Check out our Event Calendar! View birthdays, holidays and upcoming tournaments!
I agree with your analysis, it will be interesting to see if any 57 card decks do well. I mean I am sure they could find success at local/district/states, but what about the grind of a Regionals/Nats.
I am sure they could find success at local/district/states, but what about the grind of a Regionals/Nats.
I've never even heard of the last one. A 150 card deck using Gates OR Samaria sites!? What? Please elaborate if you don't mind!
Mark, why do you need a eighth dom?
What is your reasoning behind Mayhem? I find it performs suboptimally in a balanced deck due to it being more suspect to hand clog, thus larger hands...Mayhem has always seemed counterproductive. I would take Falling Away or Burial first over Mayhem, or both if doing 8 Doms.
In my mind there are only 4 sizes of decks that can win at the top levels:1 - Offense-heavy decks seem to work best at 50-52 cards.2 - Balanced decks seem to work best at 57 cards (to get the 8th dom).3 - Defense-heavy decks seem to work best at 63 cards (enough room for defense, but more consistent draws than a 70-card deck).4 - Crazy decks (based on triple Gates of Hell or 20 Samaria sites) seem to work best at 154.Unfortunately I find that time limits ruin the chances of either 3 or 4 ever winning Nats, so if you want to really win at the top you have to go with either 1 or 2. However if you just want to have fun playing and still do well, then all 4 of the above are viable.
The biggest draw to balanced decks is the chance to draw souls slower than a 50ish carder and having defense more readily available to defend souls when they do pop up. For this reason, they perform best at 56...an extra soul is certainly not worth the extra dom slot. The best defense has always been to simply not draw souls.
Yea, I have a hard time adding that extra soul as well! The 50 card decks draw lost souls so quickly. A 56 card deck draws a soul 1 in every 8 cards. A 57 card deck gives a 7.125 chance of drawing a lost soul. the 57 card deck has a better chance of drawing a lost soul than does the 50 card deck 7.1 is much better than practically 43...no thanks!
I agree with you that Burial is often a really good dominant still, but I would be very hesitant to put Falling Away in a balanced deck. There is just too high a possibility that my opponent's deck will be faster than mine. And if they get their GoYS or Lampstand out before I draw my FA (which they usually will) then I have wasted my dom-slot. I'd much rather have Mayhem which works anytime I want it to.
Lampstand will assuredly almost always be in any Disciples deck...balanced decks and decks with higher defense ratios are more prone to bad draws than aggro decks it needs to mitigate that possible damage with Falling Away, even if statistically they would draw it after some decks drop a Lampstand.
Quote from: Master KChief on October 07, 2013, 02:25:37 PMLampstand will assuredly almost always be in any Disciples deck...balanced decks and decks with higher defense ratios are more prone to bad draws than aggro decks it needs to mitigate that possible damage with Falling Away, even if statistically they would draw it after some decks drop a Lampstand.Here's another way of looking at it. Falling Away is a responsive card. It takes away a LS after your opponent has already defeated your defense and rescued one. So in the end you force your opponent to rescue another LS, but whatever you used to defend is still gone.
And yet you list CM and Burial both above FA which more or less do the same exact thing, stop a rescue after its succeeded already
Furthermore the gains from Mayhem outside of plus and negs on drawing are purely speculative
I'm fairly certain a Falling Away will go off many more times than people tend to give it credit for.
I have to agree that FA is a better choice than mayhem, mayhem reduces your hand by 2, gives your opponent the EXACT same chance as you as getting a better hand, and relies on the idea that you have a poor hand.
Mayhem does give you the chance to redraw another garbage hand, but if your deck is built right, garbage hands shouldn't happen often. That said, they WILL happen, and Mayhem also gives you a chance to come back from that.
Buying yourself one turn isn't good enough in a lot of situations.
Mayhem is even better now with Vain Philosophy out, since it's a way to shuffle your deck without searching.
Also, I don't agree that Falling Away is a guaranteed stop for a turn. At least half the decks in TC used Lampstand, probably more like 3/4.
A staple in Agrro? I don't know what I am missing, but honestly don't understand why it would be? I am not being sarcastic at all, I legitimately want to know what I am missing! Thanks!
I'm not even entirely certain why people are trying to compare the two, its like comparing apples to oranges. Mayhem is in a league of its own, while Falling Away exists on the CM and Burial tier. If you have the room, why not just simply use both? I certainly do.
Quote from: Westy on October 07, 2013, 09:43:24 PMMayhem does give you the chance to redraw another garbage hand, but if your deck is built right, garbage hands shouldn't happen often. That said, they WILL happen, and Mayhem also gives you a chance to come back from that. Emphasis mine. Consistency is always the best formula when building a deck, and Mayhem makes that chance even slimmer for balanced and beyond decks. Aggro: staple. Balanced/defense heavy: usually cut if tight on room.QuoteBuying yourself one turn isn't good enough in a lot of situations.Completely disagree with this, I can't count how many times I've heard someone say they would have won if they had one turn more, ROOT is proof positive of this. Many games are won and lost because of a single turn.QuoteMayhem is even better now with Vain Philosophy out, since it's a way to shuffle your deck without searching.A valid point. But I absolutely hate drawing Mayhem with Vain Philosophy together.QuoteAlso, I don't agree that Falling Away is a guaranteed stop for a turn. At least half the decks in TC used Lampstand, probably more like 3/4.My operative words were almost always. From what I've seen from extensive play in ROOT, hardly any decks outside the occasional DI plays Lampstand. I have surprisingly yet to see my Falling Away a dead draw since I've stuck it back in my decks. It also punishes people that read a VP/Vit/Sorrow and play SoG/Nj early. If we're also attributing a 50% rate towards any deck using Lampstand, I'm perfectly content with my FA working in higher than half my games. The same ordeal existed back in the day of FA vs GOYS, and yet that never caused anyone to bat an eye towards adding either one.