Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Strategies and Combos => Topic started by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 10, 2019, 07:51:19 PM

Title: Free Dom Search!
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 10, 2019, 07:51:19 PM

Using this card:

Spoiler (hover to show)

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flandofredemption.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F01%2F221-Fullness-of-Time.png&hash=450d3848b375db33564ff5c07b0dbbf5404e8928) Because there isn't a minimum specified releasing "contents" works if there's nothing here.

Expect a fix of some kind soon

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: kram1138 on May 10, 2019, 08:26:39 PM

I know we always talk about how the old cards are poorly worded, and they definitely are. But even the new cards often have ways of using them that aren't intended. I think using ":" was a big step forward in having more precise and less verbose language, but I think more can be done to expand on the language used in the cards. More symbols like ":" that have intuitive meanings would only be a benefit. It wouldn't be hard to introduce things like ">", "<" for indicating minimums and maximums. Maybe brackets for logical grouping. Or using icons for indicating type or brigade. I'm sure others could come up with more things that might make abilities more precise, more intuitive and less verbose.

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: thejambi on May 11, 2019, 06:42:03 AM

What does this currently allow you to do that was not intended? You would still only be able to do that when you rescue and discard that card, right?

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: goalieking87 on May 11, 2019, 09:19:20 AM

Quote from: thejambi on May 11, 2019, 06:42:03 AM

What does this currently allow you to do that was not intended? You would still only be able to do that when you rescue and discard that card, right?

He’s just saying you don’t have to have a green Prophet in there to be released along with the discard. Since it gets released anyway, it’s probably not that big of a deal, but the fortress can function even if you only have one green Prophet (and it doesn’t need to be OT since that only applies to the Prophet being held).

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: Gabe on May 11, 2019, 10:07:29 AM

I think John jumped the gun on this post. We started discussing this last night. We wrote and tested this ability with the understanding that "contents" required at least 1 "content" in order for the requirement to be met. As we've currently defined contents in the REG I think that's still accurate. If anything we need to adjust the wording of contents if that isn't the case.

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 11, 2019, 10:53:31 AM

Quote from: Gabe on May 11, 2019, 10:07:29 AM

I think John jumped the gun on this post. We started discussing this last night. We wrote and tested this ability with the understanding that "contents" required at least 1 "content" in order for the requirement to be met. As we've currently defined contents in the REG I think that's still accurate. If anything we need to adjust the wording of contents if that isn't the case.

Womp womp.

I thought we were talking about adding it, not that it was already there. Ah well

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: kram1138 on May 11, 2019, 11:29:29 AM

Ah, that was the reasoning. I read it as "release contents and (discard this card to search for Dom)". It makes sense to me now that you couldn't do it, but I still think we could have abilities that are more precise.

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: TheJaylor on May 11, 2019, 11:39:07 AM

Does that mean Raider's Camp is no longer fun, or is "release all Heroes from here" distinct from "release contents"? Or was RC fixed/errata'd awhile ago and I just didn't hear about it?

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: RedemptionAggie on May 11, 2019, 12:26:17 PM

"Release all Heroes from here" is distinct, and "all" of something still works even if there isn't any. But RC was given errata with ORCID.

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: Reth on May 11, 2019, 02:10:57 PM

Maybe I didn't get it - but is the "problem" here that there is in fact no precondition to search for a Dom in deck besides DCing this card? Hasn't this been intended?

If not, shouldn't wording be like in similar cards, e.g. like "you may release contents to discard this card and take" - shouldn't the part before the "to" then be precondition for everything following (here DC that fortress and take a Dom from deck)?

Or did I misunderstand the entire topic?

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: RedemptionAggie on May 11, 2019, 03:53:27 PM

For cost-benefit abilities, everything preceding "to" is the cost. So it's "(you may release contents and discard this card) to (take a good Dom from deck)". If you don't do all of the cost, you don't get the benefit.

The issue was confusion between "contents" not existing if there's not a card considered "contents", and 0 cards being a legal number of targets for other abilities. Locations exist even if there are no cards in them, so a hand of 0 cards is still a hand, so it can be shuffled; "all/any number" of cards includes 0 cards; etc.

Title: Re: Free Dom Search!
Post by: Reth on May 11, 2019, 04:29:17 PM

Ok, if it is combined like that the discard needs to be placed before the to as a part of the costs. But then it will be more difficult to get the SA done that it only works if content > 0 will be released. Or is the card intended to also work without any released content in terms of DC'ing and DOM taking?