Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 1 Deck Advice => Topic started by: JDS on June 10, 2011, 05:01:34 PM
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Disciples/Pharisees: 50 Cards
Lost Soul (Hopper)
Lost Soul (Negater)
Lost Soul (Revealer)
Lost Soul (Wanderer)
Lost Soul (1 Round Protect)
Lost Soul (N.T. Only)
Lost Soul (Shuffler)
Lost Souls (Unlimited)
The Ends of the Earth
Nazareth
Chariot of Fire
Four-Drachma Coin
Lampstand of the Sanctuary
Unholy Writ
Angel of the Lord
New Jerusalem
Son of God
Fishing Boat
Herod's Temple
Simon the Zealot (D)
Bartholomew (D)
Philip (D)
Thaddeus (D)
John (10A)
James, son of Zebedee
Matthew (D)
Thomas (D)
James, son of Alphaeus (D)
Peter
Andrew
The New Covenant
Faith as a Mustard Seed (D)
Passover Hym
Pentecost
Reach of Desperation
My Lord and My God
A New Commandment
Authority of Christ (Promo)
Christian Martyr
High Priest’s Palace
Scribe
The Entrapping Pharisee
Hard-Hearted Religious Leader
Proud Pharisee
Pharisees
Sabbath Breaker
Peter's Curse
Rain Becomes Dust
Pretension
Balaam’s Disobedience
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I would add the hopper. It won't slow your deck down any, and it generates souls.
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I would add the hopper. It won't slow your deck down any, and it generates souls.
He's using the negate soul which would defeat the purpose.
I would take out one of the pharisees for the 2/2 unique guy and add bearing bad news over saul
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it actually doesnt defeat the purpose, its still a + 1 draw at the very worse. he definately needs hopper.
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No Blue Tassels=no winning against Herods.
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i went up against a herod super turtle at nc regionals with no blue tassels tech and i did perfectly fine. herods for one are usually too slow to set up against disciples, and phil/bart (bread n butta) and james the lesser say no to capture. in fact, my very last rescue was with a james the lesser that dropped a super-passover hymn with a crown of thorns on board. devestating.
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Why Saul?
Just a Hireling (black/gray)
Tenants Kill the Son (Gray/Black)
Self-Righteous Prayer
these are good also
Needs a blue guy/girl :) and the most broken card in standard right now.
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Mayhem has proven to be most useful.
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Faith as a Mustard Seed has never seemed very good in my expirience.
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im a huge fan of faith as a mustard seed primarily due to its sheer versatility, but yeah, i have yet to use it as a battle winner. at the very least though its a negate evil enhancement (which is pretty good for disciples) and herods temple food.
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Mayhem.
You seem to have a LOT of evil characters for not many evil enhancements.
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Mayhem FTW!
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i went up against a herod super turtle at nc regionals with no blue tassels tech and i did perfectly fine. herods for one are usually too slow to set up against disciples, and phil/bart (bread n butta) and james the lesser say no to capture. in fact, my very last rescue was with a james the lesser that dropped a super-passover hymn with a crown of thorns on board. devestating.
See, that's the problem. Superturtles are not Herods. Herods with a fast offense (such as white, the normal pairing) don't take long to get set up at all.
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i agree with Pol
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the deck i played against wasnt big at all, no bigger than a 56. it was super turtle because 90% of the deck was dedicated to defense, with nothing outside of jake/cap/angel at shur/dust and ashes/job and possibly job's faith and abes descendent. if a defense-heavy deck within those size limits fails to hold off disciples, then the pairing will be even worse for a balanced deck that doesnt have as many defensive options as the super turtle.
the original point anyways was the lack of blue tassels, which the deck is perfectly fine without; disciples has many options to get around capture within its vast toolbox.
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No, it doesn't. Superturtle is bad regardless of size. I very clearly specified that the best Herods are paired with a fast offense for best results, which is not the case you are describing.
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I'll have to agree with Pol on this one point, Herods are best paired with a faster offense. The only time I've even remotely had problems when facing a Herods defense with a Disciples offense is when my opponents offense could keep up and take advantage of the nice autoblocks that a Herods defense can make.
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No, it doesn't. Superturtle is bad regardless of size. I very clearly specified that the best Herods are paired with a fast offense for best results, which is not the case you are describing.
I don't see why they would be a more effective defense against di other than the fact that the offense would take more pressure off the defense. Is that what you mean? Because it seems to me the bigger the defense (and especially with herods) the more di will have trouble. You just have a lot more blocking options because 90 % of your deck is defense.
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I played with this (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/complete-decks/watchful-servant-4th-place-northeast-regionals/) super turtle defense at NE regionals + some other games, and my strategy against disciples was basically to capture with Herod's Dungeon, use super long bands to take advantage of Disciples typically only having 3-4 battle winners, and using timing FBTN battles to prevent Bart for totally shutting down Herod's Dungeon.
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How many disciples decks did you end up playing?
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How many disciples decks did you end up playing?
At regionals, 2. I also playtested the defense against 2 or 3. The best one did was timeout win 2-1.
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I have never tried Saul in my Pharisee defense. Is there any value in converting him or is he there simply as a Grey Pharisee?
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No, it doesn't. Superturtle is bad regardless of size. I very clearly specified that the best Herods are paired with a fast offense for best results, which is not the case you are describing.
I don't see why they would be a more effective defense against di other than the fact that the offense would take more pressure off the defense. Is that what you mean? Because it seems to me the bigger the defense (and especially with herods) the more di will have trouble. You just have a lot more blocking options because 90 % of your deck is defense.
and the fact a bigger herod defense has far better synergy with herods temple than a smaller d. you can super turtle and discard defensively for days to herods temple and not be phased by it in the slightest.
I have never tried Saul in my Pharisee defense. Is there any value in converting him or is he there simply as a Grey Pharisee?
i also do not understand why saul is in there. the only reason i can think to have him in there is for the phar/proud phar/saul/romans destroy jerusalem combo, but for one rdj is not in the deck, and two it would cripple his offense substantially.
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Honestly, the best part of a bigger defense against disciples is the combination of an on brigade Unknown Nation, a more effective Herod's Temple, and more effective Disciple Sites + Herod's Treachery.
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i dont know a disciples deck that doesnt use passover hymn though, so there goes treachery (which i actually did use to discard treachery in the prep phase against the super turtle at nc)... :P
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Maybe he thinks Paul is considered a disciple?
My disciple's deck doesn't use Passover Hymn...
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i dont know a disciples deck that doesnt use passover hymn though, so there goes treachery (which i actually did use to discard treachery in the prep phase against the super turtle at nc)... :P
Not many I have seen actually use it (not sure why, it's pretty nice). Also, DD is pretty nice.
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i know all the top disciples decks at nc regionals were packing it. i think its one of the tastiest interrupts in the game...so much powerful versatility packed into one single card and solves all of the problems that can possibly stop thad. its also recurrable by matthew (which i did 3 times at regionals against the super turtle). definately a staple in my book.
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i know all the top disciples decks at nc regionals were packing it. i think its one of the tastiest interrupts in the game...so much powerful versatility packed into one single card and solves all of the problems that can possibly stop thad. its also recurrable by matthew (which i did 3 times at regionals against the super turtle). definately a staple in my book.
+1 All the kewl kids are using it.
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I use it too. I was just commenting that I didn't see it around much for whatever reason.
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I have never tried Saul in my Pharisee defense. Is there any value in converting him or is he there simply as a Grey Pharisee?
I would guess he put it in there because phars usually have a problem with TSA and BTN in general.
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Besieged helps with that one.
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Besieged takes up an artifact slot and requires drawing a number of pharisees to be effective. For a deck like this, imo, Saul is the better choice.
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If you have a hard time getting 3 pharisees in battle then you are not playing a pharisee deck...IMO. Beseiged has worked beautifully in the decks I have included it in.
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If you have a hard time getting 3 pharisees in battle then you are not playing a pharisee deck...IMO. Beseiged has worked beautifully in the decks I have included it in.
The problem with that is that most decks that play phars are defense lite speed, so there's only a few characters to play with.
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on second thought, i think i would still put rdj in this deck...just load up the boat then drop it. also, i just now noticed...why is an ends of the earth in this deck?
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So you can still speed when facing a lockout deck. I don't think it's that crucial.
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Replacing the ends of the earth with ceasarea philippi seems effective.
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Replacing the ends of the earth with ceasarea philippi seems effective.
Yeah straight up but for a small deck like this double protection with HPP and CP might be too redundant. There are also a lot of dominant cards that might be nice to add instead such as; Burial, FA, Mayhem, Don, Goys, Grapes, or harvest time.
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triple protection: dont forget herods temple. the deck definately needs grapes too...any dom that gets under lampy and can be used defensively is a staple.
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This thread needs to get to atleast 8 pages before JDS reads it.
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Replacing the ends of the earth with ceasarea philippi seems effective.
Yeah straight up but for a small deck like this double protection with HPP and CP might be too redundant. There are also a lot of dominant cards that might be nice to add instead such as; Burial, FA, Mayhem, Don, Goys, Grapes, or harvest time.
I didn't even notice how low that was on dominants. I was just suggesting a (imo) better site option.
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I took out Saul for Hopper per advice. Even if I get stuck with it in my LoB, it does still have the advantage of making the deck one card thinner (as was stated).
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This thread needs to get to atleast 8 pages before JDS reads it.
I took out Saul for Hopper per advice. Even if I get stuck with it in my LoB, it does still have the advantage of making the deck one card thinner (as was stated).
Whoops.
Any thoughts on additional doms, JDS?
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Harvest Time would stop Confusion of Mind and help generate souls.
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his naz stops harvest time.
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true. my bad.
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It is still a good discard for Confusion of Mind...
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captured ark over ht, if he keeps naz...
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True and "naz" is pretty important against several types of decks.