Already on the list are some powerful counters to pre-block ignore.You just made my day :)
umm darius decree which lampstand can guard and jerusalem tower i mean seriously ht is not that bad wow.Neither of those work.
land dispute kills evil forts huh what oh noes wow
Cards that stop lampstand... making about 4 cards in your deck useless seems to go against the Redemption theme. I mean did we ever establish that fa and burial and destruction were overpowered? I mean if anything let's protect against GOOD doms, those are the powerful/broken ones.
A way to get around Cannot Be Negated.
ANB seems to be way overpowered... maybe if you remove the "remove this card from the game" ability it would be more balanced?why would that make ANB less overpowered?
Theme decks-- in general decks that follow a theme are very difficult to stop, since they've got all their own protect forts and "cannot be stopped if you're playing with this theme" cards. I would love to see cards that encourage theme-less decks.I find this ironic since you used to be one of the only people who played theme decks before priests, if I remember right. maybe it wasn't you...
1. Doms. They need to be stopped cold.
2. CBN on offense. Especially cards like Zeal that don't even need initiative.
3. For heaven's sake, pre-block everything. TGT, ET, Jacob are evil.
4. CBN on defense. The "end the battle" cards are fine, but no more Evil Spirit please.
5. Splash offenses still have not been punished nearly enough. Defensive ones have been emasculated.
I just reread the list to be sure, and I counted a grand total of 0 cannot be negated battle winners. A few "cannot be prevented"s and some non-battle-winner cannot be negated enhancements, but, like you two, I agree that battles are more fun when there is at least a potential for a little back and forth.
Keep the comments coming. They are very helpful.
I just reread the list to be sure, and I counted a grand total of 0 cannot be negated battle winners.
QuoteI just reread the list to be sure, and I counted a grand total of 0 cannot be negated battle winners.
I dunno..I'd count Evil Spirit, and under some circumstances I think A Child is Born, Romans Destroy Jerusalem, and some others that can't be negated except for a small exception.
And I'm pretty sure that Authority of Christ Promo, as well as Haman's Plot count as battle winners, unless you count protection fortresses, in which case, what's the point of them being Cannot be negated if you can't target anybody?
I forgot to mention CBN stuff earlier, but apparently that has already been addressed.there's always color guard.
I just want to say one more time, and hopefully some will agree with me: If we are able to get rid of evil protect fortresses too easily, we'd better be able to counter AoCP. In general, I'm not too fond of fortress discarders, because people typically only have two or three forts in a deck, and most of the time they are integrated into the player's strategy. I think any fortress discarders, especially of evil fortresses, should have lofty costs/conditions. Just my :2cents:
1 ban njRED, don't be a noob
I think they should expand on orange, red, musicians, and sadduce/pharacee (sp)1 ban njRED, don't be a noob
without NJ the game would last longer, and having nj in the game is a big +
i think the next set should be starters cause it's that time to release 2 new starter decks cause it's been so long since G/H and it's time to release I/J and introduce the new brigades and card types like territory, and such
Personally I think site-lock has become too easy. I think there should be ways to punish someone for playing with a lot of sites. I don't necessarily want to see the strategy go away, I just want to see more creativity than what I've seen.
Personally I think site-lock has become too easy. I think there should be ways to punish someone for playing with a lot of sites. I don't necessarily want to see the strategy go away, I just want to see more creativity than what I've seen.
talk about me you quit over a loss to 2 time nat champ so quit bashing me andy.1 ban njRED, don't be a noob
without NJ the game would last longer, and having nj in the game is a big +
i think the next set should be starters cause it's that time to release 2 new starter decks cause it's been so long since G/H and it's time to release I/J and introduce the new brigades and card types like territory, and such
He meant the NEW card list. :PRight. Sorry that wasn't clear.
He meant the NEW card list. :PRight. Sorry that wasn't clear.
On closer inspection, there are a few currently on the list that are similar to Overwhelmed by Philistines. That is, they have cannot be negated status if opponent has a certain type of card in battle/play. But cards like that rely on your OPPONENT to become cannot be negated, so they are not as powerful as the ones whose parameters you get to control.
In fact, the hardest thing to beat that I've seen is just a straight up FBN offense. People are so focused on counters and other stuff, that FBN just walks through.
The game, in my opinion, needs a new type of strategy. We have converts, straight discarding, removing, capturing, etc... Shuffling was introduced more recently, and I love that. We should just expand on varying strategies on how to win the battle. Set-asides make it interesting, you win the battle but they get their characters back, so it's not going to win you a game.
but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth. its just RIDICULOUS how much teching is needed in todays meta just to try and sustain a competitive deck.
The game, in my opinion, needs a new type of strategy. We have converts, straight discarding, removing, capturing, etc... Shuffling was introduced more recently, and I love that. We should just expand on varying strategies on how to win the battle. Set-asides make it interesting, you win the battle but they get their characters back, so it's not going to win you a game.How about re-introducing a withdraw strategy. Granted, it is very old, I also think there could be a lot of creativity to it. Plus, it would give brown something to do since so many people are complaining about its randomness... I mean brown already has the most withdraw cards. Just a thought.
but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth. its just RIDICULOUS how much teching is needed in todays meta just to try and sustain a competitive deck.Some one has never played Magic or any other card game for that matter ::)
I like both the card swapping and the withdrawing ideas. They would make very interesting strategies and would add another cool aspect to the game.Reveal and card swapping would work. "Reveal the top card of opponent's draw pile. If it is not a dominant, add it to your hand. If it is a lost soul, add it to owner's territory."
Quotebut this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth. its just RIDICULOUS how much teching is needed in todays meta just to try and sustain a competitive deck.Some one has never played Magic or any other card game for that matter ::)
Deck discard is really tough to stop.really? just use Journey to Egypt. for the most part, you'll win. speed also works efficiantly. Deck discard is something I don't want to see go, it's one of the most fun and unused strategy, due to the easy ignorence.
but this just proves how ridiculous the redemption meta has become. if you tech against ignore, then fbtn runs over you. if you tech against fbtn, then sites run over you. if you tech against sites...so on, so forth.This is something that I talked about a couple years ago I think. The idea is that as the game expands, it creates more flexibility of deck types, and more necessary "counters" to be able to break through them. At some point, it becomes impossible to include all the counters and still have room for a great deck.
If you can Dom Evil forts, you need to have a lot more anti-Play First.
Maybe we need to make a fortress that lets you do something every time an opponent plays a dominant. Hmmm...Something like A-bomb would be nice. If opponent plays a dominant, you may discard 1 card from their territory or set-aside area.
I don't remember if I've said this before, but I think it would be a fun idea to have a card that let you discard a card from your hand/deck to discard the same card from opponent's hand/deck, or something to that effect.This would be too easily broken. I would build a 100 card deck and then discard 10 heroes from my deck to discard all 10 of the heroes from my opponent's deck. Then they would sit there the rest of the game unable to make any rescues, and I would still have an entire offense left.
If you want to attack Gates of Hell, there are ways to do so without a dominant. You will see at least 3 in the next set.
We need more weapon-class enhancements for brigades that only have a couple (white and green seem to come to mind, but I'm sure there are others).
Oh, don't worry. I really like Gates of Hell. I'm looking at the three cards now:
If you want to attack Gates of Hell, there are ways to do so without a dominant. You will see at least 3 in the next set.
I'd just be careful with this. Orange is a decent defense right now but ONLY because Gates of Hell and Wandering Spirit exist. Taking away either of these instantly makes orange revert back to its terrible (only viable for T2) self, and honestly I think orange is the most creative thing in Redemption right now.
We need more weapon-class enhancements for brigades that only have a couple (white and green seem to come to mind, but I'm sure there are others).In my opinion, red and purple are the brigades that should have the vast majority of good weapons. The evil weapons will be in every color but orange.
You wanna know why Chris hates Gates ;)I know he hated it more after seeing what YOU did with it. :)
In my opinion, red and purple are the brigades that should have the vast majority of good weapons.
:amen: I've been thinking this for a long time now and I think I posted my concerns a while ago. I want to build a competitive green brigade deck that doesn't use prophets, a purple deck that doesn't use royalty, or a blue deck that doesn't use genesis. White, Purple, Red, and Silver have remained pretty nice in terms of variety (although purple is starting to go down the "only royalty" road). Thank you playtesters for that. Hence the reason 75%+ of my decks are one of those brigades, or combo decks. Defense has been decent but some brigades are really hard to not use themes, like gold (egyptians) and pale green (assyrians) and Philistines (although I must admit that with philistines you can approach them with different ways, site lock, banding, interrupts and negates, etc.), and I REALLY appreciate that. Hence the reason 80%+ of my decks this year have been Philistines.In my opinion, red and purple are the brigades that should have the vast majority of good weapons.To me, the theme idea is limiting the possibilities for deck creation. Having a blue offense with any cards that are not Genesis would be detrimental to your deck, yet there are only so many possiblities. It seems that anyone who does use a blue offense has the exact same offense as everyone else who uses blue.
I think this will get boring before too long. In the golden ages, my blue offense could be completely different than anyone else's blue offense, and they both could be equally effective. In some ways I miss those days.
To me, the theme idea is limiting the possibilities for deck creation. Having a blue offense with any cards that are not Genesis would be detrimental to your deck, yet there are only so many possiblities. It seems that anyone who does use a blue offense has the exact same offense as everyone else who uses blue.
I think this will get boring before too long. In the golden ages, my blue offense could be completely different than anyone else's blue offense, and they both could be equally effective. In some ways I miss those days.
I also agree that brigades should have more than just one or two main themes, and everything else just gets pushed aside.this forces them to print red prophets, like Professor mentioned above. or green genesis, or pale green egyptians.
Not saying to stop developing themes, but make it so that themes arent the ONLY useable cards in each brigade.
I think what is needed is the themes to expand to a point where you can have many different offenses of the same theme.I agree with this vision. However, this goal will take quite a while to reach, especially if our sets countinue to be TxP-size or smaller. In the meantime, I propose we make some multi-colored (more importantly, multi-theme) heroes. An all-color David or Moses would be so fun. ;D
I'd like more ways to convert ecs in territory, give heroless a break guys!
The three most developed themes are Prophets, Egyptians, and Babylonians. All three of these themes have a certain amount of diversity in how they are played (especially Prophets). The more we develop each theme, the more diverse they get.
That way, you could essentially have the "good old days" again, just that the two completely different green offenses are still prophet-based.
Well back in the day only the "best" heroes were used, well people who matter anyways ;).
The themes would be increased if you had a hard choice to include Judge A which does good against X or Judge B which grabs Y or Judge C which rips itself in a half.
The themes would be increased if you had a hard choice to include Judge A which does good against X or Judge B which grabs Y or Judge C which rips itself in a half.
That I can agree with, and I'm sure is what the Professor meant. I still think that we would either need many more sets or a few large sets to accomplish that goal.
Red Brigade WC Hand/Deck discarders
Genesis banding chain
Babylonian Lost Soul annhiliation
etc.
They could also give Egyptians some more site-lock card (since they have Building Egypt)
The truth is we need more diverse character abilitiesthe truth is... I am Ironman.
I'm a bit weary on that, just for biblical reasons. Egyptians didn't keep much of a closed door policy.The themes would be increased if you had a hard choice to include Judge A which does good against X or Judge B which grabs Y or Judge C which rips itself in a half.
That I can agree with, and I'm sure is what the Professor meant. I still think that we would either need many more sets or a few large sets to accomplish that goal.
Red Brigade WC Hand/Deck discarders
Genesis banding chain
Babylonian Lost Soul annhiliation
etc.
They could also give Egyptians some more site-lock card (since they have Building Egypt)
So everyone who used Red brigade (heroes, not the red Red Dragon) used the same heroes?When I started playing? Pretty much. Jael, Rahab, Abigail, Gad, and the rest of those no-SA heroes. :)
I personally think the recent expansions did a lot to diversify Green Prophets.
I'm a bit weary on that, just for biblical reasons. Egyptians didn't keep much of a closed door policy.The themes would be increased if you had a hard choice to include Judge A which does good against X or Judge B which grabs Y or Judge C which rips itself in a half.
That I can agree with, and I'm sure is what the Professor meant. I still think that we would either need many more sets or a few large sets to accomplish that goal.
Red Brigade WC Hand/Deck discarders
Genesis banding chain
Babylonian Lost Soul annhiliation
etc.
They could also give Egyptians some more site-lock card (since they have Building Egypt)
type 2 needs a fixPhineas and Hophni can be interrupted. just sayin'
Auto block defenese are just to easy using my pale green defense/splash brown (10 Cards)
I have 15 blocks that my opponate can't stop. The worst part is the 0/4 end battle cards have no downside. On top of that its not a combo, its choose our ec with low enough numbers to get initaitve and you win. Then you add 2k horses out there its game over.
I have not played a good site lock deck withthe current expansion but what i have seen even before priests was if this was played right you're in trouble. People are complaining about this in type one where most decsk are 60-75% offense with only a small defense, Now type 2 there are fulscale defenses so you can't just get by with 3 dr 3 eots.
I was just looking at RTS, Pale green can make 20 blocks that the other person can not do anything about. Please keep in mind FBTN is not a problem with essau.
5 0/4 end battles
5 Dou - this card is atleast 1 block if not 2
5 Possesd - Needs demon
5 Phineas/ELI
IF thats not enough then
Essau Comes out with CNBN captures
So theres a defense that requires 50 cards making 25 blocks and the other persons offesen can't touch it at all. (only thing i see that stops any of this would be blessings cutting down the effective enhacements to 20 blocks)
I personally think the recent expansions did a lot to diversify Green Prophets. Right up front you have to decide between pure Green, Green/Teal, or Green/TGT. If you go pure Green, you typically have to decide between Jeremiah abuse, Habbakuk/IaP territory abuse, traditional balanced, or Micah/Two Bears abuse.And in the next set, one of those subthemes gets more help, and a whole new green prophets subtheme debuts.
i'd rather have booster packs back over starters anyday.
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen ;)How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
Most of the fortresses were made for a reason, and I think few of them are overpowered besides TGT, which can be solved by cards besides fortress-killers. I don't know about you, but it's always annoying to me when my opponent bands to my characters. It's also very annoying when he kills my characters before I block with them. IMO, there are already enough - if not too many - ways to stop fortresses on the evil side: Spreading Mildew, Romans Destroy Jerusalem, King Hazael, Assyria Conquers Israel, Set Fire, A-bom, Battering Ram/Siegeworks, Besieged, and now Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin, and Axe all in the last set. Most of these cards don't even need initiative to be used, especially with High Places now. Good has Samson's Sacrifice, Trumpet Blast, and Burning Censer also. I think those who are complaining about fortresses need to change their decks a little, because there are fortress discarders in every brigade.
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen ;)How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen ;)How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
So only 2 that aren't conditional. That doesn't exactly seem to be dissuading everyone and their brother from still playing TGT.Spreading Mildew (via High Places), Abom (via High Places and a forced draw), Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin.That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen ;)How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
If TGT is the only fortress that you think needs to be gotten rid of, then fortress discarders are not the answer. The correct response, which Cactus is working on, is to make single-brigade defenses stable and viable.So only 2 that aren't conditional. That doesn't exactly seem to be dissuading everyone and their brother from still playing TGT.Spreading Mildew (via High Places), Abom (via High Places and a forced draw), Land Dispute (sometimes), Image of Jealousy, Destructive Sin.That is what I say to the people who whine about TGT, but they no listen ;)How many of that long list of fortress discarders can actually get rid of TGT without being played in battle?
People just need slower offenses, it'd solve the problem.or faster offenses. either works. either let them walk in, but you rescue it all first, or don't get a soul and don't let them get one. until the end of course, once you've massacred their offense.
Are people still complaining about TGT?
I think forts do not need any additional destroyers (Other than the set-aside forts).
The main thing that I believe needs help is, like other people have mentioned, having more diversity in a brigade. I was showing one of my playgroup members the deck I made him (exodus offense (thought it would be interesting to have a pure Exodus offense) and crimson defense). While explaining how all the cards work and the combos I put into the deck, he asked me if anyone uses a gold defense (I just showed him Miriam). After thinking awhile, I realize that no one does. It's not because I dislike gold defense so I never put them in any deck. It's because, besides Egyptians (which I had in one of my main decks), gold, IMHO, doesn't have much to offer as a stand alone brigade (wouldn't mind some one proving me wrong). I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now (can't really say orange because to me, they are still too new to have great diversity in the brigade).
God Bless
hey,Gil, that was excellent advice. Kurt and I noticed some issues with searching/shuffling time in our last few playtest games. I am going through the list and GREATLY reducing the number of search and shuffle abilities. Search abilities are, for the most part, being replaced by abilities like Susana's. Shuffle abilities are being replaced by "return to top (or bottom) of deck."
I have been worried a bit worried lately about the high number of cards that allow or require some sort of deck shuffling. This includes search, discard, and shuffle abilities. Now, with Hidden Treasures + Philistine Outpost, I could be shuffling at least every turn. I believe this is making games unnecessarily longer. What if I were to do piles every time I shuffled instead of just rifling? Even in a type 1 game (and even without piles), I run a greater risk of timing out just because of this.
Tied along with this, I'm wondering if the drawing + this searching that have an end result of opening up a very large pool of cards to play with is good for the game. Is that what the hand limit was in response to? I would recommend that to continue countering this, there be fewer draw and search cards and that there be better/easier/more ways to stop these strategies than Rain Becomes Dust. I recognize the value that this drawing and searching brings to the game - more cards = more options = more fun - one aspect of Redemption that is fundamentally better than MTG is the drawing of 3 rather than 1. However, this openness that things like the Devastator deck, Bronze Laver + Gates of Hell, Gifts + Hur, the Genesis theme, and other strategies bring to the game might swing the pendulum too far.
Thanx for the consideration!
L8er,
Gil
If the next set is as good as TxP (only two or three nearly useless cards, Zadook, I'm looking at you), great success.
I would like to see some unique weapon abilities.Overall, I agree that we need to make some reasonably good weapons. The only ones that anyone ever uses are the Horses, which are OP and should no longer be made. Most of the time, Warrior-Class is just used as an identifier. And it's a shame, because so much fun could be had with WC enhancements if we just tried.
and some type of dual wielder
And maybe a TC card that needs to be played on a certian type of hero that can take out one/all heroes from PF?how about one that bands them in to battle. "Interrupt the battle and band all heroes from Potter's Field into battle. Cannot be Negated if used by a hero with a Luke or John reference."
And maybe a TC card that needs to be played on a certian type of hero that can take out one/all heroes from PF?how about one that bands them in to battle. "Interrupt the battle and band all heroes from Potter's Field into battle. Cannot be Negated if used by a hero with a Luke or John reference."
not looking at the reference for the Field, so I just put Luke/John.
I prefer Ring Wraith's card over RotS.You mean R.O.U.S.?
You mean R.O.U.S.?Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.
Anyway, besides ROUSes, anything else too difficult to stop?
master K cheif wyns via TMNTexcept for that fact that Princess Bride beats TMNT any day.
except for this little known fact: In TMNT: Episode 5, Splinter visits the fireswamps and is attacked by The ROUS.master K cheif wyns via TMNTexcept for that fact that Princess Bride beats TMNT any day.
I am not talking in 3rd person because it is getting very old very fast. (Me being mad at Dwayne) but in saying that some search abilities are being replaced, DO NOT interfere with the new Attending Angel. it is a mainstay in my deck. it also just came out. I would be very upset and even take this to Rob Anderson himself if this was the case. i want answers.Ugh. I was not clear. I am talking about the list of cards for the 2010 set. We have a rough draft. A working card list that HAD a about 8-9 cards with search abilities. That is now down to 3 cards with search abilities.
im referring to t1, the most popular format at the moment. it doesnt take more than 5 seconds to shuffle a deck. please.
even a 9 year old can be taught the correct way to shuffle. is no one in your playgroup up to the simple task of showing a 9 year old the proper way to shuffle a deck after a search?
even a 9 year old can be taught the correct way to shuffle. is no one in your playgroup up to the simple task of showing a 9 year old the proper way to shuffle a deck after a search?
"So easy, a 9-year-old caveman can do it."even a 9 year old can be taught the correct way to shuffle. is no one in your playgroup up to the simple task of showing a 9 year old the proper way to shuffle a deck after a search?
That's just great. Now there will be 9 year olds plastered all over Geico billboards. :P
in geico, there's too much caveman and not enough cowbell
the last few pages of this thread is pretty much all cliche.
83248392 second shuffles are cliche.
83248392 second shuffles are cliche.
How old are you, like 9?
Simple, because this is about strategies and combos that need counters.And about cliches.
ooook, back on topic...I wouldn't exactly call Genesis cavemen, but...
we need more counters to the cavemen.
and i just lost the game ;)Dang it! Why do you have to ruin it for the entire Redemption community, you jerk!? ::)
Dang it Andyand i just lost the game ;)Dang it! Why do you have to ruin it for the entire Redemption community, you jerk!? ::)
83248392 second shuffles are cliche.
How old are you, like 9?
are you a caveman?
No. I am, however, a gecko.
No. I am, however, a gecko.
....pronounced Geek-o..... ;)
maybe everyone except me. but Simon Said that the game was over, and I was apart of that game, thus I am free.and i just lost the game ;)Dang it! Why do you have to ruin it for the entire Redemption community, you jerk!? ::)
Focus please, and you know it is sad when I am saying on topic.
I would love to see hand discard be a bit more viable. Deck d/c has all these play outside battle cards (Rash oath, pagan sac(with HP), etc) but hand d/c is all done in battle EXCEPT deceptive sin.
Only 2 years ago ;) Sides we ALL know this was a fluke ;)Focus please, and you know it is sad when I am saying on topic.
I would love to see hand discard be a bit more viable. Deck d/c has all these play outside battle cards (Rash oath, pagan sac(with HP), etc) but hand d/c is all done in battle EXCEPT deceptive sin.
...and I am Holy... and Confusion of Mind... and a couple Lost Souls
Just be careful... we had a hand d/c deck win nats recently... I don't think we want to give it tooo much power.
A hand control deck won type 2 nats this past years. So two years in a row a hand control deck has won both 1st place categories...how much do we need to boost it? Maybe focus on deck d/c not hand control too much. Slowly give it cards, 2 good cards here in one set and next year another couple good cards. You don't want to put out 4-6 great deck d/c cards in one set and everyone will be stalling lol.It really is a pickle when you take T2 into account (as it often is), since they can take any one awesome card and put five of them in a deck, making it more difficult to keep both T1 and T2 balanced.
But there is also twice as many cards to discard as well as it takes longer to get it going in type 2. Discarding one card from an opponent's deck in type 1 can really hinder them, especially if that one card happens to be a dominant or key offensive card. In type 2 you discard it that one offensive card or dominant, ok yeah it stinks, but I still have much more.When are you running 2 or more of a single dom?
when you have an Angel at the Tomb.But there is also twice as many cards to discard as well as it takes longer to get it going in type 2. Discarding one card from an opponent's deck in type 1 can really hinder them, especially if that one card happens to be a dominant or key offensive card. In type 2 you discard it that one offensive card or dominant, ok yeah it stinks, but I still have much more.When are you running 2 or more of a single dom?
Don't make it too strong, there is already Water Jar which IMO, is one of the strongest best cards ever made.That isn't truly deck d/c though.
Hand discard is, by nature, more powerful than deck discard. Deck discard hurts you, potentially, in the future. Hand discard often hurts you in the current turn, or at least the current round, more often than not.SPEED DOESN'T NEED HELP!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND??!!
In both cases, drawing fast will help you. This is yet another reason to pack a lot of drawing abilities.
Hand discard is fairly strong already. It'll get a little help, most likely, in the next set. But deck discard is not nearly as strong yet. It will likely get the more powerful new cards.
Wha? He didn't say speed was getting a boost. He said hand and especially deck discard would get boosts.Hand discard is, by nature, more powerful than deck discard. Deck discard hurts you, potentially, in the future. Hand discard often hurts you in the current turn, or at least the current round, more often than not.SPEED DOESN'T NEED HELP!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND??!!
In both cases, drawing fast will help you. This is yet another reason to pack a lot of drawing abilities.
Hand discard is fairly strong already. It'll get a little help, most likely, in the next set. But deck discard is not nearly as strong yet. It will likely get the more powerful new cards.
I misread.Wha? He didn't say speed was getting a boost. He said hand and especially deck discard would get boosts.Hand discard is, by nature, more powerful than deck discard. Deck discard hurts you, potentially, in the future. Hand discard often hurts you in the current turn, or at least the current round, more often than not.SPEED DOESN'T NEED HELP!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND??!!
In both cases, drawing fast will help you. This is yet another reason to pack a lot of drawing abilities.
Hand discard is fairly strong already. It'll get a little help, most likely, in the next set. But deck discard is not nearly as strong yet. It will likely get the more powerful new cards.
In both cases, drawing fast will help you. This is yet another reason to pack a lot of drawing abilities.I thought the "pack a lot of drawing abilities" was in reference to what's going to be in the pack. this is what I get for doing this after I wake up...
As for themes, expect them to continue, character-wise. However, expect at least half the new enhancements to be usable by "non-theme" characters.
Also, expect a couple new themes this year. :)
There is absolutely NO penalty for using blue cards that are not Genesis. You can use Ira, Seeker, and all the pre-2007 heroes that you want and you won't be hurt at all. We've had old school Type 1 players show up with their old pre-2007 tournament-winning decks and had no problem being competitive in today's tournaments. The old decks didn't dominate like they used to, but they were certainly decent.
However, expect at least half the new enhancements to be usable by "non-theme" characters.
These players will not be able to use the cool (and powerful) enhancements included in their tin effectively, unless they stick to the Genesis-only cards (penalized).Where is the penalty?
Crimson means all Babs? Crimson is the Brigade with The Leviathan, Zimri, Jereboam, Gomer, Red Dragon, and SSoS.Leviathan is not used in top decks anymore, Zimri is sometimes, Jereboam?, there is a new themed Gomer and she is not used too muich in crimson decks. I do think Red Dragon is, but SSoS is a theme, in orange for the most part.
Black can mean Sadducees just as easily as Philistines. It can also mean Abom. Sure, it's a specialized Brigade, but there are 3 specializations.You are right on this one.
Pale Green has PotW, Esau the Hunter, Beast from the Sea, the good Panic Demon, and Women as Snares. All Assyrians?Yes but Prince is splashed, Beast is not used as is Esau not used, the good Panic Demon no longer sees play, and Women is used for TGT.
And would you complain about Orange for being all Demons, or Teal for being all Priests, or Silver for being all Angels?Yeah right about that too.
Clearly the themes aren't the problem, just the lack of more than 10ish good cards per theme.I think this is what I meant. Thank you.
i think what we need are more new themes for each brigade, not just one exclusively. some already have them, but some also glaringly dont.and many that DO are majorly underdeveloped (see Musicians, Daniel heroes, etc.)
i think what we need are more new themes for each brigade, not just one exclusively. some already have them, but some also glaringly dont.This is the way we are going, especially for the themes that are small. Angels, Priests, Prophets, Genesis, Military, and Demons have more than enough characters and art to supply those brigades for a long, long time. In those brigades, expect some references to things like O.T. or N.T. prophets; O.T. warrior class red or N.T. warrior class red; Warrior class Angels or Prophet Angels; Priests based on Tabernacle, Solomon's Temple, Z's Temple, Herod's Temple; Female Genesis heroes, sons of Jacob, etc.
Right. There is only so much space in a set. Maybe a couple of those themes will get some help someday. :)i think what we need are more new themes for each brigade, not just one exclusively. some already have them, but some also glaringly dont.and many that DO are majorly underdeveloped (see Musicians, Daniel heroes, etc.)
Brown: Persians (mini-theme), Rebellious Israelites, evil rulers of JudahI would love to see that and Musicians to be viable, I think there is a lot of potential with musicians.
Nothing protects from it, and it can utterly shred an opponents offense if used at the right time.
Nothing protects from it, and it can utterly shred an opponents offense if used at the right time.
i am sustainer?
PG/Brown card (not sure what type) - No heroes with reduced stats may enter battle.If it's a character or an OT or TC enhancement, then it'll be way too easy to abuse.
I'd like to see a place card which decreases a hero by 0/3 and when that hero is discarded the card moves to another target. It'd be very strong and it would make decreases used.You mean this (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/leprosy.htm) card?
Sure, why not give brown a similar type card as well? They both have disease/decrease type stuff... so why can't brown have its own spreading place card?Printing the same card in multiple brigades is a horrible idea.
The Archers and face-down artifact discarders say hi ::)Sure, why not give brown a similar type card as well? They both have disease/decrease type stuff... so why can't brown have its own spreading place card?Printing the same card in multiple brigades is a horrible idea.
But wait! Here comes Eli The Priest who has had 3 cards printed of him!Hello miss Leah and who can forget Image of jesolsy?Eli the priest I'll give you but I have NO issue with cards with no S.a., wrong brigade, and never USED being reprinted.
The Archers and face-down artifact discarders say hi ::)As examples of how the same card in every brigade is a good thing? You really think that having the same card in every brigade is good for the game? Why not then just make everything multicolor? That would accomplish the same thing you seem to desire much more efficiently.
Ehud from ROA and patteys say hiSpecific characters being printed into the brigades which they fit into based on themes of those brigades is a good thing. That is far different than making a separate card for each brigade that then has the same special ability.
But wait! Here comes Eli The Priest who has had 3 cards printed of him!Hello miss Leah and who can forget Image of jesolsy?You seem to think that I'm talking about the exact same card or about reprints. I'm not talking about reprints, I'm talking about cards that have different titles and yet do the same thing which in essence become the same card, just in a different brigade. These cards end up making brigades more similar to each other and make the game stale. There is no reason why each brigade has to have an archer that has the exact same special ability. There is no reason why every brigade has to have a weapon that says to interrupt the battle, draw 2 cards, and play the next Enhancement. There is no reason why 4 out of 7(at the time they were printed) brigades need the same FbtN Hero. I'm all for having an archer in each brigade but that doesn't mean they should just be copies of each other. The special abilities of the Panic Demons are a perfect example of what similiar in different brigades should look like. Sure, they each can band, but hen they each do something completely different that coincides with their respective brigade.
But wait! Here comes Eli The Priest who has had 3 cards printed of him!
i know it was suposed to be gold teal. he is the only card with the honor of being reprited twice. it was cool wonder why the teal was left out?Uh.... Cards that were printed 3 times over (Ignoring the starter doms)
BUCKLER (0/2) < the game winning one
Buckler (3/2) WA
Buckler (0/5) Priests
Buckler Promo *
Bow and Arrow was once king, not sure if that's still the case.Well, it depends on whether you count both the C and the D Shoes of Peace (which I do), in which case it has 5 versions. Bow and Arrow has 4.
SPOILER FOR NEXT YEAR! BUCKLER PROMO!BUCKLER (0/2) < the game winning one
Buckler (3/2) WA
Buckler (0/5) Priests
Buckler Promo *
* Fixed. ;)
Those same players who are opening tins and getting Zebulun are also opening Thomas, blue Ehud, Ira, Trapped in Cleverness, etc. If they really want to use Zebulun's awesome ability (major benefit), then they can build a separate Genesis-only deck. If they want to use Ira, blue Ehud, and Thomas (benefit), then they can do that. I could just as easily argue that I am "penalized" for using Genesis-only because I don't get a FBN hero or a NT CNB hero or a blocker-choosing hero. It isn't a penalty, just a choice of benefits.
Bow and Arrow was once king, not sure if that's still the case.Well, it depends on whether you count both the C and the D Shoes of Peace (which I do), in which case it has 5 versions. Bow and Arrow has 4.
Why would new players want to use a crossbow when there are tactical missiles at their fingertips?
i now diagreee with you my friend genasis IS very strong yet the other deck is very strong also.YMT you have a pmThose same players who are opening tins and getting Zebulun are also opening Thomas, blue Ehud, Ira, Trapped in Cleverness, etc. If they really want to use Zebulun's awesome ability (major benefit), then they can build a separate Genesis-only deck. If they want to use Ira, blue Ehud, and Thomas (benefit), then they can do that. I could just as easily argue that I am "penalized" for using Genesis-only because I don't get a FBN hero or a NT CNB hero or a blocker-choosing hero. It isn't a penalty, just a choice of benefits.
I continue to disagree. ;)
They may be opening Thomas, Ehud, and Ira, but they're not putting them in their blue offense decks. What good is a FBTN hero when your opponent has CBN battle winners? What good is Thomas if he makes your other Genesis cards useless, and you never get initiative? What good are your CBN Genesis battle winners if you can't use them?
A Genesis offense is quite potent at the National level. A Thomas/Ehud/Ira deck will not get you very far at a Local. Why would new players want to use a crossbow when there are tactical missiles at their fingertips?
How precisely is a Nuke tactical? It's a NUKE! It doesn't need to be tactical.
How precisely is a Nuke tactical? It's a NUKE! It doesn't need to be tactical.
They just need to be precise enough to target a country...... say, Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Italy, Syria, Greece, Hades, etc.
And I bet that radiation cloud is smart enough to stay within the borders, just like cigarette smoke is smart enough to stay in the "Smoking" section of a restaurant/bar.
;)
Bow and Arrow (Red): 2 versions (A/blue pack [2/1] and C [3/1])I don't consider the good and the evil Bow and Arrows the same, especially since they have different verses. But if you consider them the same because they have the same name, then yes, they win by a lot.
Bow and Arrow (Gold): 2 versions (Warriors [interrupt & prevent] and Kings [negate])
Bow and Arrow (Gray): 3 versions (A/blue pack [2/1], Warriors/C [3/4], Kings [3/2])
Bow and Arrow (total): 7 versions, 10 instances
Shoes of Peace: promo/A/C/D [3/3], F [3/4] - 2 versions, 5 instances
A Thomas/Ehud/Ira deck will not get you very far at a Local.
That sounds like a challenge to those who are great at deck building :).
yeah, blue is pretty lackluster without its genesis theme. you have jacob/cap, thats about it...but even that requires a different brigade hero, and jacob himself is still genesis... :PI wouldn't call Jacob "Genesis" for this since he was around long before the genesis theme.
I wouldn't call Jacob "Genesis" for this since he was around long before the genesis theme.
Then you steal theirs, give them a c/d one and RUN!I wouldn't call Jacob "Genesis" for this since he was around long before the genesis theme.
But what if they use the new one that can play a Genesis enhancement? ::)
What else would you do with him... ::)
The next set is in development. Now is the time to voice concerns about cards that are tough to beat with the available card pool. In my opinion, nothing is broken in Redemption right now. But there are some powerful cards and combos, to be sure.needs mire things like Kings Sword, To Stop Immunity
In your opinion, what needs more counters?
Already on the list are some powerful counters to pre-block ignore. Is there anything else that needs addressing? Speak now, or hold your peace until this time next year. :)
Also there needs to be more cards to hurt White brigade, ang TGT, both I personly think have grown to Powerful!The next set is in development. Now is the time to voice concerns about cards that are tough to beat with the available card pool. In my opinion, nothing is broken in Redemption right now. But there are some powerful cards and combos, to be sure.needs mire things like Kings Sword, To Stop Immunity
In your opinion, what needs more counters?
Already on the list are some powerful counters to pre-block ignore. Is there anything else that needs addressing? Speak now, or hold your peace until this time next year. :)
Can you make something that... is like, a half evel character and half hero, and you choose when you draw what it will be?not biblically.
Can you make something that... is like, a half evel character and half hero, and you choose when you draw what it will be?not biblically.
how.Can you make something that... is like, a half evel character and half hero, and you choose when you draw what it will be?not biblically.
yes biblically.
Also there needs to be more cards to hurt White brigadehahahaha. Good one, wait you were being serious. White needs the second most help, behind red. But not everything can be strong and playable, there are just going to be dominant colors/themes/strategies, but please elaborate more on white needing to be hurt.
+1 Heroless may be okay atm, but with the way things are going it needs SERIOUS help.Heroless is much improve since I invented it in 2003... No one every gives me credit/ or argues with me about that... it's like I become invisible... Hello? Helloo? echo echo echo?
+1 Heroless may be okay atm, but with the way things are going it needs SERIOUS help.Heroless is much improve since I invented it in 2003... No one every gives me credit/ or argues with me about that... it's like I become invisible... Hello? Helloo? echo echo echo?
A tournament host even e-mailed Doug Gray because she thought I was cheating... Hello? echo? echoooo?
;D
+1 Heroless may be okay atm, but with the way things are going it needs SERIOUS help.Heroless is much improve since I invented it in 2003... No one every gives me credit/ or argues with me about that... it's like I become invisible... Hello? Helloo? echo echo echo?
A tournament host even e-mailed Doug Gray because she thought I was cheating... Hello? echo? echoooo?
;D
Do you have proof of your claim? All evidence I have seen/heard/read points to RR being the first one to create a Heroless deck that could actually win games. I'm sure that most other people on here would agree with me. Do you still have the decklist?
My deck was made at AW(right after nationals 04'). I had heard of heroless as a joke but had never seen one. My deck took 25th? at nationals(05')(and 15th 08') the year it got accepted as being a real working deck and actually won tournaments that year. So I guess I made mine the first tournament winning heroless? (Ironically enough, I didn't use S/P till priests, I used Babylon the Great and had to do ruling fights to make sure it was a human.)
Hm, you are correct. I forgot about that.
So
2002 - Heroless Made? - MetalPsalm
2004 - Heroless takes form - RR
2005 - Heroless places 25th at nationals. - RR
2007 - Heroless considered archetype - RR?
2007 - Heroless wins tournament - Prof. Alstad
2008 - Heroless places 15th at nationals - RR
2010 - Heroless places 1st at nationals in MN - RR?
My deck was made at AW(right after nationals 04'). I had heard of heroless as a joke but had never seen one...So, I made the first one that was a joke, and others made the ones that won? I can accept that! :DQuoteSo
2002 - Heroless Made? - MetalPsalm
2004 - Heroless takes form - RR
2005 - Heroless places 25th at nationals. - RR
2007 - Heroless considered archetype - RR?
2007 - Heroless wins tournament - Prof. Alstad
2008 - Heroless places 15th at nationals - RR
I have arrived! [Does Happy Dance of Arrival]Anyway, Heroless has a long and storied history that is apparently shrouded in mystery. Wherever it came from, it was once a ridiculous deck concept that turned into a great deck type.
Oh, man, when I first presented the idea, and took it to tournaments, the "Forests Echoed with Laughter"
The first one was called "Nobodies' Hero". I think this was it as memory serves:
Cards in deck: 54
Lost Souls: 7
Lost Soul X 4 generic
Lost Soul (female only)
Lost Soul (N.T. only)
Lost Souls (2-line)
Lamb Dominants: 2
Angel of the Lord
Son of God
Grim Reaper Dominants: 2
Burial
Christian Martyr
Fortresses: 3
Goshen
Kingdoms of the World
Potter's Field
Artifacts: 4
Holy Grail
Holy of Holies
Priestly Breastplate
Tables of the Law
White Hero Enhancements: 1
Lamb's Righteousness
Red Hero Enhancements: 3
Empty Tomb, The
Power of the Cross
Sound the Alarm
Gold Hero Enhancements: 2
A New Creation
Peace
Green Hero Enhancements: 4
Repentance
Search
Stone Cut without Hands
Unity in Christ
Blue Hero Enhancements: 6
Alabaster Jar
Baptism
Chastisement of the Lord
Courage
Cup of Wrath
Obedience of Noah
Purple Hero Enhancements: 1
Ezekiel's Stick
Crimson Evil Characters: 3
Fallen Angel
Gomer
Red Dragon (Unlimited)
Pale Green Evil Characters: 3
Beast from the Sea (Warriors)
Messenger of Satan
Roman Jailer
Black Evil Characters: 2
Goliath
Lot's Wife
Gray Evil Characters: 3
Job's Wife
Saph (Warriors)
Saul/Paul
Brown Evil Characters: 2
Beast from the Earth
Esau
Multi-Color Evil Enhancements: 1
Dance of Death
Pale Green Evil Enhancements: 1
Stocks
Black Evil Enhancements: 2
Ancient Evil
Net
Brown Evil Enhancements: 2
Cage
Gibeonite Treaty
(it was probably 63 with sites... I've slept since then, but this is the gist of it)
And now, we return you to your regularly scheduled programming
immunity isn't that hard to stop. ignore is.But arnt immunity, and ignore the same?
Immunity = Can not be effected by (Card that the first card is immune against)'s Attack */, enhancements or S.A. unless they are regardless of immunity/interrupt the immunity. You still need your attack to be high enough to kill the other person, because of this they only can play cards till their defense /* is higher than your offense */. After that it is a stalemate and initiative passes back and forth.immunity isn't that hard to stop. ignore is.But arnt immunity, and ignore the same?
Ignore = Can not be effected by (Card that the first card is immune against)'s anything, you also kick them out of battle if they don't negate by the end of battle, because of this they have infinite ability to play cards.Even further, Ignore means that neither the ignorer or the ignoree can effect each other at all. However, since the ignorer is always winning, the ignoree always has initiative until the ignore is negated.
(imagine an Emperor Nero that wont ever leave with Household Idols and Lampstand up),
which is why I play FBTN! oh... wait...(imagine an Emperor Nero that wont ever leave with Household Idols and Lampstand up),
Philistines has a way to do almost exactly that: For the cost of just one evil card, which can be recurrable if you play it right, you can use Philstine Outpost to retrieve Philistine Garrison from the discard pile.
very happy to see doms, forts, and pre-block ignore at the top.We ending up hitting evil forts a bit softer than I'd anticipated. It was too important to keep the territory protection. Still, they do get hit. :)
This sounds very, very promising.very happy to see doms, forts, and pre-block ignore at the top.We ending up hitting evil forts a bit softer than I'd anticipated. It was too important to keep the territory protection. Still, they do get hit. :)
Oh, and a little "insider trading" info: expect the price of the "N.T. hero only" Lost Soul to drop a bit by late August. :)I can't see how it will, considering right now only 2 strategies use NT's, and the other ones will be hard to add to in just one set.
I can't see how it will, considering right now only 2 strategies use NT's, and the other ones will be hard to add to in just one set.
Which of the remaining four brigades (red, green, purple and blue) do you think will get them?I think Green is the most likely, as the only two cards in the game that reference disciples are Martha's Hospitality and Ordained as a Disciple. Not to mention a few of the disciples can be classified as prophets. Purple or Blue are also likely, but hopefully Deacons will get one (if not both ;D) of those two brigades. I highly doubt Red will get disciples, especially knowing what I already do about the new set, and I also highly doubt that the disciples will be scattered, as the playtesters have voiced their opposition to this already. (Look for that one thread where someone (Sean or Pol I think) made a set of disciples reprints and you should find this.)
Calebyou're a hero?
Blue Deacon
May band all deacons in play into battle
identifiers: annoying sarcastic troll