Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Strategies and Combos => Topic started by: Sean on August 03, 2009, 01:35:30 PM
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Gates of Hell + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon = Fun
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Good find! I imagine that combo will become pretty much staple in many decks.
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Buhrokeeeeeeen!
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Buhrokeeeeeeen!
Nah, it doesn't work against initiative heroes.
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That, Ignore, CTB, and pre-block bombing are like the only ways to stop it. It's about as close to broken as anything nowadyas. ::)
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My favorite part about this combo is that the two demons sit at the bottom of your deck safely when you aren't blocking :D
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So when the new WS gets offed he and his partner go to the bottom of the deck? Hrmm.
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Im confused.
How is a 3/7 combo that makes you discard a card from your hand broken?
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How is it broken if it requires the demon to be discarded to go back to the bottom, meaning that any Hero(es) with total strength <7 or total toughness <4 can get initiative to play, and you can always discard to stop TD?
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This works so much better if you have holy of holies and crown of thorns active. Though, I still wouldn't really call it broken as it is pretty easy to stop with the right characters / territory class enhancements.
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.
EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?
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This isn't broken at all. In fact, this might be one of the least broken things I've seen.
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.
EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?
Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...
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I like how everyone is making all of these combos with Gates of Hell, I'm fairly certain all of my Type-2 decks have Three Nails in them. :P
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Crown of Thorns would kill Trembling Demon before he would be in battle. CoT would not help. And I agree that this isn't broken at all. Its just a fun way to recur Trembling Demon.
makes you discard a card from your hand broken?
Who's discarding a card from hand?
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There's much, much more broken things to do with Wandering Spirit and Gates of Hell for sure.
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.
EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?
Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...
Exactly.
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.
EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?
Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...
Exactly.
Incorrect. The demon pulled from the bottom goes into territory. Once in territory he is subject to Crown of Thorns => back to bottom of deck because of Wandering Spirit. Congratulations, you just sent your demon on a field trip.
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From the Reg:
Unless stated otherwise, characters in play with toughness (*/0) or less during battle are not immediately discarded.
Yes, it does work.
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What's fun is to NOT have holy of holies active. Go in with wandering+trembling demon. If they don't have initiative, they'll discard. Then, die, go on the bottom, put them in territory by discarding them off the bottom, and then discard GOH to add them to battle again. Ah... so nice. Die again and use it one more turn, if you can get to the bottom of your deck. Add in the ls who lets a character enter battle if placed in a site and do another nasty thing, all without letting them get initiative and wiping out a lot of enhancements.
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I thought it was assumed that Holy of Holies was up. You could also activate something like Elijah's Mantle and/or Covenant of Salt to make things easier.
EDIT: Crown of thorns would deadify TD, wouldn't it?
Not if you pull him off the bottom during battle with wandering spirit...
Exactly.
Incorrect. The demon pulled from the bottom goes into territory. Once in territory he is subject to Crown of Thorns => back to bottom of deck because of Wandering Spirit. Congratulations, you just sent your demon on a field trip.
From the Reg:
Unless stated otherwise, characters in play with toughness (*/0) or less during battle are not immediately discarded.
Yes, it does work.
I believe Hanno is correct. The important part isn't where the character of (*/0) is, but WHEN he's (*/0). Since the whole thing takes place during the battle phase, he doesn't immediately get discarded. It makes sense if you think about how hunger and plague of flies work. The characters in territory are discarded AFTER the battle.
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Oh, yay! I think you guys might be right there.
What's fun is to NOT have holy of holies active. Go in with wandering+trembling demon. If they don't have initiative, they'll discard. Then, die, go on the bottom, put them in territory by discarding them off the bottom, and then discard GOH to add them to battle again. Ah... so nice. Die again and use it one more turn, if you can get to the bottom of your deck. Add in the ls who lets a character enter battle if placed in a site and do another nasty thing, all without letting them get initiative and wiping out a lot of enhancements.
If that even works, it isn't worth it.
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I stand corrected. I didn't know it was for the battle phase, just thought it was the field of battle.
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I stand corrected. I didn't know it was for the battle phase, just thought it was the field of battle.
Yeah, thats what I thought at first blush myself. Now all you need for this combo is a temple to pop HoH in, and activate your crown of thorns. THAT combo is nearly impossible to get around :D But it takes a lot of cards to get out completely, so its not broken.
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But it takes a lot of cards to get out completely
Easy to do with drawing and searching. Still not broken though.
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Anyone combo that requires you to pray that your opponent's hero has more than 4 strength is not broken.
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Only a Hero with strength of 1 would hurt the combo. But toughness also factors in. The block has 3 strength so any Hero with 3 or less toughness would also get initiative to play.
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Anyone combo that requires you to pray that your opponent's hero has more than 4 strength is not broken.
well, this is infinitely repeatable with no cost and CNB, so its on the verge of brokenness...
But it takes a lot of cards to get out completely
Easy to do with drawing and searching. Still not broken though.
Especially in T2. I would like to see a defense built around this. It could actually be pretty devastating. And if they use initiative heros, just block with a lone trembling demon. You can torment/7sons them if they all get used up.
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I must say it's a cool combo though. I'll definitely consider throwing this into my gates of hell deck. ;D
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Yeah, its really not broken. A pain to deal with agreed, but there are still plenty of counters, not the least of which is merely shuffling your opponent's deck.
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it's also easily stopped by playing a good enhancement via Jacob or ET before the block actually happens. And you can't have up darius's decree because your artifact slots are already full.
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Wandering Spirit - Reveal the bottom card of deck. If it is a demon, put it in your territory. May band to a generic demon. If your demon is discarded, place it beneath deck instead. Cannot be negated.
I'm not sure that this infinite combo would work. It says to put "your demon" in the singular beneath your deck. In which case you would have to choose between "Wandering Spirit" and "Trembling Demon".
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That's simply not remotely the correct way to read that card.
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Yeah, its really not broken. A pain to deal with agreed, but there are still plenty of counters, not the least of which is merely shuffling your opponent's deck.
Not really, once the demons die and go under, you can go ahead and just spam gates to pull them back out before the opponent can shuffle your deck.
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If you have Crown of Thorns active though, you have to wait until the battle phase to take TD out or he'll die. Mayhem could temporarily screw up this combo for sure.
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Seven wicked spirits + Kotw combined with this anyone? ;)
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You could even add the other new demon and gomer (for one block) in addition to KoT... that's a pretty big FBN battle that gets to put a card on the bottom...
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Yeah, you can do gomer+wandering spirit+spirit of temptation+twelve fingered giant/Kot.