Author Topic: Daniel Deck (Read 5779 times)

Sean · « **on:** April 03, 2019, 05:09:28 PM »

So I saw The Foretelling Angel's potential and put together this deck list. I do not have all the cards for it but wanted to throw it out there for ridicule...I mean constructive critique. The idea is to get your entire deck out in 1 or 2 turns so that you can just "Rack, Shack, And Benny" band your way to the win.

Due to the lack of battle winners, I'm thinking that the Cloud of Witnesses Daniel is probably a better option that the Promo/LR but I'm interested in your thoughts on that because of the benefit of additional banding as well as Fortress negation with the Promo/LR version. With the ability to use Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin to pull Dominants from Reserve.

The biggest need is to have cards that will pull The Foretelling Angel out ASAP so I'm looking for suggestions on how to do that. I'm looking for cards that exchange or take from deck. I was thinking that relying on a card to pull him from Reserve would be a bad idea.

I do have a few non-Daniel cards for obvious reasons and I started with Babylon just because they have the most volume and the most oompf but it would be great if I could somehow go Greek or Persian. Not super excited about trying to splash my way to a good defense. There is still a lot of work that is needed to even make this a good deck list but it is a start. Sorry for the bad format, I can fix it tomorrow.

It should also be noted that there is a topic that was started back in October and Gabe had put links in but there were also references to POC phase 2 cards so I don't know if he Moderator snuck them in there.

Deck
Daniel
Shadrach
Meshach
Abednego
The Foretelling Angel
Michael
Gabriel
Daniel's Guardian
Servant's by the River

Unbound
Undefiled
Unbowed
Michael's Sword
Swift Beings
The Coming Prince
Wheel within a Wheel

Bab Soldiers
King Belshazzar
Nebuchadnezzar
Lions
Chaldeans (Promo)
The Winged Lion
B's Mom

Thrown to the Beasts
Great Image
Head of Gold
Nezzar's Dream
Nezzar's Pride
B's Banquet
Cut Off

Cast into Lions' Den
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin
Eternal Judgement

Darius' Decree
I Am Creator
The Great White Throne

Fiery Furnace

Lions' Den (White/Silver)
Banquet Hall

Son of God
The Second Coming
Angel of the Lord
Destruction of Nehushtan

Covenant Breakers
Lost Soul (not sure what to use)
Lost Soul (not sure what to use)
Lost Soul (not sure what to use)
Lost Soul (not sure what to use)
Lost Soul (not sure what to use)
Lost Soul (not sure what to use)

Reserve

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2019, 05:32:57 PM »

Just a note you cant start with dominates in your reserve

777Godspeed · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2019, 06:08:57 PM »

The Angel of the Winds exchanges with a human hero in your deck. Wheel within a Wheel will let you get an OT Angel out of your deck and then it can be placed on an Angel for protection from opponents dominants, get site access and is Territory Class.

Godspeed,
Mike

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2019, 08:42:47 AM »

I love this deck concept and I think it’ll Ben very popular especially when people start catching on that the Daniel band is very tough to stop. I personally like Daniel promo over CoW all day. You’ll find that negating forts, LS’s, NT enhs and ECs is way stronger than CoW Daniel’s ability. Daniel band that does everything I just listed plus CBI band, protect lost souls and protected from discard now band to Michael with his sword and how can you stop that? You have negates too so they have to play a CBN enh that targets everyone consistently. And once you have Foretelling Angel out even if they scatter you that’s fine, you attack next turn with the same band. I would have a few non Daniel cards to get out the band as fast as possible and you can do that a few different ways with white. Love Righteousness to get out Daniel and play wheel within a wheel for Foretelling. Daniel/your angels to play angelic guidance to get out foretelling also helps. I Am Creator and Great White Throne always helps. You don’t need 43 of the 50 cards to be Daniel for Foretlling to work, he will work just fine. And everything you take out for those few cards I mentioned theoretically are to get out Foretelling so they won’t be in your deck to slow down your Daniel top deck. All those cards you take out can go into the reserve and it just keeps on drawing. I can’t wait to see people play this deck and see how fast it is. Thanks for posting it, this is a very solid layout of what I think will be a very popular deck list.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2019, 09:19:55 AM »

I love this idea, so I went with it and came up with my version based on this one. Cards with a * next to it are non-Daniel, everything else is. 22 our of 50 cards in deck are non-Daniel, 13 of them are doms and LS's, 9 are not

Doms:
SoG*
TSC*
Angel*
3W*
CM*
FA (womens)*
Mayhem*

LS:
Cov Breakers
Humble*
Lawless*
Imitate *
Dull*
Hand reveal*
Remant*

neutral/forts:
Cast into Lions' Den
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin
Eternal Judgement
Fiery Furnace
Coliseum *
GWT*
Magic Charms*
Storehouse*

Heroes:
Daniel (promo)
Shadrach
Meshach
Abednego
The Foretelling Angel
Michael
Gabriel
Daniel's Guardian
Servant's by the River

GE:
the coming prince
undefiled
WWW*
Angelic guidance *
Faith *

EC:
King Belshazzar
Nebuchadnezzar
Lions
The Winged Lion
Babylonian soldiers
Conjurers
Soothsayers of Bab
Astrologers
deceiver*

EE:
Head of Gold
Nezzar's Dream
B's Banquet
Cut Off
wages of sin*

reserve:
Faith of moses parents*
unbowed
stone cut without hands
Flying scroll*
Cov with death *
Seized by Babylon *
regrets*
Death of unrighteous*
bab seige army *
Bab merchants*

Sean · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2019, 10:11:07 AM »

OK, so why can't you start with Dominants in reserve? Like what's the logic behind that?

Sean · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2019, 10:15:29 AM »

Quote from: sepjazzwarrior on April 04, 2019, 09:19:55 AM

I love this idea, so I went with it and came up with my version based on this one. Cards with a * next to it are non-Daniel, everything else is. 21 our of 50 cards in deck are non-Daniel, 13 of them are doms and LS's, 8 are not

Doms:
SoG*
TSC*
Angel*
3W*
CM*
FA (womens)*
DoN (PoC)*

LS:
Cov Breakers
covet*
wanderer*
darkness*
Humble*
Lost boy*
Distress*

neutral/forts:
Cast into Lions' Den
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin
Eternal Judgement
Fiery Furnace
Darius Decree
Book of the Cov*
GWT*
Magic Charms*

Heroes:
Daniel (promo)
Shadrach
Meshach
Abednego
The Foretelling Angel
Michael
Gabriel
Daniel's Guardian
Servant's by the River

GE:
the coming prince
undefiled
WWW*
Everlasting Beings*

EC:
King Belshazzar
Nebuchadnezzar
Lions
The Winged Lion
Chaldeans (Promo)
Conjurers
Soothsayers of Bab
Astrologers
deceiver*

EE:
Head of Gold
Nezzar's Dream
B's Banquet
Cut Off
invoking terror*
wages of sin*

reserve:
I am creator*
YWR*
eternal cov*
unbowed
stone cut without hands
regrets*
great image
bel's mom
FW*
uzzah*

What is WWW? GWT? FW?

Sean · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2019, 10:18:38 AM »

Quote from: 777Godspeed on April 03, 2019, 06:08:57 PM

The Angel of the Winds exchanges with a human hero in your deck. Wheel within a Wheel will let you get an OT Angel out of your deck and then can it be placed on an Angel for protection from opponents dominants, get site access and is Territory Class.

Godspeed,
Mike

If you draw The Foretelling Angel and Wheel within a Wheel at the same time, can you discard tFA and then play Wheel to get him back and protect him? or do the rules surrounding when you can play territory class enhancements not allow for that?

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2019, 10:22:39 AM »

www-wheel within a wheel
gwt-the great white throne
fw-foreign wives

the search and place are 2 separate abilities, so you can play foretelling angel from hand, play www on him to search for a different angel, and then place www on foretelling angel

its just a game rule that dominates and LS's (except the hopper LS, sicne it doesn't count towards LS count) cannot start in your reserve

goalieking87 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2019, 10:24:27 AM »

Quote from: Sean on April 04, 2019, 10:18:38 AM

Quote from: 777Godspeed on April 03, 2019, 06:08:57 PM
The Angel of the Winds exchanges with a human hero in your deck. Wheel within a Wheel will let you get an OT Angel out of your deck and then can it be placed on an Angel for protection from opponents dominants, get site access and is Territory Class.

Godspeed,
Mike
If you draw The Foretelling Angel and Wheel within a Wheel at the same time, can you discard tFA and then play Wheel to get him back and protect him? or do the rules surrounding when you can play territory class enhancements not allow for that?

You can actually just put TFA in your territory and play WWW. It allows you to search your deck or discard for an OT Angel then place on your Angel (does not have to be the same one searched), so you have the option of leaving it on TFA as the placed enhancement.

One other note about your proposition: if you were to discard TFA and then play WWW, you would not be able to make a rescue attempt since you chose to enter your discard phase (which only occurs after the battle phase).

Sean · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2019, 01:02:23 PM »

OK, so here is a Dominant-less version of this idea for maximum draw out potential. The only cards that aren't Daniel are the Lost Souls, Wheel within a Wheel, I Am Creator, The Great White Throne, Samaritan Water Jar, and Wall of Protection. The Reserve is for generating Lost Souls to rescue and to add a ECs that aren't Daniel and were easily accessible to cards already being used. Abom+Kindness could pretty easily be worked in if someone wanted I think.

Deck
Daniel
Shadrach
Meshach
Abednego
The Foretelling Angel
Michael
Gabriel
Daniel's Guardian
Servant's by the River

Unbound
Undefiled
Unbowed
Michael's Sword
Swift Beings
The Coming Prince
Wheel within a Wheel

Bab Soldiers
King Belshazzar
Nebuchadnezzar
Lions
Chaldeans (Promo)
The Winged Lion
B's Mom
Conjurers

Thrown to the Beasts
Head of Gold
Nezzar's Dream
Nezzar's Pride
B's Banquet
Cut Off

Cast into Lions' Den
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin
Eternal Judgement

Darius' Decree
I Am Creator
The Great White Throne
Samaritan Water Jar

Fiery Furnace
Wall of Protection

Lions' Den (White/Silver)
Banquet Hall
Lion's Den (Red)
Lion's Den (Red)

Covenant Breakers
Exiles
Gain
Pigs
Revealer
Forsaken
Lawless

Reserve
Sower
The Thankful Leper
Woman at the Well
Gideon's Call
Negev Lions
Swift Horses
Nimrod the Mighty
The Bronze Laver
Lampstand of the Sanctuary

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2019, 01:43:44 PM »

What happens if someone gets an early discard or negate on FT? Or what I someone has any of the new cards out that punish you for drawing? RBD, PoZ, The Afflicted, all would wipe you out.

goalieking87 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on April 08, 2019, 01:43:44 PM

What happens if someone gets an early discard or negate on FT? Or what I someone has any of the new cards out that punish you for drawing? RBD, PoZ, The Afflicted, all would wipe you out.

What is FT?

TFA is CBN. It is also not a draw ability, but add to hand, so not sure the discard is relevant here. I am not seeing any other massive drawing cards.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2019, 03:04:23 PM »

TFA my bad, going off my phone. Good point on the adding to hand, I was more concerned with one card being the focal point. If he is removed then the entire deck is slowed down.

The Guardian · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2019, 03:07:11 PM »

Because there are no counters to TFA's ability and he's CBN, a Daniel deck does have the potential to be the fastest deck possible (limited only by hand limit rules), but as a couple players (who shall remain nameless) learned at the T2 Only, it's certainly not the most reliable option. The Foretelling Angel does tend to have a giant target on him once he starts going...

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2019, 03:13:09 PM »

I'll name the players! May or may not have been [Edited by R.O.S.E.S]!

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2019, 01:18:17 PM »

I definitely would not run this in a MP format but in T2 2P this seems fine because of Angelic Guidance or WWW to pop him back out and protect him from Woes. That and you could run multiples of him plus the good Daniel stuff.

The Guardian · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2019, 01:34:20 PM »

He's CBN so Woes isn't an issue.

The two issues I observed in MP were:
--Foretelling being hit by set aside abilities (so his TC ability stopped and another copy could not be put down)
--Foretelling being banded in by the other Daniel deck when it did not have its own Foretelling in play

Seems like Everlasting Ground would solve both of this issues though...

Gabe · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2019, 01:44:20 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on April 09, 2019, 01:34:20 PM

Seems like Everlasting Ground would solve both of this issues though...

If only there was a way to "reap the Whirlwind"!

thecoolguy · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2019, 01:46:11 PM »

ahhhhh that was punny

Kor · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2019, 12:41:44 AM »

I think you lose a large part of the impact of 'drawing' out your deck fast if you remove the dominants (aka free rescues/blocks). I get that maybe you don't want to have 7 doms, but I feel that at least some should probably make the cut. Otherwise what are you going through your deck so fast to get? More sub-par battle winners/characters?

The Guardian · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:01:10 AM »

Quote from: Kor on April 10, 2019, 12:41:44 AM

I think you lose a large part of the impact of 'drawing' out your deck fast if you remove the dominants (aka free rescues/blocks). I get that maybe you don't want to have 7 doms, but I feel that at least some should probably make the cut. Otherwise what are you going through your deck so fast to get? More sub-par battle winners/characters?

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2019, 08:00:34 AM »

What I've found in testing is this deck (my version, not Seans, I like Dominates) is like playing the lottery. If you get up TFA early and get some good draws with him, you'll do great, but if you dont you lose. The defense is pretty bad, it only has a few blocks in it, so you need to win super fast. It's fun to play though and is competitive, just not the most consistant.

Sean · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2019, 08:27:46 AM »

Quote from: Kor on April 10, 2019, 12:41:44 AM

I think you lose a large part of the impact of 'drawing' out your deck fast if you remove the dominants (aka free rescues/blocks). I get that maybe you don't want to have 7 doms, but I feel that at least some should probably make the cut. Otherwise what are you going through your deck so fast to get? More sub-par battle winners/characters?

Perfect for me to play against a 7 year old.

Kor · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2019, 10:53:37 AM »

Quote from: Sean on April 11, 2019, 08:27:46 AM

Quote from: Kor on April 10, 2019, 12:41:44 AM
I think you lose a large part of the impact of 'drawing' out your deck fast if you remove the dominants (aka free rescues/blocks). I get that maybe you don't want to have 7 doms, but I feel that at least some should probably make the cut. Otherwise what are you going through your deck so fast to get? More sub-par battle winners/characters?
Perfect for me to play against a 7 year old.

...ok? Are you striving for the ‘best’ deck to play against a 7-year old? I’m not even sure what that means. Clearly I misinterpreted ‘here is a dominant-less version for maximum draw potential’ when it really meant ‘I took out the dominants to take it easy on a 7-year okd’.

It is common knowledge that the Daniel enhancements are intentionally underpowered because of fortelling angel. I’m sorry if my comment sounded like I was attacking your enhancement choices specifically, I was not. Most enhancements seem pretty bad compared to Son of God.

goalieking87 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 11, 2019, 10:56:53 AM »

Quote from: Kor on April 11, 2019, 10:53:37 AM

Quote from: Sean on April 11, 2019, 08:27:46 AM
Quote from: Kor on April 10, 2019, 12:41:44 AM
I think you lose a large part of the impact of 'drawing' out your deck fast if you remove the dominants (aka free rescues/blocks). I get that maybe you don't want to have 7 doms, but I feel that at least some should probably make the cut. Otherwise what are you going through your deck so fast to get? More sub-par battle winners/characters?
Perfect for me to play against a 7 year old.

...ok? Are you striving for the ‘best’ deck to play against a 7-year old? I’m not even sure what that means. Clearly I misinterpreted ‘here is a dominant-less version for maximum draw potential’ when it really meant ‘I took out the dominants to take it easy on a 7-year okd’.

It is common knowledge that the Daniel enhancements are intentionally underpowered because of fortelling angel. I’m sorry if my comment sounded like I was attacking your enhancement choices specifically, I was not. Most enhancements seem pretty bad compared to Son of God.

Having young kids myself, it sounds like he was just wanting a fun deck to lay against his 7yr old. So, having a little less power and running no dominants, but having a fun deck to try to set up/play.

Sean · « **Reply #26 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:05:06 AM »

I have not played at all for over 10 years so I by no means can say I have made the best possible deck or even fully understand the comments/suggestions. I was just saying that since this one seems to be under powered that it would be nice for me to use as a deck when playing against my son. He is the 7 year old I was referring to.

I am also working off of a limited collection at this point so the ability to run a semi competitive deck with few Dominants is appealing to me. I am hopeful that with the Phase 2 cards that the power boost to the Daniel cards will make this surprisingly effective.

Are Daniel enhancements really purposefully under powered solely because of Foretelling Angel?

Josh · « **Reply #27 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:22:40 AM »

Quote from: Sean on April 11, 2019, 11:05:06 AM

Are Daniel enhancements really purposefully under powered solely because of Foretelling Angel?

Basically yes. I actually like the Daniel offense from a philosophical game perspective - not having OP/abusable GEs makes them different than other offenses. I like deck variety.

Gabe · « **Reply #28 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:23:58 AM »

Quote from: Sean on April 11, 2019, 11:05:06 AM

Are Daniel enhancements really purposefully under powered solely because of Foretelling Angel?

Yes, the good enhancements at least. Themes have their strengths and weaknesses. A pure Daniel deck can be extremely fast and has access to several strong characters but has limited options for powerful GEs. There are many really powerful GEs you can use with that offense, but they don't have a Daniel reference.

The Guardian · « **Reply #29 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:28:01 AM »

Relative to many other themes, they are less powerful, but they aren't outright useless.

Undefiled, Cast Into Lions Den and the new Stone Cut Without Hands are pretty good options. Unbound is a sneaky play with how popular Bab Merchants and Bab Siege Army are right now. Mene Mene can grab some non-Daniel battle winners or negates from the Reserve so they aren't clogging the main deck.

That being said, the strength of the Daniel deck has always been its speed with Foretelling and its CBN banding with Daniel & Abednego, and so we've decided to keep its enhancements a bit less powerful.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:56:29 AM »

Foretelling Angel needs some more counters to the tune of cards doing powerful things cbn except if opponents discards a card from deck. But foretelling angel has always been a very busted card and now its gaining more steam. First it covers it's own weakness (deck discard), second it gives you card advantage without drawing, and third it puts serious limitations on any Daniel card created stifling future card design. It's really a pain in every facet of this game except when you are running it, then it's pretty fun

Foretelling Angel is very innovative and hands down top 5 genius cards, but the ironic thing is all of his buffs (besides the top reveal and "draw") did not make Daniel a top offense that year. Now, imo, it can be a top offense without the deck protect and cbn.

Bobbert · « **Reply #31 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:08:19 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit on April 11, 2019, 11:56:29 AM

Foretelling Angel needs some more counters to the tune of cards doing powerful things cbn except if opponents discards a card from deck.

I actually used to love The Rabsaris Attacks, back when Siege Army and Survivor were newand I was bad at the game. I wouldn't mind seeing a couple more cards in a similar vein.

Sean · « **Reply #32 on:** April 12, 2019, 01:50:04 PM »

Does a Greek/Heretic defense seem like a good pairing for Daniel based offense and a no Dominant build? I'm thinking about doing this to be able to use Arrest in Gethsemane/Lacking Prophesy to disable opponent's ability to play dominants. I think I already have mostly NT Lost Souls in the deck list too and several of the NT Greeks are also Crimson so could use Nebby's Pride, B's Banquet, and of course Abom. Also would sub in Generous Widow as a potential 2 Dom discard with Lacking Prophesy active if opponent is trying to get under 5 cards.

Thoughts?

The Guardian · « **Reply #33 on:** April 12, 2019, 02:02:05 PM »

Spoiler (hover to show)

Sean · « **Reply #34 on:** April 12, 2019, 02:53:56 PM »

Whatever you put in the spoiler is not showing up

Gabe · « **Reply #35 on:** April 12, 2019, 03:57:39 PM »

Quote from: Sean on April 12, 2019, 02:53:56 PM

Whatever you put in the spoiler is not showing up

It's a Willy Wonka meme. Your "safe filter" is probably protecting you from it.

Sean · « **Reply #36 on:** April 12, 2019, 04:30:11 PM »

ah, I will have to thank my IT department here at work.

What is the point he was making?

The Guardian · « **Reply #37 on:** April 12, 2019, 04:42:31 PM »

It's Willy Wonka grinning with a "Go on. I like where you're going with this." caption.

Mostly I was intrigued by the thought of a dominant-less (or lite) deck that used cards like Arrest, Lacking Prophecy and maybe even Altar of Ahaz.

Sean · « **Reply #38 on:** April 12, 2019, 05:01:39 PM »

Yeah, my favorite part of that is it already works well with good gold and black for Abom+Kindness.

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Author Topic: Daniel Deck (Read 5779 times)

TheHobbit13