Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: browarod on December 10, 2014, 03:41:25 PM
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Had an idea to make a clay/green missionary/prophet deck to make use of Silas'/Barsabbas' synergy so I took apart my Gardenciples MP deck and built this offense instead. I'm sure there are things I could change/improve. The defense is exactly what I had paired with my Disciples in the previous incarnation of this deck so suggestions for something better would be most welcome. The artifacts are what's left after I took out the disciples-related ones (and Lampstand since I also took out The Tabernacle).
Cards in Deck: 56
Lost Souls: 8
Exchanger
NT only
1st round protect
Revealer
Female only
Resurrection (Psalm 30:3)
TEC Soul (Acts 16:22)
Hopper
Dominants: 7
Mayhem
SoG (I)
NJ
AotL
Grapes
Vain Philosophy
CM
Fortresses: 3
Herod's Temple
Obadiah's Caves
Missionary Ship
Artifacts: 5
Unholy Writ
Gifts of the Magi
Lampstand
Hidden Treasures
Four-Drachma Coin
Heroes: 10
Stephen
Peter (clay)
Barnabas
Luke
Aquila
Priscilla
Silas
Barsabbas
Anna
Simeon (Di)
Good Enhancements: 10
Deception Exposed
Peter's Sermon
Spiritual Warfare
Bravery of Priscilla
Baptism of Jesus
Two Bears
Provisions
Elymas Struck Blind
Preaching in the Synagogue
Generous Giving
DAEs: 1
Gamaliel's Speech
Evil Characters: 8
Sabbath Breaker
Messenger of Satan (TEC)
Emperor Tiberius
Emperor Vitellius
Foreign Wives
Uzzah
Proud Pharisee
Scribe
Evil Enhancements: 4
Gold Shield
Balaam's Disobedience
Scattered
Night Raid
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Herod's can hold lampstand. It deserves a spot. This deck looks slow to play T1MP...
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Why do you use GoyS? It's pretty weak.
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Herod's can hold lampstand. It deserves a spot. This deck looks slow to play T1MP...
Added Lampstand back in. If it's better as a 2P deck that's fine, I'd still like suggestions for improvement. I just was replacing my MP deck so I was hoping to get something that would work in MP as well, but if not that's fine.
Why do you use GoyS? It's pretty weak.
Because in multiplayer you have up to 2 extra people that could have Falling Away (which sees more play in MP than in 2P). And you can bet that if you get an early lead you'll end up getting every Falling Away at the table if you don't have GoYS up.
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Isn't lampstand better though?
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It's really not that simple, and doubling the number of cards in my deck that protect from FA isn't a bad thing. ;)
As it stands, though, I'm already considering taking GoYS out for Shipwreck so if you have a thought on that feel free to post it, otherwise you can debate the usefulness of GoYS elsewhere. :P
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I also agree that GoYS is superfluous though ;) What with Lampy and only having 7 doms, it is more cost inefficient in that slot.
However, I'm not sure if I'd go for Shipwreck. In multi, I'm not sure if that's going to make as much of a difference as, say, Mayhem. Mayhem can open up souls, get card advantage, and flush your opponent's searched dominants. Much better than either GoYS or Shipwreck for this deck, IMO.
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I just really dislike Mayhem. I get that it can be good, I simply don't like it.
I'll add it in for now.
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I love mayhem, but shipwreaked may prove to be better.... why so little EE?
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I love mayhem, but shipwreaked may prove to be better.... why so little EE?
Multiplayer is about rescuing souls more than it is about blocking. If you're the player with the most defense on the table, you won't get attacked, so you mostly use auto-blocks that can be kept in your hand.
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you can probabaly see that I barely ever play MP.
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4D Coin is a staple for me in any deck that uses Peter, especially a deck that needs to be fast. TGT should probably also be in there and you could add the green Joanna so that it's not just Peter. Generous Giving seems like a good option to me because ideally you'll have Gifts active close to the entire game so if everyone can benefit than you might as well benefit more. Plus it's an interrupt which is sort of a week spot for clay. Messenger of Satan would probably be better than Spirit of Temptation because drawing helps you while playing a card beneath really only hurts one person a little bit, plus, in multi cbp>cbi in my opinion. I think that either Peter's Sermon or Deception Exposed should come out for Preaching in the Synagogue. Burning of Magic Books could probably come out because if it does hurt somebody then it'll probably hurt them bad which isn't necessarily good in multi. Lastly, I see a disappointing lack of Provisions...
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I think Patience can come out. You're never really going to want to use it's ability for Soul gen since it happens at the end of your turn. While getting out Heroes is nice, it essentially just becomes a "Draw 1" ability at the end of your turn, which is not terribly useful. It also exposes your Hero for 3 opponents' turns. I would try to get down around 6 GE and add a few more Heroes if you want this to be effective in MP. My deck-building philosophy for MP has always been to make sure I always have a Hero since often times people want to give you a freebie to avoid giving it to the leader.
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So, to recap:
-Burning of Magic Books
-Patience
-Peter's Sermon or Deception Exposed
-Spirit of Temptation
+Joanna (green)
+Provisions
+4DC (I had taken it out before I considered adding the clay Peter into the deck so I forgot about putting it back in)
+TGT
+Generous Giving
+Messenger of Satan
+Preaching in the Synagogue
Bit of an imbalance on the removed cards versus the added cards. Even taking out both Peter's Sermon and Deception Exposed that leaves me with a sum of +2, which would put the deck at 53. Any further thoughts on what I could take out for the above adds?
Thanks for the suggestions so far! :D
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To make it even, (almost) I would take out messenger of Satan.
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From your original deck list, I would drop:
Missionary Ship
Bereans
Burning o' Magic Books
Deception Exposed
Patience
Prayer and Fasting
Gold Shield
Plague o' Frogs
Spirit o' Temptation
And add:
Preaching in the Synagogue
Nunc Dimittis
Joanna
TGT
FDC
Feast o' Trumpets
Sorrow o' Mary
Messenger o' Satan
That would make it 50 I think?
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I would keep Missionary Ship, just for site access.
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I would keep Missionary Ship, just for site access.
Sites are not generally an issue in multi.
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I would keep Missionary Ship, just for site access.
Sites are not generally an issue in multi.
Why not? More LS because of more players?
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I would keep Missionary Ship, just for site access.
Sites are not generally an issue in multi.
Why not? More LS because of more players?
Short answer: Yes.
But also, as mentioned before, you do NOT want to seem like the 'big bad defense' on the board. If you do, everyone goes to eat at other buffets, and you have nothing to rescue.
My brother won a Regional T1-MP pre-I/J with exactly 2 evil cards, and they were for soul gen (EC just generated a soul, nothing else, and Mayhem because it is amazing). He always had players to go against, because everyone tripped over themselves taking his. He also had more speed and offense, which is essential to getting your three quickest (3, because it is a race for SoG/NJ).
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My brother won a Regional T1-MP pre-I/J with exactly 2 evil cards, and they were for soul gen (EC just generated a soul, nothing else, and Mayhem because it is amazing). He always had players to go against, because everyone tripped over themselves taking his. He also had more speed and offense, which is essential to getting your three quickest (3, because it is a race for SoG/NJ).
Wow, 2 cards!? In my decks I use a formant of 8 EC, 8 EE, 8 GC, 10 GE, 8 LS (hopper), about 4 sites, 2-3 arts, 7 DOMS.
What do you recommend?
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Wow, 2 cards!? In my decks I use a formant of 8 EC, 8 EE, 8 GC, 10 GE, 8 LS (hopper), about 4 sites, 2-3 arts, 7 DOMS.
What do you recommend?
Cut out about half those EC, half those EE, add in a lot more GC, remove the sites (unless you need the ability). Generally, the meta for winning T1MP decks (especially with 4 players) involves using much less defense and fast offenses that always have an available rescue.
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Wow, 2 cards!? In my decks I use a formant of 8 EC, 8 EE, 8 GC, 10 GE, 8 LS (hopper), about 4 sites, 2-3 arts, 7 DOMS.
What do you recommend?
Just to clarify, Redoubter is making suggestions specifically for a Multi-player deck. The format you mention is a very solid format for a Two-player deck.
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That would leave me with only 4 EC in T1 2p!
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Wow, 2 cards!? In my decks I use a formant of 8 EC, 8 EE, 8 GC, 10 GE, 8 LS (hopper), about 4 sites, 2-3 arts, 7 DOMS.
What do you recommend?
Just to clarify, Redoubter is making suggestions specifically for a Multi-player deck. The format you mention is a very solid format for a Two-player deck.
Yeah, as mentioned in all my posts, this is ALL about MP only (since this deck was listed as an MP deck). In 2P there is much more variety and more combinations of good-evil that work well.
Definitely don't apply what I'm saying about MP logic to 2P ;)
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Ok, the starter deck use 7 GC and 7 EC, so is it a good idea to use 8 GC and 8 EC?
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Would this offense theme be better as a 2P deck? I'm looking at it and it just isn't as fast as the Disciples decks I've used in that format.
If I was going to do this, what different changes/updates would people suggest?
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Would this offense theme be better as a 2P deck? I'm looking at it and it just isn't as fast as the Disciples decks I've used in that format.
If I was going to do this, what different changes/updates would people suggest?
Changes to make it a 2p deck or changes to make it a MP Disciples deck? If 2p just fit more defense, if MP just start over if you want Disciples lol.
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Change it to a 2P deck, lol. I'll probably rebuild my disciples deck to still have a MP deck.
Changed the thread title to reflect this.
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In this deck, Messenger of Satan (TEC) is better than Spirit of Temptation.
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In this deck, Messenger of Satan (TEC) is better than Spirit of Temptation.
Thanks! I've changed that.
Of the suggestions people provided earlier, are they still valid for a 2P deck variant or would people suggest different changes?
I'm wondering if it's worth going to 56 to add some more defense. I had thought about doing a Roman/Site defense but didn't have the room for it in the MP variant. Any thoughts on that? Roman Jailer and the other Phase 2 gray cards, plus the new sites, etc.
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Being that this isn't a super fast deck, I would probably add some defense. If all of your EE end up in the bottom half of your deck, you'll be lucky to make one block all game.
I think I would start by adding Night Raid, Sorrow of Mary and Uzzah.
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Added those 3 cards.
Any other suggestions to get this 2P worthy? I've ignored the suggestions from when I still wanted to make this an MP deck so if any of those are still valid for 2P please let me know and I'll make those changes, too.
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For the last two, I'd go with Provisions and Proud Pharisee--even without another Pharisee to draw, the play next ability is strong enough IMO.
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For the last two, I'd go with Provisions and Proud Pharisee--even without another Pharisee to draw, the play next ability is strong enough IMO.
Ooh, I forgot about Provisions, definitely adding that. Proud Pharisee would be a good fit, I think, yeah. Thanks!
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Not sure why Barnabus is not in this deck. He is also a clay/green prophet. You could probably take out patience or something else for him, since he also searches for a lost soul. At this point you have enought green prophets to put in a Hidden Treasures. Also you already have gifts I your deck, so why not add Generous Giving? It would be a draw six for you. I am supposed that neither of the two new interrupt the battle/battle winner made it into your deck. You most definitely want to ad at least one of them
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Not sure why Barnabus is not in this deck. He is also a clay/green prophet. You could probably take out patience or something else for him, since he also searches for a lost soul. At this point you have enought green prophets to put in a Hidden Treasures. Also you already have gifts I your deck, so why not add Generous Giving? It would be a draw six for you. I am supposed that neither of the two new interrupt the battle/battle winner made it into your deck. You most definitely want to ad at least one of them
I can't think of the names of those ItB/BW enhancements you mentioned offhand, any chance you could make an "Add: Remove:" list for your suggestions? Those are super helpful for me. :)
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Add:
Elymas Struck Blind
Preaching in the Synagogue
Hidden treasures
Barnabus
Generous Giving
Nunc Dinitis
Subtract:
Captured Ark
Bereans or Luke or Widows of Joppa
Burning of the Magic Books
Plague of Frogs
Patience
Not sure what else to take out.
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Add:
Barnabus
Nunc Dinitis
Subtract:
Bereans or Luke or Widows of Joppa
Not sure what else to take out.
I've made all your changes except the above 2. I'm gonna need to get the deck in front of me (I'm at work atm) before I can figure out what to take out for the remaining 2 suggestions. Thanks for the tips!
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I've taken a look through the deck again and I've replaced Bereans with Barnabas. I'm still not sure what to take out to put in Nunc Dimittis. I've also thought about trying to fit in Four-Drachma Coin to up the speed of the deck, but again not sure what to take out.
Any thoughts?
EDIT: Decided to take out Widows of Joppa to put in 4DC. Combos with Peter for draw, otherwise it's another target for Uzzah.
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Have you played any games to say if you like it better at 56 rather than 50? I was thinking of bumping my deck up to 56 rather than 50.
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Have you played any games to say if you like it better at 56 rather than 50? I was thinking of bumping my deck up to 56 rather than 50.
I haven't, no. Don't really have any people nearby to play with, haha.
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Have you played any games to say if you like it better at 56 rather than 50? I was thinking of bumping my deck up to 56 rather than 50.
I haven't, no. Don't really have any people nearby to play with, haha.
Since you helped me test my T2 deck, I owe you a T1 game or two to help you test this deck. 8)
Incidentally, I won T2 2P and the Hoppers proved to be the difference in the second game where I barely managed a 6-5 timeout win.
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Apologies for the necropost but I'm looking again at this deck (after having looked through a Teal/Green deck I apparently still have built) and wondering if Spiritual Warfare would be a good add for this? Pre-block ignore is still pretty powerful these days, but I don't know what card I would take out for it.
Anybody have any thoughts?
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If you could show your deck as it is now that would be helpful. I tried going through the old posts, but there is too much to keep track of. If you could post your deck as it stands I'd be happy to give my two cents. However, off hand I would say spiritual warfare is a good card to have.
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There is nothing wrong with it. You already have Hidden Treasures. It is a good battle winner, as long as they are not use in demons.
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If you could show your deck as it is now that would be helpful. I tried going through the old posts, but there is too much to keep track of. If you could post your deck as it stands I'd be happy to give my two cents. However, off hand I would say spiritual warfare is a good card to have.
The deck list in the very first post of this thread is accurate to the current configuration of the deck. I always update that one when I make changes.
There is nothing wrong with it. You already have Hidden Treasures. It is a good battle winner, as long as they are not use in demons.
Any thoughts on what I could take out to put SW in?
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Any thoughts on what I could take out to put SW in?
I'd drop Prayer and Fasting.
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Any thoughts on what I could take out to put SW in?
I'd drop Prayer and Fasting.
I like that idea, thanks! :D
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Sorry, Browarod, I didn't know that it was updated. I would've suggested what Gabe said, but he beat me to it. However if you'd still like suggestions I might reccomend something. To make your defense stronger, you might want to take out sorrow of Mary since it won't directly lead to a block.
Take out
Sorrow of Mary
Substitute one of the following
Scribe, since your deck is offensive being able to underdeck two bears will be nice, especially if you topdeck it with Silas. Plus it can band to Proud Pharisee.
Tenants kill the son, with proud Pharisee it is an unstoppable combo, unless character negation is present.
Expelling the Jews, it will work well with your emperors against humans.
Three nails, unless negated and you have spiritual warfare, you have a potential uncontested block.
I may have a few more ideas, but these are by far the best. Obviously it is up to you whether these are potentially better than sorrow of Mary, but I think they are worth consideration.
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No worries!
It's an interesting idea, I like all of those cards except Three Nails (I'll primarily be playing SW with Hidden Treasures up for pre-block ignore so I couldn't also have Nails up). Scribe is useful for recurring certainly, Tenants for draw is nice, and Expelling for a mass withdraw.
I'll have to think it over, thanks for the suggestion!
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I would give a second thumbs up to Scribe. If you can afford to block with him one turn, then next turn you can use Messenger of Satan to either draw a defensive battle winner and band to Proud Pharisee to play it, or get back an offensive battle winner for next turn. It's definitely better in Type-2 where you can cycle more than one copy of the same enhancement, but with the variety of defensive battle winners you have you should be able to do Messenger banded to Scribe banded to Proud Pharisee bouncing between two O.T. evil enhancements. It might be a bit involved and it might be a little hard to set up, but it also could be a great end game strategy to deplete your opponent of offensive options.
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Alright, I'll try subbing Sorrow of Mary out for Scribe.
Thanks for the thoughts!