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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Strategies and Combos => Topic started by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 12:59:31 PM

Title: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 12:59:31 PM
This combo requires only 2 cards:

Gates of Hell
and
A Site

Before I post the combo I'll see if you can figure it out
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: LukeSnyder on August 03, 2009, 01:03:24 PM
I don't see how you can win the game with a fortress and a site... neither rescue lost souls ;)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Reggie Flores on August 03, 2009, 01:03:39 PM
hormah?

lol Luke
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: seeker on August 03, 2009, 01:05:31 PM
IS this type 1 or 2?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:06:26 PM
type 1

and I did leave a few cards out of the combo but they shouldn't be that hard to figure out and aren't needed to be drawn because gates will get them
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: LukeSnyder on August 03, 2009, 01:07:32 PM
hormah?

lol Luke

I thought of using hormah with GoH, but its not really that great. Unless you have a huge deck and use a ridiculous amount of expendable human ECs. That could actually be a playable defense, potentially. It would take a lot of tweaking.

*edit, never mind, i forgot that hormah puts itself under the deck, lol. I've been away from redemption for far too long :P
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:14:24 PM
here's another hint:

the deck will need to be about 1,000 cards if you can also get Angel at the Tomb

or 3,000 cards if you just want the original 2
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 03, 2009, 01:14:55 PM
I don't see how you can immediately win the game on your very first turn with this. :P At least, not with the version of Gates of Hell that I have; could you post yours just in case there's a difference?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Korunks on August 03, 2009, 01:15:15 PM
Quote
here's another hint:

the deck will need to be about 1,000 cards

rofl
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:17:09 PM
At worst.... this deck will tie every game
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:18:12 PM
Anyone wanna test this deck out in rts with a substitute card for gates?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: LukeSnyder on August 03, 2009, 01:18:43 PM
Well, there's so many ways to use GoH, why don't you just go ahead and tell us your combo idea?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: redemption99 on August 03, 2009, 01:18:55 PM
they have all the Texp cards rdy for RTS. Go to the RTS part of the forum and get them :P
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Sean on August 03, 2009, 01:19:04 PM
Any deck that needs to be 1,000 cards to work will have a very hard time winning on the first turn.  Even with 20 copies of Gates, have fun trying to get them in the first 10 turns, let alone the first turn.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: seeker on August 03, 2009, 01:19:43 PM
Just tell us
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 03, 2009, 01:21:33 PM
I thought of something: Is the answer, perhaps, abuse of the deck and hand d/c LS in Hormah?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:26:53 PM
Here is the combo:

You discard Most/All of your deck with Gates to pull out every Lost soul that when put in a site discards the top card of each opponent's deck or hand.

Now theoretically you need 50 deck discard lost souls which would be a

2,500 card deck (50*50)

but it can be cut in half if you keep in mind that they will draw their hand of 8 cards and if you throw in the lost soul that removes cards from sites (doesn't say when drawn) you can cut the number in almost half (you have to draw them in order or have multiple sites)

so we're looking around close to 20 deck discard lost souls instead: 20*50 = about 1,000 cards

you could even quite possibly bring it down to 500 cards if you get 10 hormah's in play which will reset the souls to the bottom
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: redemption99 on August 03, 2009, 01:29:32 PM
you'd have to get enough sites out to put all these LS in though....
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:31:15 PM
you only need 1 site if you use the site remover because you can just compensate by adding more cards into your deck if you dont draw them in order

Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:32:04 PM
and How are they going to win with 10 half rescued 2 liners?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: The Schaef on August 03, 2009, 01:32:11 PM
so your combo also requires Lost Souls.

And for you to get Gates immediately in a 2,500 card deck.

And 50 Sites.

And at least one Hero.

And for your opponent not to wipe out your combo.

And for none of your other essential cards to be discarded when you use High Places.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: seeker on August 03, 2009, 01:32:34 PM
plus you  would need to get gates out of a one thousand card deck
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Sean on August 03, 2009, 01:32:59 PM
I'm not sure what Polarius has in mind but I'm pretty sure it would be more reliable than this one.

Schaef meant to say Gates of Hell instead of High Places.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:35:27 PM
If 40 out of every 50 of my cards have some kind of searching ability for High Places or a Site, how hard is it really going to be to get it out in the first few turns.

and again guys, you  only need 1 site!
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: LukeSnyder on August 03, 2009, 01:36:38 PM
Actually, this idea has more merit than you guys are claiming. Because you could make nearly the entire deck defensive, with as many orange evil characters as possible. You would simply draw as normal, use the bronze laver, etc. until you get everything that you need to start the mill. Nothing could get through, and once the mill starts, heavens help your opponent.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:37:30 PM
I will show you guys the power of the unstoppable combo

I'll prob spend something like $200 on this deck and then gates will get banned
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Sean on August 03, 2009, 01:38:49 PM
I will show you guys the power of the unstoppable combo

I'll prob spend something like $200 on this deck and then gates will get banned
Have fun!
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:39:41 PM
If anyone wants to donate to the MGGB (Mission:Get Gates Banned) club please send me a PM
I'll be looking for about 20 Gates X-P
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 03, 2009, 01:40:24 PM
No matter how you build your deck, your biggest problem for this combo will always be drawing Gates of Hell. Also, it is necessary to draw at least one site and at least one hero to win. This combo is not unstoppable; it's just very big, and very unreliable.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: seeker on August 03, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
Its cool but kinda unrealistic
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: LukeSnyder on August 03, 2009, 01:44:03 PM
considering something like 80% of the deck will be evil cards, he should have no worries. In fact, you could build other combo decks on top of this. How about combining this with a sin in the camp deck?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 03, 2009, 01:45:10 PM
Why don't we perfect the first combo first. :P
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Sean on August 03, 2009, 01:46:37 PM
You would probably want green or gray in here so you could take advantage of Search and False Peace.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: The Schaef on August 03, 2009, 01:50:10 PM
and again guys, you  only need 1 site!

how do you only need one Site when you have no control over what Lost Souls you draw from the bottom and you always have to use the ability immediately upon draw?

I'm not debating the potential power of this deck, I'm only saying that given the circumstances that have to happen for this deck to work, it fulfills all the descriptors in the title except for the first turn part.

And the unstoppable part.

And the win every game part.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:50:27 PM
What is the first combo?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: LukeSnyder on August 03, 2009, 01:52:41 PM
What is the first combo?

The first combo being the one that you started this thread about, lol.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 03, 2009, 01:56:48 PM
Someone mentioned a combo Polarius made which I assumed to be the "first" that was mentioned

Anyways I'm compiling a list of cards that will help in getting out Gates and a Site Quicker
So far I have:

Zaccheus
I am Creator
Covenant Keepers
King Omri
Well Reopened
Angel of Warning
Zadok Anoints Solomon
Large Tree
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 03, 2009, 02:00:44 PM
...it fulfills all the descriptors in the title except for the first turn part.

And the unstoppable part.

And the win every game part.
So basically, this thread should be called "Combo with TexP cards that will make you." :)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: The Guardian on August 03, 2009, 02:53:52 PM
Just a thought...
If this combo were to ever become viable, I would guess Rob chooses to simply put a maximum deck size (or single card limit like T2) on T1 instead of banning a card.

Furthermore, all your opponent would need is one EC that has higher numbers than the one Hero you have and you won't win.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: sk on August 03, 2009, 03:01:18 PM
There was at least one conversation about such a cap at Nats.  Don't think it was at an official level, though.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: lightningninja on August 03, 2009, 03:22:59 PM
And once your opponent uses J-Tower? :P

I'm not sure this even works... there's a cap of 3 fortresses max, right?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: princeofthisgame on August 03, 2009, 03:23:37 PM
Actually, I think the cap that you're talking about, sk, is a cap on the number of cards in hand at a time..
Jeremy
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: sk on August 03, 2009, 05:17:40 PM
No, it was about a maximum number of copies of a card in T1, likely due to GoH, and was based on clarifying an unclear line in the T1 deck building rules.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: DaClock on August 03, 2009, 05:24:30 PM
I talked with Bryon about this at nationals. Basically, he said that they will make the 3-Forts-Per-Deck rule for T1 if anybody tries to make a huge deck.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Arch Angel on August 03, 2009, 05:26:28 PM
there's a cap of 3 fortresses max, right?
Only in t2. In t1 it's 1 SA card per 50 in your deck, I believe.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: lightningninja on August 03, 2009, 05:31:11 PM
I think, assuming this deck stayed legal, you'd either win or lose in 5 turns. I big offense would get to you first... or they'd lose.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Tsavong Lah on August 03, 2009, 05:40:20 PM
I talked with Bryon about this at nationals. Basically, he said that they will make the 3-Forts-Per-Deck rule for T1 if anybody tries to make a huge deck.

Three forts period or three of the same fort?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: sk on August 03, 2009, 05:42:41 PM
Probably three of each, just as it is in Type 2.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: The Guardian on August 03, 2009, 07:05:32 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there would be riots in the streets if we said max of 3 Forts total...  :P
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Tsavong Lah on August 03, 2009, 07:26:40 PM
I probably would have been one of the rioters. Hence my question. ;)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: DaClock on August 04, 2009, 01:50:44 AM
Yeah, it would be 3 of each. Basically Bryon was talking about adding a 3-Max to each card currently restricted to 1 per 50. For practical purposes he said they don't want to encourage HUGE decks.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: JDS on August 04, 2009, 04:56:05 AM
Some North East players came up with the combo: Gates + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Crown of Thorns.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 04, 2009, 10:17:37 AM
Have you seen this thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17044.30)? ::)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: The Schaef on August 04, 2009, 12:03:30 PM
Just a thought...
If this combo were to ever become viable, I would guess Rob chooses to simply put a maximum deck size (or single card limit like T2) on T1 instead of banning a card.

Exactly.  I would anticipate either a cap on deck size, or a cap on the number of copies allowed in a deck (as already exists with non-SA cards), which would effectively limit the size of your deck by default.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: crustpope on August 04, 2009, 12:34:20 PM
Just a note here.  I have made this deck on RTS and it does NOT work as advertized.  The biggest problem is that you need to draw multiple LS sites and if you do not draw multiple sites, and the gates of Hell ono the first turn, you are not going to get it done.  I even have 19 copied of Zaccheus in there to help with the GoH draw, and 140 sites, but this is not a guarranteed draw every turn at all.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 04, 2009, 12:37:31 PM
I have made this deck on RTS
Lol, that must have taken hours! :D
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: crustpope on August 04, 2009, 12:47:36 PM
I have made this deck on RTS
Lol, that must have taken hours! :D

About 2-3 to build it and self test it.  I played a game against prof underwood and found out that it is REALLY good at stalling a game.  with 19 3 liner LS's and 19 Shufflers.  It is going to be 20 turns before they even get a LS  ;)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Prof Underwood on August 04, 2009, 01:29:23 PM
I played a game against prof underwood and found out that it is REALLY good at stalling a game.  with 19 3 liner LS's and 19 Shufflers.  It is going to be 20 turns before they even get a LS  ;)
Matt is right, that this deck doesn't work as it should.  I practically drew out a 70 card deck before the combo started working.

He is also correct that it is REALLY good at stalling.  In our game we figured out that it would be 20 turns (of half 3-liners) for every 1 shuffler taken.  Since I needed 3 LSs to win, that would've been 60 turns.  And that was on top of another 20 turns of stalling that already happened due to me needing to get a hero out of my discard pile.  And on top of another 20 turns to draw out my 70 card deck.  I decided that it wasn't worth playing out 100 turns :)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 04, 2009, 01:33:54 PM
Im assuming you didnt use the lost soul that removes lost souls from sites? The whole idea is to discard most of your deck and get both the lost soul that discards the top and get the lost soul that removes souls from sites, then you just remove most of your deck and you effectively only need 1 site.

btw is there anyway you can send me the deck file? I would love to test it out
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: TimMierz on August 04, 2009, 01:38:00 PM
Im assuming you didnt use the lost soul that removes lost souls from sites? The whole idea is to discard most of your deck and get both the lost soul that discards the top and get the lost soul that removes souls from sites, then you just remove most of your deck and you effectively only need 1 site.

That's only true when you receive them in alternating order (discard, evict, discard, evict,...). You lose effectiveness every time two of the same appear next to each other with only one site.

Additionally, Mark noted that in his game he nearly drew his entire deck by the time the combo started, meaning that discarding 50 cards from his deck wouldn't do anything.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: The Schaef on August 04, 2009, 01:53:04 PM
Additionally, Mark noted that in his game he nearly drew his entire deck by the time the combo started, meaning that discarding 50 cards from his deck wouldn't do anything.

DING DING DING
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: D-man on August 04, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
Yes...this combo is  not very tournament viable due to time constraints.  In fact, any combo deck that is at least 800 cards will probably time out most games. :)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: TimMierz on August 04, 2009, 02:10:17 PM
DING DING DING

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic because I'm stating the obvious or just agreeing.

Anyways, for those curious, I've worked out the odds of drawing Gates on turn 1. Assuming a 2500 card deck with 357 Lost Soul cards and 50 Gates, the odds should be:

1 - [(2093/2143) * ... * (2086/2136)] = 0.172361698

So there's about a 17% chance of you drawing at least one copy in your initial 8, not counting cards that will let you easily search for it. Each card you draw carries roughly a 2% chance (1 per 50 cards).
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Prof Underwood on August 04, 2009, 02:18:29 PM
In fact, any combo deck that is at least 800 cards will probably time out most games. :)
It might take the whole time limit just to shuffle the deck :)
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Smokey on August 04, 2009, 02:20:44 PM
In fact, any combo deck that is at least 800 cards will probably time out most games. :)
It might take the whole time limit just to shuffle the deck :)

Mayhem = instant timeout
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: D-man on August 04, 2009, 02:47:53 PM
Exactly.  If this combo is ever viable, then all you have to do is include Mayhem and ANB and your guaranteed at least a timeout loss. :D
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 04, 2009, 11:31:12 PM
I was thinking of buying an automatic card shuffler for this deck.

at natz, the deck will just be in a huge metal box with the shuffler
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: crustpope on August 04, 2009, 11:51:16 PM
Im assuming you didnt use the lost soul that removes lost souls from sites? The whole idea is to discard most of your deck and get both the lost soul that discards the top and get the lost soul that removes souls from sites, then you just remove most of your deck and you effectively only need 1 site.

btw is there anyway you can send me the deck file? I would love to test it out

I posted it in deck strategies but its kind of moot now that Rob put a size limit on type 1 and 2.

The problem is that you have to get a Gates of hell and at least one site ( prefferably multiple sites) early in the game.  My deck had like 140 sites and 19 copies of Gates of hell anfd 19 copies of Zaccheus but I didnt get gates until it was 3/4 through the game.  He already had all the pieces he needed and I played to stall until I could figure out how to kill his Heros for good.


needless to say it is not an unstoppable combo, the size of the deck itself is a pretty sizable force to overcome.  but it did have a lot of good wualities

aside from the sheer impossibility of trying to build it.
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 05, 2009, 12:03:29 AM
I was looking at your post crust and I noticed some things wrong with how I would have went building the deck.

I would have dedicated nearly every card to looking for sites and forts and drawing and searching within those colors. I'd focus more on characters rather than enhancements that way I wouldnt have to match much stuff up. for example I am creator, Angel at shur and Covenant Keepers could help you get out zaccheus faster.

Also those 6/8 banding demons are generic so gates would let you have 30 or so sitting in your territory
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Gohanick on August 05, 2009, 12:04:31 AM
another cool combo with gates is if you have False Priests out, you can discard your false peace and play them
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 05, 2009, 12:07:43 AM
Let's just spoil every Gates combo, why don't we?
Title: Re: Unstoppable 1st Turn Combo with TexP cards that will make you win every game
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on August 05, 2009, 12:20:33 AM
Quote
so your combo also requires Lost Souls.

And for you to get Gates immediately in a 2,500 card deck.

And 50 Sites.

And at least one Hero.

And for your opponent not to wipe out your combo.

And for none of your other essential cards to be discarded when you use High Places.
lol.
Anyway this combo is a joke. Dominants, drawing your deck. If you can make a smaller version of this deck that discards a consistent twenty cards every game and have your offense/defense discard cards then you have a fun competetive deck. But this "thing" is neither.
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