will catch wind of a turtle long before he's actually been shut down, and start playing slower accordingly. In fact, if I were in that situation I would spend a lot of time legitimately thinking, since when a turtle is involved the game becomes much more like chess in that you have to think of every single card in your deck and every single card that's probably in their deck, weigh the probabilities of what's in their hand at a given time, and fight for 3 total rescues rather than trying to rescue as quickly as possible.
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when a turtle is involved the game becomes much more like chess in that you have to think of every single card in your deck and every single card that's probably in their deck, weigh the probabilities of what's in their hand at a given time, and fight for 3 total rescues rather than trying to rescue as quickly as possible.
Which is EXACTLY why having turtle decks in the meta make the game more fun and strategic. If only the time limits were longer to make that possible. And if only the offenses weren't so strong this year that they eat defenses for breakfast.
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when a turtle is involved the game becomes much more like chess in that you have to think of every single card in your deck and every single card that's probably in their deck, weigh the probabilities of what's in their hand at a given time, and fight for 3 total rescues rather than trying to rescue as quickly as possible.
Which is EXACTLY why having turtle decks in the meta make the game more fun and strategic. If only the time limits were longer to make that possible. And if only the offenses weren't so strong this year that they eat defenses for breakfast.
This year? How about almost every year.
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With all the new CBN negate/discards as well as the speed, it's even worse than usual. I'd really like to see a well-built turtle decklist.
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turtles CAN work IF they use small ECs with suicide EEs that protect or shuffle lost souls.
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Which is EXACTLY why having turtle decks in the meta make the game more fun and strategic. If only the time limits were longer to make that possible. And if only the offenses weren't so strong this year that they eat defenses for breakfast.
I disagree about the "fun" aspect. If I want to play chess, I'll play chess. Some people may enjoy playing Turtle, and a select few may even enjoy playing against it, but I doubt most people appreciate 1/2 their deck being pointless and having only 1/2 the battle phases of a normal game.
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I find it funny that one of the largest proponents of turtle decks is also one of the most vocal opponents of speed decks. They are the same deck, just reversed.
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If I want to play chess, I'll play chess.
In this case your comparison to chess is really saying that it makes the game strategic. So now you are being unfair in saying that you don't want Redemption to be chess. A good example of a game that is un-strategic and totally dependent on what card you draw is Candyland. I could just as unfairly say, that if I want to play Candyland, then I play Candyland.
But that would be unfair to speed games of Redemption (which most players would admit DO come down to the draw when played between top players).
Some people may enjoy playing Turtle, and a select few may even enjoy playing against it, but I doubt most people appreciate 1/2 their deck being pointless and having only 1/2 the battle phases of a normal game.
Actually I find that there are MORE battle phases when playing a game with a turtle in it. In a speed vs. speed game, there are almost no battles since neither has defense other than to help draw faster. And in speed vs. balanced, there are few battles since the speed deck usually attacks in a way that there is no way to stop, and has nothing to stop the balanced deck's attacks. And both of these games are over before the decks are half finished anyway.
When there is a turtle involved, then the game lasts long enough for the speed or balanced player to deck out. Therefore there are more battle phases. And the speed or balanced player definitely has offense, and the turtle definitely has defense, so the battles are actually really fun and interesting.
I find it funny that one of the largest proponents of turtle decks is also one of the most vocal opponents of speed decks. They are the same deck, just reversed.
I'm actually a proponent of variety. If everyone played a turtle deck, then the game would not be very fun. But currently almost all top players play speed, therefore I try to push the game toward balanced or turtle decks.
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I don't get it. Every game comes down to the draw. Why bother to only talk about it for speed decks?
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Turtle decks. The deck Redemption needs, but not the one it wants.
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The comparison to chess is not to say that it's more strategic, but that it's solved. I don't have to wonder what kind of offense you have because it's one Hero with an Ignore ability. I don't have to wonder which defensive cards you've chosen to include because you've included all of them. And for your part, you don't have to make the strategic decision of whether to attack or who to attack with based on whether I may have CM or Plot or Confusion or DoU or any other given variable because you don't attack.
Turtle v. Turtle would be even less strategic than speed v. speed, so if you want to make a fair comparison let's talk about that.
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The comparison to chess is not to say that it's more strategic, but that it's solved. I don't have to wonder what kind of offense you have because it's one Hero with an Ignore ability.
There's more than one kind of turtle offense; a small TGT or Isaiah offense can also quite easily be considered "Turtle," not to mention Saul/Paul or ET.
I don't have to wonder which defensive cards you've chosen to include because you've included all of them.
There are a lot of different approaches to a turtle defense; most people won't dispute that Gates of Samaria is the best, but the subject of Assyrian splash comes into play, not to mention different brown cards that you decide to use.
Turtle v. Turtle would be even less strategic than speed v. speed, so if you want to make a fair comparison let's talk about that.
Turtle v. Turtle, while boring, takes a lot of strategy, because it does indeed become a game of chess.
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This year? How about almost every year.
In regards to offenses being stronger than defenses-
No way, past two years I did exceptionally well with defensive heavy decks. Last year if you could stop TGT/Disciples you were good. The year before if you could stop Teal/Green or TealTomb, you were good. Now you have to stop everything.
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This year? How about almost every year.
In regards to offenses being stronger than defenses-
No way, past two years I did exceptionally well with defensive heavy decks. Last year if you could stop TGT/Disciples you were good. The year before if you could stop Teal/Green or TealTomb, you were good. Now you have to stop everything.
The thing is though, the same cards shut down almost everything. The meta is diverse, but all the strong offenses share some of the same weaknesses. Naz shuts down Genesis and Sam decks, especially with CP to protect it. Household Idols, Hezekiah's Signet Ring, Rain Becomes Dust, and Covenant with Death pretty much shut down everything else as well. If you put up a Temple with Lampstand on it, your HHI (which destroys all Sam decks) is completely protected, your RBD (destroys Disciples and Gardensciples) is completely protected, and a large defense obviously works well against TGT itself.
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Naz shuts down Genesis and Sam decks,
Angel with the Secret Name for Sam. And how does Naz affect Genesis decks? I run a Genesis deck and could care less, I have so many hero's/CBN enhs with Abe's kid to back them up that I don't beed to search.
Household Idols, Hezekiah's Signet Ring, Rain Becomes Dust, and Covenant with Death pretty much shut down everything else as well.
Ok, so which one are you going to activate? All are easy to get rid of now too, let alone Captured Ark. So activate one I attack with something else that your artifact doesn't target.
If you put up a Temple with Lampstand on it, your HHI (which destroys all Sam decks) is completely protected, your RBD (destroys Disciples and Gardensciples) is completely protected, and a large defense obviously works well against TGT itself.
So Lampstand stops DoN on HHI...how is this completely protected? And have you played a Sam deck? They still have protection, Samuel's Edict, and some include slight recursion. Also they have counters for HHI, such as Cov W/ Moses and Cov W/ David. Rain Becomes Dust is not used all too much, and when that is activated you don't attack to draw, you just attack.
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Turtle vs. Turtle doesn't necessarily take any strategy. More than likely, it'll end as a 3-2 game or something like that. However, the more diverse deck types we have, the more strategy you have in building your deck and playing. When all you play against is speed, you're more likely to make sub-optimal plays against a turtle or balanced deck. So having turtles is a good thing. Having a bunch of turtles is a bad thing.
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Angel with the Secret Name for Sam. And how does Naz affect Genesis decks? I run a Genesis deck and could care less, I have so many hero's/CBN enhs with Abe's kid to back them up that I don't beed to search.
The strongest Genesis decks need search to get everything running quickly because they don't have much drawing (Gentyptians aside). In general, if Genesis hasn't gotten Joseph or at least Zebulun out in the first two or three turns, it's going to lose, because it falls behind too quickly. If an early Naz or Signet Ring comes out and Genesis hasn't drawn a way to stop it, it won't be able to recover against another fast offense (Genyptians, TGT, Disciples, or Sam).
Ok, so which one are you going to activate? All are easy to get rid of now too, let alone Captured Ark. So activate one I attack with something else that your artifact doesn't target.
Pretty much every widely-used offense takes a hit from one specific artifact; at least a big enough hit to allow the opponent's offense a potentially huge advantage. Samuel decks get shut down by HHI, because more than anything they rely on cards that band. Without the use of any banding heroes, standalone defenses can make a few blocks, which makes all the difference. Genesis, as mentioned, gets shut down by Hezzy's Signet Ring, because the best Genesis decks require search to set up quickly. Gardensciples and Disciples both take a massive hit from RBD, and if that gets taken out by Passover Hymn, Cov w/ Death or HHI also work well to, at the very least, limit your opponent's options. Nazareth makes Captured Ark a dead card, and a Lampstand on a Temple protects from DoN. That means that the only cards that can stop artifacts are relatively niche, and not a lot of decks use them right now.
So Lampstand stops DoN on HHI...how is this completely protected? And have you played a Sam deck? They still have protection, Samuel's Edict, and some include slight recursion. Also they have counters for HHI, such as Cov W/ Moses and Cov W/ David
Who uses Covenant with Moses or Covenant with David? I have indeed played Sam decks, and I know how they function, primarily with speed. If you don't get any anti-meta cards out in the first couple turns, then yes, most Samuel decks will have gotten a large enough advantage to win. However, with HHI out, Sam can't enter battle, Abby can't enter battle, no FBTNB heroes can enter battle - it really, really limits the options that Sam decks have.
I'm not saying that anti-meta cards are infallible, however, they're a lot more effective than you seem to think.
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The strongest Genesis decks need search to get everything running quickly because they don't have much drawing (Gentyptians aside).
Yes but the top deck is not Genesis offense, something on defense, it is Genyptians. I would not go to a competitive tournament with a Genesis offense, with out having a Genesis defense, just because you have to draw to get your offense rolling, and the defense does this. I agree, just Genesis offenses would get stalled out, and toss-up on losing, but competitively you wouldn't see a top ranked deck running straight blue and something else on defense. No offense to whoever is running it, I just do not see it as strong.
In general, if Genesis hasn't gotten Joseph or at least Zebulun out in the first two or three turns, it's going to lose, because it falls behind too quickly. If an early Naz or Signet Ring comes out and Genesis hasn't drawn a way to stop it, it won't be able to recover against another fast offense (Genyptians, TGT, Disciples, or Sam).
Ok so in general if they haven't gotten out Naz or Signet ring, offense wins? It's two cards verse two cards...poor example. More than likely the Genesis deck will be fifty cards compared to the defensive heavy 63+.
Pretty much every widely-used offense takes a hit from one specific artifact; at least a big enough hit to allow the opponent's offense a potentially huge advantage. Samuel decks get shut down by HHI, because more than anything they rely on cards that band. Without the use of any banding heroes, standalone defenses can make a few blocks, which makes all the difference. Genesis, as mentioned, gets shut down by Hezzy's Signet Ring, because the best Genesis decks require search to set up quickly. Gardensciples and Disciples both take a massive hit from RBD, and if that gets taken out by Passover Hymn, Cov w/ Death or HHI also work well to, at the very least, limit your opponent's options. Nazareth makes Captured Ark a dead card, and a Lampstand on a Temple protects from DoN. That means that the only cards that can stop artifacts are relatively niche, and not a lot of decks use them right now.
Yes Sam decks get hurt by HHI, but what Sam player does not include plenty of counters to this? And I still disagree on Signet Ring hurting Genesis offense. They have Benjamin, Joseph, and Jacob as their main hero's. I am sure opening hand you should get one in a 50 card deck, or at least by turn three, ASSUMING you have Signet Ring up turn 1... Garden/Di don't take a massive hit. They have some of the best bands in the offense and have some of the best battle winners in the offense. Sure they draw to help them get those, but these decks will always have something to attack with, RBD might stall it, but now you have to have RBD up the majority of the time. Artifacts do always hurt offenses, I agree with you on that, but what I am saying is these decks are faster than the decks that use all these counters, and they have ways of getting rid of the artifacts. You speak as though you 'll have RBD/HHI/Lampstand and a temple all within the very beginning. The offenses are too fast for that, and don't necessarily need to draw a bunch to get out everything. Sure you might get a counter or two opening hand, but they'll have something else to RA with. In order to shut these offenses down, you need all your counters at the very beginning pretty much, not going to happen.
Who uses Covenant with Moses or Covenant with David? I have indeed played Sam decks, and I know how they function, primarily with speed. If you don't get any anti-meta cards out in the first couple turns, then yes, most Samuel decks will have gotten a large enough advantage to win. However, with HHI out, Sam can't enter battle, Abby can't enter battle, no FBTNB heroes can enter battle - it really, really limits the options that Sam decks have.
Why would a Sam deck not use Cov W/ Moses? It runs Moses, stops Writ/Shroud/HHI, and is a 7/0 for your fbtnb...People don't run it because they are not seeing HHI enough, forgot about the card, or because the first Sam deck made that started stomping people didn't use it. HHI does severely hurt a Sam deck, I just think you are assuming all the counters are out at the very beginning. These decks are faster, and unless the defense gets lucky, they get what they need.
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I think you have a false idea of what an anti-meta deck looks like this season. First off, it's not 63+ cards; an effective anti-meta can quite easily be built at 56 if the user chooses, though 63 may indeed be ideal. Second, artifacts are not the only thing that make an anti-meta deck what it is; take a look at what brown defenses look like this year. A Gates of Samaria defense supplemented by Broken Cisterns, Gomer, Uzzah, and Haman's Plot, not to mention various other evil enhancements is a force to be reckoned with unless a speed deck gets a truly superb draw. I simply don't think you've played anti-meta and so you have a bleak view of it.
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I've played extremely well-crafted antimeta decks, using stereotypical speed decks, and haven't lost but maybe one (and if I did it was 4-5). The most recent game had some horrible mistakes on my end, an unbelievable draw on my opponent's (cisterns out turn 1, IoJ on TGT turn 2), and I still won.
I really, really, really wish antimeta could be good, but it just takes so much luck to get something into place before the speed deck has already blown past that chokepoint.
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I think you have a false idea of what an anti-meta deck looks like this season. First off, it's not 63+ cards; an effective anti-meta can quite easily be built at 56 if the user chooses, though 63 may indeed be ideal.
Wait, what!? I think you have a false idea of what you are trying to say. You say it CAN be effective at 56, but 63 is ideal, which is what I said.
Second, artifacts are not the only thing that make an anti-meta deck what it is;
True, but those are the only counters you said.
take a look at what brown defenses look like this year. A Gates of Samaria defense supplemented by Broken Cisterns, Gomer, Uzzah, and Haman's Plot, not to mention various other evil enhancements is a force to be reckoned with unless a speed deck gets a truly superb draw. I simply don't think you've played anti-meta and so you have a bleak view of it.
So you gave a commonly played defense this season, and said I have a bleak view of anti-meta decks. You gave artifacts as you counter, and gave a stereotypical defense. Majority of the opinions on here have said defenses are too weak this year to counter offenses, and you gave counters, and one defense, that's take A LOT to set up. If you look at your points you will see that by trying to justify defenses as being able to stop offenses, you actually unjustified it. You gave artifacts as your counter, said you need a good draw to set up, and gave 1 slow defense compared to all the fast, strong offenses this season. Trust me, I am a huge defensive heavy type 1 player, and past two seasons I have stopped all the top offenses, but this season I do not think I will be going this way, let alone type 1 at all, like I did in the past for fun.
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There's more than one kind of turtle offense; a small TGT or Isaiah offense can also quite easily be considered "Turtle," not to mention Saul/Paul or ET.
And there's even more options than that :)
No way, past two years I did exceptionally well with defensive heavy decks. Last year if you could stop TGT/Disciples you were good. The year before if you could stop Teal/Green or TealTomb, you were good. Now you have to stop everything.
I agree with Tyler that this is the main problem with Turtles this year. There are too many options for really strong offenses. And although the "anti-meta" cards mentioned in the above posts are nice, you have to draw them, and they are too easy to take out. The best is probably Naz + CP + HHI + temple + LotS. But that's asking a lot to get all together before you lose to a speedy offense.
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Wait, what!? I think you have a false idea of what you are trying to say. You say it CAN be effective at 56, but 63 is ideal, which is what I said.
"More than likely the Genesis deck will be fifty cards compared to the defensive heavy 63+." That is what you said; you didn't give any indication that a 56 card turtle was at all viable. I said 63 cards might be ideal, not that it definitely is, and honestly, I think 56 cards is probably better (though most anti-meta decks I've seen are at 63-70 cards, which I why I said 63 might be ideal).
So you gave a commonly played defense this season, and said I have a bleak view of anti-meta decks. You gave artifacts as you counter, and gave a stereotypical defense. Majority of the opinions on here have said defenses are too weak this year to counter offenses, and you gave counters, and one defense, that's take A LOT to set up. If you look at your points you will see that by trying to justify defenses as being able to stop offenses, you actually unjustified it. You gave artifacts as your counter, said you need a good draw to set up, and gave 1 slow defense compared to all the fast, strong offenses this season. Trust me, I am a huge defensive heavy type 1 player, and past two seasons I have stopped all the top offenses, but this season I do not think I will be going this way, let alone type 1 at all, like I did in the past for fun.
Samaria is far from commonly played, and even less common in the form of a pure anti-meta. It doesn't even take a lot to set up if you actually put a few search cards in, and in the mean time, there's enough stuff it has that doesn't revolve around GoS itself to stall quite effectively. Worst comes to worst, site stall is entirely possible if necessary, since most GoS use between 4-6 Samarias, plus Nazareth. I never said that it would be winning any high level tournaments, and if you look at other threads, you'll note that I'm pretty well convinced that 50-52 card speed decks (generally Sam or Gardensciples) are the undisputed best. My point is that they are way more effective than you give them credit for, and they can most definitely do well against top offenses if built and piloted by a good player.
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I never said that it would be winning any high level tournaments, and if you look at other threads, you'll note that I'm pretty well convinced that 50-52 card speed decks (generally Sam or Gardensciples) are the undisputed best.
And really that is the point. In the current game, it seems to be impossible to win the highest level tournaments with turtle decks. That is why almost all the top players don't play them. This leads to lack of variety, and that is what I'd like to see change.
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I never said that it would be winning any high level tournaments, and if you look at other threads, you'll note that I'm pretty well convinced that 50-52 card speed decks (generally Sam or Gardensciples) are the undisputed best.
I consistently say, HIGH-LEVEL or competitive tournament. Why would we be debating if defensive heavy decks are strong enough this year for locals...? I do think defensive heavy decks are strong, but this season they are not strong enough.
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I never said that it would be winning any high level tournaments, and if you look at other threads, you'll note that I'm pretty well convinced that 50-52 card speed decks (generally Sam or Gardensciples) are the undisputed best.
And really that is the point. In the current game, it seems to be impossible to win the highest level tournaments with turtle decks. That is why almost all the top players don't play them. This leads to lack of variety, and that is what I'd like to see change.
Because turtle deck have and always will be lower tier compared to smaller, more efficient decks. Turtle decks have to be prepared for anything. There's too much in efficiency in them to win.
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I don't think its impossible, in fact I predict turtle will take nats this year. I can feel it in my feet. ;) If I am wrong I will personally renounce the SQF in all its greatness and give all of my ques to RDT. I kid you not. Counter bets? ;)
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I don't think its impossible, in fact I predict turtle will take nats this year. I can feel it in my feet. ;) If I am wrong I will personally renounce the SQF in all its greatness and give all of my ques to RDT. I kid you not. Counter bets? ;)
I'll take this. If the deck that wins this years nats is a turtle deck I'll wear a Tim Tebow jersey to the award ceremony (i had to pick something that people on the boards would understand WHY it was embarrassing for me. Let's not start a Tebow discussion again.)
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I don't think its impossible, in fact I predict turtle will take nats this year. I can feel it in my feet. ;) If I am wrong I will personally renounce the SQF in all its greatness and give all of my ques to RDT. I kid you not. Counter bets? ;)
I like how you didn't specify what category.
Booster turtle FTW!
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Type 1. I think you could say rank top 3 and people would still take the bet.
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Well if there's a surprising deck type that wins Nats this year, I'll put my money on the bet that it's in the hands of Mr. TimMierz! ;)
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
I don't think its impossible, in fact I predict turtle will take nats this year. I can feel it in my feet. ;) If I am wrong I will personally renounce the SQF in all its greatness and give all of my ques to RDT. I kid you not. Counter bets? ;)
I'll take this. If the deck that wins this years nats is a turtle deck I'll wear a Tim Tebow jersey to the award ceremony (i had to pick something that people on the boards would understand WHY it was embarrassing for me. Let's not start a Tebow discussion again.)
I was planning on using my speed deck for nats, but now I'm hands down playing a turtle deck.
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I think we're going to see a lot of turtles this year now. ;D
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
That's crazy talk! ;)
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Time to learn to play this little turtle in my deck box.... Maybe he's fun... lol
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
From the last couple replies I think I can proclaim that you and I have balanced redemption. High five.
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Ooh, now I just need to hope that T1-2P and T2-2P are on different days. Seeing lp wear a Tebow jersey AND MKC vs. Escalator Round 2 would be awesome. But still not enough for me to abandon T2-2P in favor of T1.
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If anyone has a Tebow jersey please bring it to nats. I obviously don't have one and I am way too poor to buy one so we may have to improvise.
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
From the last couple replies I think I can proclaim that you and I have balanced redemption. High five.
If only it was that easy. Many moons ago, I tried to balance T1-mp by creating a group called MASK (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/official-tournaments/mask*-players-please-report-immediately!/msg195972/#msg195972). It totally failed due to people who had talked all year about playing a different style of T1-mp, ended up playing Booster instead. I suspect the same thing will happen here. People will talk of playing turtles, and then we'll get to Nats, and everyone will still be playing Gardensciples, Sam, and Geneptians.
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
From the last couple replies I think I can proclaim that you and I have balanced redemption. High five.
If only it was that easy. Many moons ago, I tried to balance T1-mp by creating a group called MASK (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/official-tournaments/mask*-players-please-report-immediately!/msg195972/#msg195972). It totally failed due to people who had talked all year about playing a different style of T1-mp, ended up playing Booster instead. I suspect the same thing will happen here. People will talk of playing turtles, and then we'll get to Nats, and everyone will still be playing Gardensciples, Sam, and Geneptians.
Ah but can these people really pass up the sight of me in a Tebow jersey? Can you imagine the self loathing on my face during the award ceremony? *shudder*
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I hold that the Nats winning deck will have some elements of an anti-meta deck. For a full-on anti-meta deck to win is absurd, and even placing is unlikely. Now that said, I'd put forth a large amount of money on the bet that there will be a few anti-meta staples in the winning deck. Maybe a prophets deck with HHI, or anything with HSR and RBD. I have no idea, since I've always been bad at anti-meta, but I think the evidence is pretty heavy towards that side. I'm looking forward to seeing what the meta looks like this season once we get into the big tournaments starting in May.
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
From the last couple replies I think I can proclaim that you and I have balanced redemption. High five.
If only it was that easy. Many moons ago, I tried to balance T1-mp by creating a group called MASK (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/official-tournaments/mask*-players-please-report-immediately!/msg195972/#msg195972). It totally failed due to people who had talked all year about playing a different style of T1-mp, ended up playing Booster instead. I suspect the same thing will happen here. People will talk of playing turtles, and then we'll get to Nats, and everyone will still be playing Gardensciples, Sam, and Geneptians.
Yep. It turns out people want to win or get new cards. That's a real shocker.
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I'll take the bet. If turtle wins this years nats, I will run up an escalator. Backwards.
From the last couple replies I think I can proclaim that you and I have balanced redemption. High five.
If only it was that easy. Many moons ago, I tried to balance T1-mp by creating a group called MASK (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/official-tournaments/mask*-players-please-report-immediately!/msg195972/#msg195972). It totally failed due to people who had talked all year about playing a different style of T1-mp, ended up playing Booster instead. I suspect the same thing will happen here. People will talk of playing turtles, and then we'll get to Nats, and everyone will still be playing Gardensciples, Sam, and Geneptians.
Only for the first few rounds. I have a history with turtles. Have no fear.
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I hold that the Nats winning deck will have some elements of an anti-meta deck. For a full-on anti-meta deck to win is absurd, and even placing is unlikely
:o :o :o
Two years ago I made a deck in the airport, I think, that I had no testing, and no tweaking, and forgot some cards, and was one mistake to getting second place, and one block from first place. I got third in Boston with my A-Bomb turtle deck. Ring Wraith was making a similar copy last year and Nathan came and got me to critique. I fixed up his deck, and it ended up being a few cards shy of my original version, and it got third. I am not sure how close he was to second or first, but two years straight that "The Turtle", as I call it since it dominated two years at nationals, ranked. I think a fast offensive heavy deck, a balanced deck, and a turtle will rank 1-3. I'd bet that the balanced deck gets first, offensive 2nd, turtle 3rd.
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I hold that the Nats winning deck will have some elements of an anti-meta deck. For a full-on anti-meta deck to win is absurd, and even placing is unlikely
:o :o :o
Two years ago I made a deck in the airport, I think, that I had no testing, and no tweaking, and forgot some cards, and was one mistake to getting second place, and one block from first place. I got third in Boston with my A-Bomb turtle deck. Ring Wraith was making a similar copy last year and Nathan came and got me to critique. I fixed up his deck, and it ended up being a few cards shy of my original version, and it got third. I am not sure how close he was to second or first, but two years straight that "The Turtle", as I call it since it dominated two years at nationals, ranked. I think a fast offensive heavy deck, a balanced deck, and a turtle will rank 1-3. I'd bet that the balanced deck gets first, offensive 2nd, turtle 3rd.
It was basically the same without sites. I actually built my TEAMS deck based on your deck, and then didn't have a T1 one day so I ripped a deck out of the TEAMS decks. I loved playing it, so I stuck with it.
Had I beat John Earley I probably would have won (I guess I would have played a different opponent last round, so I might have lost that game then), but I made a sub-optimal play. He rescued MMoJ to Salome and I could have used Charms, but I decided to use Goliath to try to snag a different character than Salome (I was still going to capture MMoJ). He drops a Lydia from hand, which I should have thought about. :\
All in all, I think a Turtle has a pretty good shot at second, but I'm skeptical of a first.
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Ooh, now I just need to hope that T1-2P and T2-2P are on different days. Seeing lp wear a Tebow jersey AND MKC vs. Escalator Round 2 would be awesome. But still not enough for me to abandon T2-2P in favor of T1.
I assume it will be at different times as most nationals other than MN pair them separetely, however you may have to give up your chance to defend your type 2 multi title.
If anyone has a Tebow jersey please bring it to nats. I obviously don't have one and I am way too poor to buy one so we may have to improvise.
I got you.
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What size is it?
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I don't know what size do want it to be. :P I haven't bought it yet but I usually go with xl or xxl for jerseys (you can't keep it though) ;)
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either of those is fine. I just wanted to make sure it would be big enough that if I ended up having to wear it I wouldn't accidentally rip it on you. (and don't worry, I do not want to keep it)
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I assume it will be at different times as most nationals other than MN pair them separetely, however you may have to give up your chance to defend your type 2 multi title.
I have a good hunch that Jordan can play both t1 2p and t2 2p this year.
:-*