New Redemption Grab Bag now includes an assortment of 500 cards from five (5) different expansion sets. Available at Cactus website.
I appreciate understanding your rational. Honestly, I understand that from a game play stand point and wouldn't consider that petty or unsportsmanlike. I think previously struggled with the thought that timing out each turn was simply to " get back" at a player who brings a stop watch.
Thank you for clarifying :-)
I guessed I missed the original thread, but I will reiterate my previous concerns with setting time limits. I have young players who have learning disabilities, autism, and general apprehension issues. To bring timers, stop watches and the like would unnecessarily intimidate and frustrate them. This kind of legalism will drive them away from Redemption. I would hope that we would not want to create an exclusive and elitist game atmosphere at official tournaments. I certainly will not condone this at my personal tournaments. Be it known that if you are coming to my tournaments, stop watches and other timing mechanisms will not be allowed. If you are concerned about your opponent stalling, call me over to your table and I will observe, then decide if a warning is warranted.
I am curious what you would think of a player elected to use a stop watch in top cut only at nationals?
Quote from: jbeers285 on April 24, 2015, 10:35:41 PMI am curious what you would think of a player elected to use a stop watch in top cut only at nationals?I am curious why you would assume a player with a learning disability, autism or general apprehension issues would not be able to make top cut.
Because, and I'm really not trying to sound mean, they probably wouldn't.
Honestly top cut feels like your bring baked in a pressure cooker, not sure how much worse a timer could make it.
I would like to take this chance to recast my statements in regard to how I would play if faced with an opponent who brought a stop watch to our game...If I ever face an opponent with a turn timer or a stop watch, I would jump to two immediate conclusions: My opponent feels his deck plays best at a certain pace.My opponent is unlikely to grant me any leeway in those situations that arise in most every game where the board state becomes complicated and additional time to plan would be valuable.My response to the first of these conclusions, could well be to come to the conclusion (if my deck supported it) that it is in my strategic interest to reduce the tempo of my play. There is clearly no rule against a player playing with a deliberate tempo, as we all know of players--even those of the highest caliber--for whom spending close to the full amount of allotted time on their turns is not unexpected. There is also clearly no rule against a player choosing to vary his tempo to suit a strategic or tactical purpose.In response to the second of my conclusions, the only rational (used in the game theoretic sense) approach would be to do as much pre-calculation of possible complicated game states and to spend time attempting to plan/create a favorable situation for myself. Additional calculations of this nature inherently require more time. There is clearly no rule against a player taking sufficient time (with the stated limits) to plan his course of play.The final result is that for purely rational reasons (once again from a game theoretic stand point) my turns probably will end up taking significantly longer when playing against a player who decides to bring a stop watch or timing clock to a game than would otherwise have been the case.
1. I am offended by the fact that you (YMT) chose to see view my comment in the worst light possible.
My only concern with clocks/timers at a tournament is that it will really run off new and younger players. I know from experience how slow young and new players can be considering that out of my current group of about 10 only 3 (and 2 active) are about 18 years of age. Most of my kids are playing with starter decks plus a handful of cards they have collected, so they have played the same decks probably close to 50 times, but yet still take about a hour to play a game. They are still not use to the game and knowing exactly what to do does not come naturally to them. For instance just this Wednesday, I had Josh (knoxyouthminster) playing a I/J deck against a personal deck that I just helped a player build and was teaching how to play. He would ask me almost every single turn what I would do, and if I even implied that I knew what I would do, the fact that he would make the "wrong" decision completely stressed him out. Now adding a timer to the situation and saying not only do you have to make the "perfect decision" (at least in their mind) and then do it within this extremely detailed time frame, they would just opt to give up their turn even with a sure RA in their hand, just because of the stress. Now I myself would feel no pressure with a timer, due to the fact that I will play my game a the same pace regardless, because I know what I want to do and how to do it. Of course the fact that I am not a top player has nothing to do with this, I have just been playing long enough that I know the cards and what I want. I feel like that if we want this game to continue and grow (which requires new and potentially young) players, we need to be very careful that this game is presented as open and fun, and I don't think a timer is a good way to do that. Now all that being said I do tell them all the time that they need to learn to focus and play the game without distractions because when they play other people they will have to do that, and it does help. There are ways to make sure people don't stall (both intentionally and unintentionally), I just don't think timers are that method!
Again, this is an assumption that I don't feel is entirely accurate (and will not assume the worst in), especially given YMT's additional response (which made no accusations towards you or your statements). YMT made his position clear about his opinions on timers, and seems to be saying back to you that it doesn't matter what tournament, he does not want the added pressure put on players because it can adversely harm certain individuals.
The good news is that you will not ever have to worry about meeting me in person.
Quote from: TheHobbit on April 25, 2015, 02:27:23 AMHonestly top cut feels like your bring baked in a pressure cooker, not sure how much worse a timer could make it.How does this post not have more + 1s
Unless he goes to Disney World, in which case I'm sure the two of you would thoroughly enjoy sitting down and playing a game together, provided Josiah leaves his timer behind.
Quote from: YourMathTeacher on April 24, 2015, 11:08:32 PMQuote from: jbeers285 on April 24, 2015, 10:35:41 PMI am curious what you would think of a player elected to use a stop watch in top cut only at nationals?I am curious why you would assume a player with a learning disability, autism or general apprehension issues would not be able to make top cut.Because, and I'm really not trying to sound mean, they probably wouldn't.
This is seriously the worst argument I think I've ever seen on these forums. Like, seriously guys?
Quote from: Chris on April 26, 2015, 01:22:23 PMThis is seriously the worst argument I think I've ever seen on these forums. Like, seriously guys?Goats? That was worse.Wait... do you mean "worst argument" as in "Principles of Debate," or as in "Hatfields vs. McCoys?"Depending on which one you meant, I already have a scathing response ready. You have 90 seconds to reply.
Quote from: Drrek on April 25, 2015, 12:46:42 AMQuote from: YourMathTeacher on April 24, 2015, 11:08:32 PMQuote from: jbeers285 on April 24, 2015, 10:35:41 PMI am curious what you would think of a player elected to use a stop watch in top cut only at nationals?I am curious why you would assume a player with a learning disability, autism or general apprehension issues would not be able to make top cut.Because, and I'm really not trying to sound mean, they probably wouldn't.A much more tactful and less blatantly ignorant way of defending your stance would be to argue that Top Cut is such a competitive scenario already that it makes sense there would be an allowance of stopwatches/timers.
Is it impossible? I suppose not. But its like being offended when I say someone with a limp is not likely to make the football team. They have an obvious disadvantage, so they probably are much less likely to make it.
Quote from: Drrek on April 26, 2015, 09:43:44 PMIs it impossible? I suppose not. But its like being offended when I say someone with a limp is not likely to make the football team. They have an obvious disadvantage, so they probably are much less likely to make it.Just like a man who is deaf or only has one arm is not likely to be a Major League baseball player...
I have a learning disability and I topped last year. Not trying to brag just saying its possible.
Quote from: TheHobbit on April 26, 2015, 11:33:30 PMI have a learning disability and I topped last year. Not trying to brag just saying its possible.Did your learning disability prevent you from being able to complete your turns in a reasonable time-frame?
Well they aren't, ...
Quote from: Drrek on April 26, 2015, 11:22:53 PMWell they aren't, ...What is your evidence to support such a claim? Since you are talking "likelihood," I assume that mathematical probability would be a good measure. What is the percentage of able-bodied people that started playing baseball and ended up in the Major Leagues? Then, comparatively, what is the percentage of one-armed people who started playing baseball and ended up in the Major Leagues?
I'm genuinely curious what you are trying to learn or gain from this conversation
But like, I have no idea how this supports what you claim is your goal.
I realize that a lot of you just don't like me, which is why I try not to post as much as I used to, but why not call him out for his claims as well?
\Since there is no way that Drrek has any actual evidence, I was offering even a general mathematical approach. You cannot claim that a one-armed baseball player is not likely to make the Major Leagues if only one has tried and made it. Even if there were a hundred that tried and only one made it, that would still be a better percentage of success than able-bodied players that made it to the Major Leagues.