Author Topic: White ignore enhancements  (Read 95826 times)

Offline seeker

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White ignore enhancements
« on: October 20, 2008, 03:56:49 PM »
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I am making a white ignore music deck using the i am's and i dont hink that there is a white or multicolored ignore card. :dunno:

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Offline lightningninja

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 03:58:03 PM »
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I am making a white ignore music deck using the i am's and i dont hink that there is a white or multicolored ignore card. :dunno:

Connor the Seeker
if there's "no need for spices," why should they need ignore?
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Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 04:15:09 PM »
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Quote from: seeker
i dont hink that there is a white or multicolored ignore card.



Sean
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 05:27:28 PM by Sean »
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Offline seeker

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 04:59:14 PM »
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i agree with sean what the heck are you talking about brandon
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Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 05:27:54 PM »
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Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I edited my post to clarify. 

Sean
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Offline seeker

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 06:38:58 PM »
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sry i ment to say crimson ignore card for white.
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 07:02:12 PM »
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I'll say again, if they have "no need for spices," then why do they need to ignore crimson?

If someone doesn't understand this within 10 minutes, it will explode! ;)
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 07:43:32 PM »
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I unde --
           BOOM!!!
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Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 08:11:53 PM »
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No Need for Spices, Faith Shared, and Compassion of Jeremiah all ignore crimson.

Sean
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Offline seeker

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 01:08:58 AM »
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okay what about something for white that ignores pale green.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 03:42:13 AM »
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okay what about something for white that ignores pale green.
No need for spices
Wall of fire
And...Submissiveness of mary I think. White has an ignore for EVERYTHING cept orange.

Oops! edit: Confused ruth's card with mary's.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 01:54:56 PM by TheKarazyvicePresidentRR »
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The Schaef

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 07:15:05 AM »
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Devotion of Ruth ignores gray.
Compassion of Jeremiah ignores crimson.
Meekness of Isaac ignores gold.
First Edition Submissiveness of Mary ignores pale green.
Second Edition Submissiveness of Mary ignores brown.
Faith Shared ignores black and crimson if used by a female.
No Need for Spices lets female New Testament Heroes ignore a brigade of choice.
Child of Great Wisdom ignores Pharisees and Sadducees.

Wall of Fire ignores black and pale green.
Scarlet Line lets females ignore males.
But the lack of the word "ignore" in the ability text means the I Am's can't bring these two back.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 07:19:08 AM by The Schaef »

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 04:15:48 PM »
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So, you can ignore everything, but if you want to recur all your ignores with the I Am's, you'll have to choose between pale green and brown (the two versions of Submissiveness of Mary).
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The Schaef

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 04:43:25 PM »
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That has been the case with my white NT female ignore offenses, yes.  The good news is that No Need for Spices takes the edge off that decision, and if you were really digging, you could add either or both of the non-recurrable ignores.  You can't get them back with the Covenants, but a one-shot pale ignore and/or an all-male ignore might get you a critical block when you need it most.

With the addition of the new cards, the Submissiveness of Mary dilemma is not that bad.  What's tough about this offense is that it's still difficult to work around warrior-class ECs, and most cultures have a bunch of warriors in their defense (Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, etc).

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 04:47:29 PM »
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Pairing it with Gold/ehud/samsons sac/Ia/Angel of God might help.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 06:58:56 PM »
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What's so bad about WC EC's?
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 07:11:33 PM »
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The cov to recur ignores doesn't work vs them,
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The Schaef

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 07:50:13 PM »
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Right, and the power of the ignore offense comes from being able to go back and keep drawing out the right ignore card to stop the brigade you're facing.  Without additional help versus warrior class, you would get to ignore once or twice and then be out of ammo for the remainder of the game.  It's already a bit of a risky strategy as it is.  But man, when the cards fall right and you see the look on your opponent's face when you ignore his characters again and again and again and he has no way to stop you... deeply satisfying.

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2008, 07:59:39 PM »
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Well, Salome helps a bit with that. Also, maybe if you merge white with a little purple (throw in Moses, Elijah, and Transfiguration), you could use AoC to take out the majority of your opp's WC EC's (as well as others).
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 08:04:57 PM »
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...when the cards fall right and you see the look on your opponent's face when you ignore his characters again and again and again and he has no way to stop you... deeply satisfying.
I would think exactly the opposite.  Pulling this off once would be cool.  But after that it would make for a very boring game for both players.  Anytime one player just walks in for repeated LSs and the win, it is very dissatisfying in my experience.  I have been on the winning and losing sides of these games and they just aren't very fun.

The most fun games are where both players have LSs available to take, both players have offenses that are attacking, and both players have defenses that are blocking.  This is a complete game of Redemption the way it was intended to be played.  And it remains the best way to play.  Sitting there twiddling your thumbs on offense because all 3 of your site access cards are on the bottom of your deck is lame.  Sitting there twiddling your thumbs because your opponent won't draw any LSs, and your 3 LS creation cards are sitting on the bottom of your deck is also lame.  Sitting there twiddling you thumbs on defense because your opponent never attacks until you can't block is also lame.

I'm glad that this White strategy isn't competitive, and I hope that they never give a recurring WC enh to make it possible.

Offline lightningninja

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2008, 08:08:38 PM »
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...when the cards fall right and you see the look on your opponent's face when you ignore his characters again and again and again and he has no way to stop you... deeply satisfying.
I would think exactly the opposite.  Pulling this off once would be cool.  But after that it would make for a very boring game for both players.  Anytime one player just walks in for repeated LSs and the win, it is very dissatisfying in my experience.  I have been on the winning and losing sides of these games and they just aren't very fun.

The most fun games are where both players have LSs available to take, both players have offenses that are attacking, and both players have defenses that are blocking.  This is a complete game of Redemption the way it was intended to be played.  And it remains the best way to play.  Sitting there twiddling your thumbs on offense because all 3 of your site access cards are on the bottom of your deck is lame.  Sitting there twiddling your thumbs because your opponent won't draw any LSs, and your 3 LS creation cards are sitting on the bottom of your deck is also lame.  Sitting there twiddling you thumbs on defense because your opponent never attacks until you can't block is also lame.

I'm glad that this White strategy isn't competitive, and I hope that they never give a recurring WC enh to make it possible.
+1 Go look at his thread "shooting ourselves in the foot" to get a better understanding of what he is saying. I agree completely. :)
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2008, 10:51:00 PM »
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+1 Go look at his thread "shooting ourselves in the foot" to get a better understanding of what he is saying. I agree completely. :)
First you agree with me.  Then you reference a thread from a long time ago, which I actually started.  I'm going to have to double what I'm paying you to give me props here on the forum :)

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2008, 10:53:02 PM »
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+1 Go look at his thread "shooting ourselves in the foot" to get a better understanding of what he is saying. I agree completely. :)
First you agree with me.  Then you reference a thread from a long time ago, which I actually started.  I'm going to have to double what I'm paying you to give me props here on the forum :)
Lol I also agree with prof. I prefer big battle games. Though my offenses usually don't let you have much chance by the time my offense comes out. You've had a nice fun game with my defense. Usually ending in you not liking me much.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2008, 10:59:09 PM »
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Right, and the power of the ignore offense comes from being able to go back and keep drawing out the right ignore card to stop the brigade you're facing.  Without additional help versus warrior class, you would get to ignore once or twice and then be out of ammo for the remainder of the game.  It's already a bit of a risky strategy as it is.  But man, when the cards fall right and you see the look on your opponent's face when you ignore his characters again and again and again and he has no way to stop you... deeply satisfying.

There ARE other ways of doing this as well. I know I have told several of you my evil methods of doing this. ;)

Offline lightningninja

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2008, 11:34:29 PM »
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+1 Go look at his thread "shooting ourselves in the foot" to get a better understanding of what he is saying. I agree completely. :)
First you agree with me.  Then you reference a thread from a long time ago, which I actually started.  I'm going to have to double what I'm paying you to give me props here on the forum :)
Of course you started it. "Go look at his thread "shooting ourselves in the foot." I think the fact that you are trying to solve what I HATE the most is payment enough. So, to double it, I guess, just try harder! ;)
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Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2008, 12:02:23 AM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood
I would think exactly the opposite.  Pulling this off once would be cool.  But after that it would make for a very boring game for both players.  Anytime one player just walks in for repeated LSs and the win, it is very dissatisfying in my experience.  I have been on the winning and losing sides of these games and they just aren't very fun.
I have the complete opposite opinion.  Getting to the point where my opponent can't stop what I'm doing is really enjoyable for me.  I like seeing a combo come together and work to perfection.  I get more enjoyment from that than just winning random battles.  That isn't to say that I don't enjoy the other kinds of games though.  For sure I enjoy those, but there's something special about games where the 'unbeatable' combo comes out and dominates.  As and example, I played Kirk a decent time ago with a deck that had my anti-heroless combo in it(type 1).  I knew there'd be a chance that he would be playing heroless so I chose that deck to test it out as I hadn't used the combo in a deck before.  The combo came out and I won the game.  I remember these kinds of games more because of the satisfaction that comes from a combo working like it is supposed to.  Also, I wouldn't be bored if such a combo was used and worked against me.  That's one of those things that I would definitely give props to my opponent for a good, strong combo.  Even if I'm the victim, good strategy is good strategy.  I like to see good strategy.

Sean
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Daniel 4:1b

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2008, 01:20:05 AM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood
...Pulling this off once would be cool.  But after that it would make for a very boring game for both players...
...I chose that deck to test it out as I hadn't used the combo in a deck before...
Looks like we might actually agree.  It was cool to you because you hadn't done it before.  But if you did that every game, it would get boring for you and anyone you played with regularly.

Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2008, 09:52:21 AM »
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No, you're taking one sentence out my entire post and making it agree with you.  I would be just as pleased to use the combo again and again.  But this is more a type two mind set where you've usually got 4-5 of each card so the way you win battles tend to repeat itself.  It is not a coincidence that I enjoy type two a great deal more than type one.

Sean
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Daniel 4:1b

The Schaef

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2008, 10:17:34 AM »
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Considering that ignore isn't really all that tough to beat and there are now more cards to combat ignore strategies, AND Artifacts AND Fortresses, I really don't see what the problem is with being able to recur your battle winners, especially when it requires a blocker before it can be used, as opposed to an auto-ignore.

The thing that baffles me the most is complaining about the potential of a strategy like this from someone who used a Zeb deck against me in team play.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2008, 01:24:45 PM »
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Anti heroless combo sean? You wouldn't wanna PM me it would ya? :-p
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2008, 02:59:04 PM »
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The thing that baffles me the most is complaining about the potential of a strategy like this from someone who used a Zeb deck against me in team play.
lol I will admit that I used a Zeb strategy in TEAM play (and failed miserably with it).  Just because I don't like the strategy doesn't mean that I don't see the potential of it :)  I also appreciate that there are some new cards in RoA to stop ignoring.  I just don't want any more strength being added to what the ignore strategy already has.

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2008, 04:10:19 PM »
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There is nearly always something that can be done against any strategy on the books.  A person who finds himself truly without options, either has used up all his counters fending off a sustained attack on one front, or has not prepared himself to face that strategy (e.g. no J-Tower against deck discard).

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2008, 04:14:47 PM »
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...being able to recur your battle winners, especially when it requires a blocker before it can be used, as opposed to an auto-ignore.

*snickers*

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2008, 04:45:38 PM »
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There is nearly always something that can be done against any strategy on the books.  A person who finds himself truly without options, either has used up all his counters fending off a sustained attack on one front, or has not prepared himself to face that strategy (e.g. no J-Tower against deck discard).
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Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2008, 10:43:18 PM »
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Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR
Anti heroless combo sean? You wouldn't wanna PM me it would ya? :-p
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Sean
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2008, 10:48:25 PM »
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Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR
Anti heroless combo sean? You wouldn't wanna PM me it would ya? :-p
Altar of Dagon in Temple of Dagon
Lampstand active in Temple/Tabernacle
Altar of Ahaz

Sean
what's altar of Ahaz for? to stop sog and nj? nice combo, by the way.
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Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2008, 11:22:49 PM »
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Yeah. You make a couple of rescues, activate the combo, use SoG+NJ, stop making rescue attempts so they can't kill your arts, and win on timeout.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 02:32:30 PM by Tsavong Lah »
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Offline Sean

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2008, 12:17:29 AM »
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Actually, you need to play SoG/NJ before activating Altar of Ahaz unless you want to risk letting them play their SoG/NJ when you have to deactivate AoA later so that you can play yours.

Sean
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Daniel 4:1b

Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2008, 02:00:58 AM »
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Right, my bad. I switched the order a little.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: White ignore enhancements
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2008, 02:04:01 PM »
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Ah that combo.
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