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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Strategies and Combos => Topic started by: adotson85 on October 04, 2010, 01:21:15 AM
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Besides the obvious dominants, what cards do you consider staples now? I know that I don't use Harvest Time or Mayhem as much as I used to thanks to a certain site. I also expect some of the new lost souls will become staples as well as counters to Thad.
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either cards that have been stapled or sold in staples in the staples brand ;)
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Right.
Anyway, Herod's Temple is the only non-dom staple in my book.
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but honestly
chariot of fire is THE staple card that will never be replaced unless your dumb enough to not make it your staple card
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I see a couple people above that I would like to see as staple players at our Knoxville tournaments :)
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Besides the obvious dominants, what cards do you consider staples now? I know that I don't use Harvest Time or Mayhem as much as I used to thanks to a certain site. I also expect some of the new lost souls will become staples as well as counters to Thad.
Theese cards should be in tournamnet decks-
Reveal LS
Woman at the Well( well, depending on what you are using!)
Dragon Raid, Promised Land, Priestly Crown Etc. ( not all of those!!!, At least two. )
Golgotha( if not using TGT.)
And then, as you said, all of the DOMS ! ;)
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I see a couple people above that I would like to see as staple players at our Knoxville tournaments :)
why, ado, i didn't know you cared! :D ;)
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Theese cards should be in tournamnet decks-
Reveal LS
Woman at the Well( well, depending on what you are using!)
Dragon Raid, Promised Land, Priestly Crown Etc. ( not all of those!!!, At least two. )
Golgotha( if not using TGT.)
And then, as you said, all of the DOMS ! ;)
The Reveal LS would be pretty pointless in a D heavy deck.
So you put the Woman at the Well in every deck you make? Even with all the Nazareths running around? :)
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Eleazar's Sword.
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I think Captured Ark could still make it as a staple. Herod's Temple could almost a staple I think (but in a deck with something like 3 NT humans its fairly useless)
I am really bad at the staple game, my understanding of the definition of a "Staple Card" is one that adding it to ANY deck will make the deck better, such as Son of God, even with several cards that counter it, putting it in your deck has little to no downside for the incredible gain (a 2 point shift if played at the ideal time)
Herod's Temple is useless in any deck that doesn't use NT humans, now, if all decks were NT humans it could be a staple, but I don't think that is the case.
The Revealer LS is good, but in a slow deck there may be a better choice depending on how the deck works.
Maybe my definition is wrong, in which case I could see a lot more card being staples. Plus I don't know how all the Disciples play yet so maybe there will be a staple card in there that I have not considered yet.
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ANB
Eleazar's Sword
ET
Unified Kingdom
Eliashama the Priest
Tribal Elder
these are the ones in all the recent decks I've built.
Golgotha
Son of God
New Jerusalem
Angel of the Lord (pretty much always)
Christian Martyr
Grapes (okay, maybe not a staple, but I pretty much always use it)
Unholy Writ
Lampstand
DoN
D-Raid/Ends of the Earth
Promised Land (pretty much always)
2 Liner (pretty much always)
Female (usually...)
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Writ, 30 Pieces, Burial Shroud, two liner, female only
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My newest staples are Golgotha and Lurking.
Lurking is already an underused card, but it doubles in usefulness with Golgotha.
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Barring DOMS:
DR/Multi site
Site guard
Deck d/c ls
UN
Those are in 100% of all my decks I've made.
I vary decks A LOT.
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Buckler is a must-have, no matter what offense you are running.
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!TGT!
Gomer usually makes quite a few appearences as well as her good friends KoT and plot
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Buckler is a must-have, no matter what offense you are running.
your giving that stinking card too much credit
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I'd say Golg and CP are probably staples now.
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Barring DOMS:
DR/Multi site
Site guard
Deck d/c ls
UN
Those are in 100% of all my decks I've made.
I vary decks A LOT.
But aren't cards like Site Guard and Deck Discard lost souls only "staples" in decks with sites? You say you vary decks a lot, but do all of them use sites? If so, then sites would be staples too, right? I'm not singling you out, but just using this as one example.
I agree with what someone earlier said, in that we need to define the term "staple". I agree with the previous poster who personally hears the word "staple" as "something I am likely to put in every deck I make." Saying something like "Assyria's Tribute" is a staple card seems silly to me, unless that person is saying that every deck they ever make is Assyrians. Am I making sense? For example I put Golden Calf in every NT hero deck I make, but its never going in my banding red warriors deck, for obvious reasons. Shouldn't the term "staple" mean a card that benefits EVERY deck it is in, regardless of theme? This will usually mean the few cards that can actually find a place in every deck without brigade being an issue - Artifacts (including covenants and curses), Fortresses, Dominants, and Lost Souls. There may be a couple standalone characters that fit this bill too - Gomer, Uzzah, 12FG, KOT, Strong Angel, Woman at the Well, but as great as these cards are they are not in EVERY deck I make. Staple enhancements would have to be multi-color (I'm guessing), and I'm thinking very few of those apply (Torment and Brass Serpent promo maybe?). Sorry to ramble, but are we even in agreement on what "staple" means?
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Considering he listed a site as a staple.....
If we define staples as cards that will make any deck better, there will not be ANY. (Not even SOG. See Gabe's 2009 Nats winning t2-2p).
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Not only a site, but a Multi site, which makes Site guard that much better.
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Doesn't "Site Guard LS" say "single color site"?
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Doesn't "Site Guard LS" say "single color site"?
Nope
As for staple cards. I would say that they are a card that could go in 90% of decks. Sure you may not put it in Heroless or defenseless deck, but it would go in any normal deck.
SoG
NJ
AotL
GoW
CM
DoN
GoYS (I don't, but 90% of others do)
FA (I don't, but 90% of others do)
Mayhem (I don't, but 90% of others do)
Captured Ark
Confusion of Mind
Unknown Nation (except demon decks)
Chariot of Fire
Covenant of Noah
Unholy Writ
Hopper (except in big defense decks)
Revealer
Wanderer/Exchanger
The Amalekite's Slave (except demon decks)
Not sure on sites yet this year, but I suspect that several of the new ones will be in 90% of decks.
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Sorry for my earlier confusion about the "Site Guard" lost soul. I was confusing it with "Color Guard". In this regard I agree that using "Site Guard" with a multi-color site could be fun. Thanks.
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Prof you don't use Mayhem? And steff a staple is card that YOU always play in MOST decks. For me that's Miram. P.S Sorry for the caps.
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Haman's Gallows is greatness.
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Um, I think the professor may be a little confused about the Arts. I've seen fewer and fewer people using Captured Ark because of Nazareth, and I'm sure it's dipped below 90% by now. I also rarely see Covenant of Noah, and CoM I'd say is more 50/50. I've also seen fewer and fewer people using Hopper because of the FbtN LS, and that has also dipped below 90% imo.
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agreed. but i do think many people are still using cap'd ark despite nazareth. nazareth first appeared as a totally awesome card, but after putting it in practice extensively, the anti-searching really does cripple alot of decks (and other search staples), so i dont think people will be using it as much as first anticipated. i've seen fbtn lost soul being used ALOT, so much so that yes, putting hopper into a deck is a huge risk and could end up not only being a dead card, but an extra soul to rescue from you.
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Sorry for my earlier confusion about the "Site Guard" lost soul. I was confusing it with "Color Guard". In this regard I agree that using "Site Guard" with a multi-color site could be fun. Thanks.
SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Prof you don't use Mayhem?
Only in offense-heavy decks. and I usually don't play those. But most other people do.
I've seen fewer and fewer people using Captured Ark because of Nazareth, and I'm sure it's dipped below 90% by now.
This maybe true. As I said, I haven't played enough games with or against the new sites to see their impact yet.
I also rarely see Covenant of Noah, and CoM I'd say is more 50/50.
I agree that I rarely see CoN, but I maintain that it would still be helpful in 90% of decks. It can be used to win a battle by negating many common EEs that aren't CBN. It can be used to stop commonly used placed EEs like Abom or that orange or brown EE that stops heroes and fortresses. It can suck in a DoN so that other arts are safe. It can die for Uzzah to get a stop. It just seems to be helpful every game that I have it.
As for CoM, it stops all my opponent's SAs, that is totally awesome. And to get rid of it they almost always lose either a dom or 2 GEs (because they want to save their DoN), and that can slow down an offense a surprising amount.
I've also seen fewer and fewer people using Hopper because of the FbtN LS, and that has also dipped below 90% imo.
This also maybe true. I've played a few decks with the FbtN LS, but so far it hasn't been a problem with the Hopper. However, if it became a problem more than a few times, then I agree that I'd probably drop it out.
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Another thing to consider with Hopper V. FbtN is if you use Hopper, you can't use FbtN, and a lot of decks are sped up more by FbtN stopping Shuffler shenanigans than buy producing a soul that HT could produce more reliably.
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So it looks like there are fewer staples now thanks to Disciples. I hate anti-search.
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<3 Nazareth ^_^
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Mayhem should go in every deck imo. Defense heavy, offensive heavy, characterless....
Mayhem is the third best card in the game imo, beaten by the obvious Son of God and Eleazar's Sword.
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Mayhem should go in every deck imo. Defense heavy, offensive heavy, characterless....
Mayhem is the third best card in the game imo, beaten by the obvious Son of God and Eleazar's Sword.
I would almost agree with this pre-Nazareth.
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Mayhem should go in every deck imo. Defense heavy, offensive heavy, characterless....
Mayhem is the third best card in the game imo, beaten by the obvious Son of God and Eleazar's Sword.
I would actually disagree. I've never found Mayhem useful. At best it shuffles some good cards your opponent was holding for some bad ones and does the opposite for you. It's too chancy. Maybe I'm just a stickler for consistency, idk, but I rarely, if ever, put Mayhem in any deck. Cards that have a predictable outcome and can be relied on to reach that outcome > Mayhem.
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mayhem is the most powerful card-drawer in the game. many many many games have been won and lost because of it.
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It often reduces your opponent's hand size by 5+ cards while increasing yours.
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It often reduces your opponent's hand size by 5+ cards while increasing yours.
At best it shuffles some good cards your opponent was holding for some bad ones and does the opposite for you.
mayhem is the most powerful card-drawer in the game. many many many games have been won and lost because of it.
It's too chancy.......Cards that have a predictable outcome and can be relied on to reach that outcome > Mayhem.
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It often reduces your opponent's hand size by 5+ cards while increasing yours.
exactly. i have seen many games pre-determined from the 2nd turn when the 1st player empties his hand except for mayhem and drops it after his opponents draw, which usually results in an 11 card swing. very hard to recover from that.
It often reduces your opponent's hand size by 5+ cards while increasing yours.
At best it shuffles some good cards your opponent was holding for some bad ones and does the opposite for you.
mayhem is the most powerful card-drawer in the game. many many many games have been won and lost because of it.
It's too chancy.......Cards that have a predictable outcome and can be relied on to reach that outcome > Mayhem.
its clear you have not witnessed the brokensauce of mayhem from last season. its not about 'chance' or 'predictability'...its about sheer card advantage, which is true for 99% of ccg's out there.
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6 good cards > 11 mediocre cards. And that's true for 99% of ccg's out there.
I've had opponents drop Mayhem after I draw and I've ended up with such a better hand than I had before that I end up winning that turn or the next. It's inconsistent at best, regardless of card advantage.
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11 cards to 6 is ALWAYS better. If you get mediocre cards and they get good cards, you built your deck wrong.
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6 good cards > 11 mediocre cards. And that's true for 99% of ccg's out there.
I've had opponents drop Mayhem after I draw and I've ended up with such a better hand than I had before that I end up winning that turn or the next. It's inconsistent at best, regardless of card advantage.
where are you getting this mediocrity from? if every card in your deck is good, then how is 11 good cards not > than 6 good cards?
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If you're confident your deck building skills are on par with your opponents, Mayhem will help you almost every time. There are only rare occasions where Mayhem hurts you (assuming you play it correctly), and the same could be said about every other card.
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Any good card can be mediocre given certain circumstances, it all depends on the situation. If my opponent has UW up and I only have 1 hero with no DoN, then drawing DoN or a hero band in that 6 cards would make those 6 much better for that situation than whatever 11 I had before.
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this is also not to say anything of the various other applications mayhem can be used in as well. extra harvest time anyone?
Any good card can be mediocre given certain circumstances, it all depends on the situation. If my opponent has UW up and I only have 1 hero with no DoN, then drawing DoN or a hero band in that 6 cards would make those 6 much better for that situation than whatever 11 I had before.
with a properly built deck you minimize the chances of circumstances not being in your favor. at the very worse mayhem allows you to be ahead of your draw by 2 entire draws. whats not to like about getting a brand spankin new hand full of cards when you have no hand because you used it all?
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I'm not saying you shouldn't use it if you want to, I'm merely pointing out that it's inconsistent and I prefer consistency. You can put whatever you want in your deck, and I'll do the same.
with a properly built deck you minimize the chances of circumstances not being in your favor. at the very worse mayhem allows you to be ahead of your draw by 2 entire draws. whats not to like about getting a brand spankin new hand full of cards when you have no hand because you used it all?
With a properly built deck, it's actually relatively difficult to empty your hand, given that it's generally accepted that you have the same number of enhancements as you have characters. You're just as likely to have a hand full of enhancements when you draw Mayhem as a hand full of things you can put onto the FoP, especially since you keep enhancements in hand longer than other cards (usually). Maybe it's just the kind of decks I use, but I don't frequently "use it all" in my hand.
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and im just pointing out that what you confuse with 'inconsistent' is actually 'random'. when every card in your deck is uber-awesome, then mayhem can do nothing more than pay off.
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I think it's just a matter of personal opinion. I have not used Mayhem all that much since it came out. The only type of deck I've consistently used it in is T1 MP decks as an additional way to get LSs on the table. Maybe I just need to try it out some more.
Right now I think the only cards I consider staples are SoG, AotL, Grapes and Martyr. New Jerusalem is pretty close but there's a few types of decks I can think of where I wouldn't bother with it. I also have one or two decks without Grapes currently but that's due to not having enough copies yet.
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Yeah, the most obnoxious use of Mayhem is playing it JUST after the opponent draws 3. I always hate when that happens to me on my first draw.
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With a properly built deck, it's actually relatively difficult to empty your hand, given that it's generally accepted that you have the same number of enhancements as you have characters. You're just as likely to have a hand full of enhancements when you draw Mayhem as a hand full of things you can put onto the FoP, especially since you keep enhancements in hand longer than other cards (usually). Maybe it's just the kind of decks I use, but I don't frequently "use it all" in my hand.
maybe im a bit biased in this area, as my forte are speed decks and i usually cater my decks to having that big payoff from mayhem. i cant recall a single game last season where it had failed me. however, when i do build decks more defense-orientated or decks that have lots of hand-clog i do neglect to put mayhem in those decks.
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It's also useful for general hilarity:
At Nats in T1 2P, my friend was playing some guy who had two redeemed souls. He began a rescue attempt, and then declared he'd win, revealing a ITBattle winner and SoG/NJ.
So my friend plays Mayhem, and goes on to win.
Not typical, but funny nonetheless.
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haha, epic fail. just rewards for boasting. :)
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It's also useful for general hilarity:
At Nats in T1 2P, my friend was playing some guy who had two redeemed souls. He began a rescue attempt, and then declared he'd win, revealing a ITBattle winner and SoG/NJ.
So my friend plays Mayhem, and goes on to win.
Not typical, but funny nonetheless.
That is why hand searching and hand d/c is just so.........mean.
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That is why hand searching and hand d/c is just so AWESOME!
fixed