Author Topic: [MAIN] The Garden Tomb Variants (Read 4548 times)

Alex_Olijar · « **on:** May 16, 2013, 02:05:53 PM »

I'm going to try something new for the deck forums that I saw on a couple different pokemon forums that might help reduce some clutter and allow us to really see the evolution of a deck over time.

This thread is designed to be the central hub for discussion about decks based on The Garden Tomb and any vairants within. It will be a test topic an if this works well I will make some more for various other big archetypes. In this thread, post lists you want help on, discuss tech cards, matchups against other decks, etc. It's a place for any and all Garden Tomb related posting!

To start off, I think The Garden Tomb is moving out of white as a main brigade. It seems like Disciples do everything the Garden Tomb does but better. I'd almost argue that you should avoid playing the white characters and opt for a purple/teal build to get Kidron Valley.

What thoughts do you have on the Garden Tomb in the new set?

Red · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:07:46 PM »

Susanna is still an amazing character. I don't personally advocate moving out of white.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:08:54 PM »

Quote from: Red on May 16, 2013, 02:07:46 PM

Susanna is still an amazing character. I don't personally advocate moving out of white.

Susanna is really good, but she's also not a Garden Tomb hero, so every time you attack with her, you are going to be attacking with some kind of negateable battle winner.

Red · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:13:51 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 16, 2013, 02:08:54 PM

Quote from: Red on May 16, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
Susanna is still an amazing character. I don't personally advocate moving out of white.

Susanna is really good, but she's also not a Garden Tomb hero, so every time you attack with her, you are going to be attacking with some kind of negateable battle winner.

You could run Fiohp.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:23:11 PM »

First off, great idea.

Here's my most recent (and very unpolished) TGT offense:
Cards in deck: 42
Lost Souls: 7
   Lost Soul (female only)
   Lost Soul (N.T. only)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (CBP)
   Lost Soul (Site Guard)
   Lost Soul (Wanderer)
   Lost Souls (2-line)

Lamb Dominants: 5
   Angel of the Lord
   Grapes of Wrath
   Guardian Of Your Souls
   New Jerusalem
   Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 2
   Mayhem
   Vain Philosophy

Fortresses: 2
   Herod's Temple
   The Garden Tomb

Multi-Color Sites: 1
   Kidron Valley (Teal)

Green Sites: 1
   Nazareth

Artifacts: 6
   Four-Drachma Coin
   Golden Cherubim
   Holy Grail
   Lampstand of the Sanctuary
   Samaritan Water Jar
   Urim and Thummim

White Covenant Cards: 1
   Covenant With Death (Brown/Pale Green)

Multi-Color Heroes: 3
   Joshua the High Priest (Teal)
   Phinehas, son of Eleazar (Teal)
   Priests of Christ (Teal)

Purple Heroes: 5
   Bartholomew (Nathanael)
   John
   Matthew (Levi)
   Peter
   Philip

Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 4
   First Fruits
   Pentecost
   Temple Dedication (Purple/Teal/White)
   Zeal for the Lord (Teal)

Purple Hero Enhancements: 5
   Authority of Christ
   Fishers of Men
   Miraculous Catch
   My Lord and My God
   Reach of Desperation

I would like to add another Disciple, but I'm not sure what to drop. I generally use 8 defense as a base, but that's not really relevant to this offense so I didn't bother posting it.

browarod · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:37:43 PM »

I still plan to keep my T1 MP deck Gardenciples with its 4 (or 5?) white heroes. I'll be swapping red Peter for purple Peter, and maybe some of the new enhancements, but the white half will remain (except maybe Lydia, as much as I love my niece).

JSB23 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:56:06 PM »

Offense I've been experimenting with:

Doms - 4:
AotL
HT
SoG (new)
NJ

Arts - 2:
Grail
aNC

White Heroes - 5:
Susanna
Mary, MoJ
Mary Mag
Salome
Johanna

Purple Heroes - 5:
Peter (new)
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Matthew

Multi GE - 1:
Lay Down Your Life

Purple GE - 3:
AoCP
Reach
MLMG

White GE - 3:
Magnificat (probably going to switch out)
He is Risen
Consider the Lilies

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2013, 02:58:05 PM »

^Needs some serious Fishers of Men

Master KChief · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2013, 04:22:50 PM »

Been playing TGT Disciples over white for quite some time now. Surprised haven't seen similar builds a lot sooner.

JSB23 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2013, 04:35:35 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 16, 2013, 02:58:05 PM

^Needs some serious Fishers of Men

Yep, that's what Magnificat would be switched out for.

Master Q · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2013, 01:00:40 AM »

Quote from: JSB23 on May 16, 2013, 02:56:06 PM

Offense I've been experimenting with:

Doms - 4:
AotL
HT
SoG (new)
NJ

Arts - 2:
Grail
aNC

White Heroes - 5:
Susanna
Mary, MoJ
Mary Mag
Salome
Johanna

Purple Heroes - 5:
Peter (new)
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Matthew

Multi GE - 1:
Lay Down Your Life

Purple GE - 3:
AoCP
Reach
MLMG

White GE - 3:
Magnificat (probably going to switch out)
He is Risen
Consider the Lilies

A TGT offense without TGT? This is madness!

I'd rather go full Disciples for max Thad power.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2013, 04:25:15 AM »

IMO full disciples doesn't work with TGT. I haven't fully tested it, but I much prefer Purple/White, Purple/Gold, Purple/Teal, or some mix of the three.

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2013, 04:28:51 AM »

What do you mean by 'full' disciples?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2013, 10:32:14 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on May 17, 2013, 04:28:51 AM

What do you mean by 'full' disciples?

I assume he means a Thad strategy, who needs at least 8-9 other Disicples (and thus little room for anyone else) to be truly effective against a full 15-20 card defense. As opposed to a 5-6 Disciple contingent mixed with the TGT ladies, Samaritans, or Priests.

Chris · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM »

Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2013, 11:16:41 AM »

I almost want to splash Teal in anything just to get access to Kidron.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2013, 01:03:39 PM »

Quote from: Chris on May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM

Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Actually, Temple Dedication can be played without priests...it's purple adn the searching part is what's good.

Kidron Valley is insanely good. I've yet to build a deck without it. Disciples just has too many territory class enhancements and will be shut down by CWD. Kidron stops that.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2013, 01:07:31 PM »

Quote from: Chris on May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM

Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Kidron Valley kills:

Charms
Writ
Cov with Death
Cap Ark
etc

Teal also gives you access to first fruits and retains some brigade help with temple dedication and pentecost.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2013, 02:06:57 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 01:07:31 PM

Quote from: Chris on May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Kidron Valley kills:

Charms
Writ
Cov with Death
Cap Ark
etc

Teal also gives you access to first fruits and retains some brigade help with temple dedication and pentecost.

Don't forget the card that ignores ~half of the Disciples...

I look forward to games where HHI keeps popping in and out of a discard pile as Foreign Wives and Kidron Valley go back and forth.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2013, 02:09:22 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 17, 2013, 02:06:57 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Kidron Valley kills:

Charms
Writ
Cov with Death
Cap Ark
etc

Teal also gives you access to first fruits and retains some brigade help with temple dedication and pentecost.

Don't forget the card that ignores ~half of the Disciples...

I look forward to games where HHI keeps popping in and out of a discard pile as Foreign Wives and Kidron Valley go back and forth.

Yeah, hits Household Idols too, but that doesn't stop any of the good disciples.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2013, 03:41:46 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 02:09:22 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 17, 2013, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Kidron Valley kills:

Charms
Writ
Cov with Death
Cap Ark
etc

Teal also gives you access to first fruits and retains some brigade help with temple dedication and pentecost.

Don't forget the card that ignores ~half of the Disciples...

I look forward to games where HHI keeps popping in and out of a discard pile as Foreign Wives and Kidron Valley go back and forth.

Yeah, hits Household Idols too, but that doesn't stop any of the good disciples.

It stops 2 of the best 4, as well as the only two that get initiative (well maybe now John can get initiative too, but still).

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2013, 04:03:34 PM »

So this turned from a Tomb thread to Disciples?

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 17, 2013, 05:01:52 PM »

Westy your build need holy unto the Lord.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2013, 07:34:13 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on May 17, 2013, 04:03:34 PM

So this turned from a Tomb thread to Disciples?

IMO the best "Disciples" deck is one centered around TGT. The best "TGT" deck is centered around Disciples. A full blown Disciples offense probably doesn't deserve to be here, but the printing of a purple Peter has kind of meshed the two offenses into one.

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 17, 2013, 03:41:46 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: Professoralstad on May 17, 2013, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 17, 2013, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 17, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
Can someone explain the rationale behind priest splashing in Disciples decks? I get that it would let you use U&T and Temple Dedication, but that seems like a lot of cards for little payoff.

Kidron Valley kills:

Charms
Writ
Cov with Death
Cap Ark
etc

Teal also gives you access to first fruits and retains some brigade help with temple dedication and pentecost.

Don't forget the card that ignores ~half of the Disciples...

I look forward to games where HHI keeps popping in and out of a discard pile as Foreign Wives and Kidron Valley go back and forth.

Yeah, hits Household Idols too, but that doesn't stop any of the good disciples.

It stops 2 of the best 4, as well as the only two that get initiative (well maybe now John can get initiative too, but still).

What? The best two are John and Peter, as this is TGT we're talking about. Philip and Matthew are probably next in line, so yes, it stops Philip. 1/4 isn't that good at all.

EDIT: I forgot about the best disciple in the game: Andrew. Yeah, you're right.

Quote from: TheHobbit on May 17, 2013, 05:01:52 PM

Westy your build need holy unto the Lord.

Maybe. The teal isn't really supposed to attack, so I've considered dropping Zeal anyway, but I'll test it with that instead.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2013, 09:54:05 PM »

Matthew doesn't band it's Thomas that bands to Matthew.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2013, 05:30:09 AM »

I think we've known for awhile that TGT is good with pretty much anything and it continues to be true. I personally think it NEEDS to be with Teal so you can get Kidron Valley to get rid of Charms and Writ, one of the few out of battle counters to this thing (not to mention Peter's Curse if that's a thing), and since Teal can use the draw set asides you want to use anyway (as well as Temple Dedication because who doesn't want another way to draw Golden Cherubim). The question then becomes would I rather play with White Females or Purple Disciples, since you really don't have space for both while having anything resembling a defense, and I just don't see how White can even compete with Purple.

Smokey · « **Reply #26 on:** May 19, 2013, 08:24:11 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 19, 2013, 05:30:09 AM

I just don't see how White can even compete with Purple.

It's easier to remove 2 heroes from the game than it is to remove 4.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #27 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:05:04 AM »

There's so many ways to get heroes back that's almost a non issue. Also Kidron valley.

Smokey · « **Reply #28 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:26:29 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on May 19, 2013, 09:05:04 AM

There's so many ways to get heroes back that's almost a non issue. Also Kidron valley.

And now you understand why Ashtaroth Worship is amazing

.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #29 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:44:20 PM »

The four best Disciples are James SoA, Thaddeus, Philip and Simon the Zealot.

This assumes the fact that T2 > T1 (which is obvious).

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #30 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:42:46 PM »

This is in Type 1 deck advice so....

Gabe · « **Reply #31 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:27:56 PM »

Teal Tomb is the best TGT, hands down.

Iamalittleking · « **Reply #32 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:52:35 PM »

I run garden dispels mainly its what i have. Though the DEF is anything but MAIN

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Author Topic: [MAIN] The Garden Tomb Variants (Read 4548 times)

Warrior_Monk

browarod

Warrior_Monk

Chris

Warrior_Monk

TheHobbit13

Warrior_Monk

TheHobbit13