Author Topic: Another Gates of Hell Combo  (Read 8440 times)

Offline Sean

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Another Gates of Hell Combo
« on: August 03, 2009, 01:35:30 PM »
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Gates of Hell + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon = Fun
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline LukeSnyder

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2009, 01:38:07 PM »
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Good find! I imagine that combo will become pretty much staple in many decks.

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2009, 01:46:28 PM »
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Buhrokeeeeeeen!
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Offline Sean

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2009, 01:47:17 PM »
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Buhrokeeeeeeen!
Nah, it doesn't work against initiative heroes.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2009, 01:49:27 PM »
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That, Ignore, CTB, and pre-block bombing are like the only ways to stop it. It's about as close to broken as anything nowadyas. ::)
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Offline LukeSnyder

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 01:50:47 PM »
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My favorite part about this combo is that the two demons sit at the bottom of your deck safely when you aren't blocking :D

Offline Korunks

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2009, 01:52:30 PM »
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So when the new WS gets offed he and his partner go to the bottom of the deck? Hrmm.
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Offline Gohanick

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 01:53:20 PM »
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Im confused.

How is a 3/7 combo that makes you discard a card from your hand broken?

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 01:53:36 PM »
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How is it broken if it requires the demon to be discarded to go back to the bottom, meaning that any Hero(es) with total strength <7 or total toughness <4 can get initiative to play, and you can always discard to stop TD?

Offline Hanno102

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 01:55:26 PM »
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This works so much better if you have holy of holies and crown of thorns active.  Though, I still wouldn't really call it broken as it is pretty easy to stop with the right characters / territory class enhancements.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.

EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 01:58:38 PM »
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This isn't broken at all. In fact, this might be one of the least broken things I've seen.

Offline LukeSnyder

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 02:01:36 PM »
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.

EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?

Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...

Offline Lawfuldog

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2009, 02:03:17 PM »
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I like how everyone is making all of these combos with Gates of Hell, I'm fairly certain all of my Type-2 decks have Three Nails in them.  :P
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Offline Sean

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 02:05:43 PM »
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Crown of Thorns would kill Trembling Demon before he would be in battle.  CoT would not help.  And I agree that this isn't broken at all.  Its just a fun way to recur Trembling Demon.

Quote
makes you discard a card from your hand broken?
Who's discarding a card from hand?
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2009, 02:07:38 PM »
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There's much, much more broken things to do with Wandering Spirit and Gates of Hell for sure.

Offline Hanno102

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 02:28:35 PM »
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.

EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?

Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...

Exactly.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 03:04:37 PM »
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.

EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?

Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...

Exactly.
Incorrect.  The demon pulled from the bottom goes into territory.  Once in territory he is subject to Crown of Thorns => back to bottom of deck because of Wandering Spirit.  Congratulations, you just sent your demon on a field trip.
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline Hanno102

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 03:08:40 PM »
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From the Reg:

Unless stated otherwise, characters in play with toughness  (*/0) or less during battle are not immediately discarded.

Yes, it does work.
*~* Philmont Graduate, Class of 2005 *~*

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 03:14:38 PM »
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What's fun is to NOT have holy of holies active. Go in with wandering+trembling demon. If they don't have initiative, they'll discard. Then, die, go on the bottom, put them in territory by discarding them off the bottom, and then discard GOH to add them to battle again. Ah... so nice. Die again and use it one more turn, if you can get to the bottom of your deck. Add in the ls who lets a character enter battle if placed in a site and do another nasty thing, all without letting them get initiative and wiping out a lot of enhancements.
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Offline LukeSnyder

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 03:15:39 PM »
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.

EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?

Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...

Exactly.
Incorrect.  The demon pulled from the bottom goes into territory.  Once in territory he is subject to Crown of Thorns => back to bottom of deck because of Wandering Spirit.  Congratulations, you just sent your demon on a field trip.

From the Reg:

Unless stated otherwise, characters in play with toughness  (*/0) or less during battle are not immediately discarded.

Yes, it does work.

I believe Hanno is correct. The important part isn't where the character of (*/0) is, but WHEN he's (*/0). Since the whole thing takes place during the battle phase, he doesn't immediately get discarded. It makes sense if you think about how hunger and plague of flies work. The characters in territory are discarded AFTER the battle.

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 03:23:52 PM »
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Oh, yay! I think you guys might be right there.

What's fun is to NOT have holy of holies active. Go in with wandering+trembling demon. If they don't have initiative, they'll discard. Then, die, go on the bottom, put them in territory by discarding them off the bottom, and then discard GOH to add them to battle again. Ah... so nice. Die again and use it one more turn, if you can get to the bottom of your deck. Add in the ls who lets a character enter battle if placed in a site and do another nasty thing, all without letting them get initiative and wiping out a lot of enhancements.
If that even works, it isn't worth it.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2009, 03:25:48 PM »
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I stand corrected.  I didn't know it was for the battle phase, just thought it was the field of battle.
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline LukeSnyder

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2009, 03:28:10 PM »
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I stand corrected.  I didn't know it was for the battle phase, just thought it was the field of battle.

Yeah, thats what I thought at first blush myself. Now all you need for this combo is a temple to pop HoH in, and activate your crown of thorns. THAT combo is nearly impossible to get around :D But it takes a lot of cards to get out completely, so its not broken.

Offline Sean

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2009, 03:29:49 PM »
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Quote
But it takes a lot of cards to get out completely
Easy to do with drawing and searching.  Still not broken though.
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2009, 03:30:05 PM »
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Anyone combo that requires you to pray that your opponent's hero has more than 4 strength is not broken.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2009, 03:32:16 PM »
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Only a Hero with strength of 1 would hurt the combo.  But toughness also factors in.  The block has 3 strength so any Hero with 3 or less toughness would also get initiative to play.
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline LukeSnyder

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2009, 03:35:19 PM »
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Anyone combo that requires you to pray that your opponent's hero has more than 4 strength is not broken.

well, this is infinitely repeatable with no cost and CNB, so its on the verge of brokenness...
 
Quote
But it takes a lot of cards to get out completely
Easy to do with drawing and searching.  Still not broken though.

Especially in T2. I would like to see a defense built around this. It could actually be pretty devastating. And if they use initiative heros, just block with a lone trembling demon. You can torment/7sons them if they all get used up.


Offline lightningninja

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2009, 03:35:25 PM »
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I must say it's a cool combo though. I'll definitely consider throwing this into my gates of hell deck.  ;D
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Offline Hanno102

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2009, 09:37:30 PM »
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Yeah, its really not broken.  A pain to deal with agreed, but there are still plenty of counters, not the least of which is merely shuffling your opponent's deck.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2009, 11:43:16 PM »
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it's also easily stopped by playing a good enhancement via Jacob or ET before the block actually happens. And you can't have up darius's decree because your artifact slots are already full.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2009, 01:24:09 AM »
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Wandering Spirit - Reveal the bottom card of deck. If it is a demon, put it in your territory. May band to a generic demon. If your demon is discarded, place it beneath deck instead. Cannot be negated.

I'm not sure that this infinite combo would work.  It says to put "your demon" in the singular beneath your deck.  In which case you would have to choose between "Wandering Spirit" and "Trembling Demon".

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2009, 01:25:12 AM »
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That's simply not remotely the correct way to read that card.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2009, 01:41:51 AM »
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Yeah, its really not broken.  A pain to deal with agreed, but there are still plenty of counters, not the least of which is merely shuffling your opponent's deck.

Not really, once the demons die and go under, you can go ahead and just spam gates to pull them back out before the opponent can shuffle your deck.

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2009, 09:33:25 AM »
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If you have Crown of Thorns active though, you have to wait until the battle phase to take TD out or he'll die. Mayhem could temporarily screw up this combo for sure.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2009, 04:01:55 PM »
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Seven wicked spirits + Kotw combined with this anyone? ;)
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Offline redemptioncousin

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 12:39:03 PM »
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You could even add the other new demon and gomer (for one block) in addition to KoT... that's a pretty big FBN battle that gets to put a card on the bottom...
Gates of Hell is by far the best card in the game.  No questions asked.

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Another Gates of Hell Combo
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2009, 03:32:45 PM »
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Yeah, you can do gomer+wandering spirit+spirit of temptation+twelve fingered giant/Kot.
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