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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: adotson85 on July 09, 2009, 09:19:06 PM

Title: Zero Toughness
Post by: adotson85 on July 09, 2009, 09:19:06 PM
If a character reaches */0 while in battle is he automatically discarded or is he only discarded if the card specifically says to discard him?  Hunger for example.

Hunger: All Heroes of one opponent decrease 6/6 for remainder of turn. If result is */0 or less, discard Hero. • Play As: All Heroes of one opponent decrease 6/6 for remainder of turn. Heroes of other players are uneffected. If result is */0 or less, discard Hero.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: lightningninja on July 09, 2009, 09:21:31 PM
He is only discarded at the end of the phase. Even with hunger, he will not die till he reaches territory and the battle is over. The end is just a clarification, it's not an instant ability. Or at least that's what some guy named Bryon told me...  ::)
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on July 09, 2009, 09:30:10 PM
+1 with ninjaboy, but the card is confusing.  The end is clarifying only.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: The Warrior on July 09, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
 +1 so during battle a player could be (example)-3/1?)
that would be a interesting Character (example -1/-1)
they did it with Samsons Sacrifice
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: adotson85 on July 10, 2009, 01:42:15 AM
So why does the errata not say to discard the */0 character after battle?  It still just says discard hero.  Other cards that say discard a hero, coliseum lions for example, discard the hero on the spot.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: SirNobody on July 10, 2009, 02:08:02 AM
Hey,

So why does the errata not say to discard the */0 character after battle?  It still just says discard hero.  Other cards that say discard a hero, coliseum lions for example, discard the hero on the spot.

When play as is given to cards it is usually for a specific purpose.  So if a card has two different things in it's ability that merit play as often one will be addressed and the other isn't.  This would be one of those cases.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: lightningninja on July 10, 2009, 03:21:59 AM
Prince of this world is another. He says "only a rescue of two or more heroes can be successful," but that's just clarification. You can play aotl with a lone her and still rescue the ls.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 10, 2009, 12:20:57 PM
So why does the errata not say to discard the */0 character after battle?  It still just says discard hero.  Other cards that say discard a hero, coliseum lions for example, discard the hero on the spot.

The confusing part about how to word a "Play As" or "Errata" is not to confuse parts of the ability. Hunger would immediately discard heroes outside of battle (as the SA implies). Ultimately, any clarifying text should be read with the rulebook still in mind. The rulebook specifically states that characters in battle can have a toughness below zero.

Hunger does not have a "discard" ability, it has a "decrease" ability. The discard is merely a "game effect." Coliseum Lions, on the other hand, is a "discard" ability, so the rules are different.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 10, 2009, 06:14:37 PM
I agree with what's already been stated. Basically, all heroes in the territory would be immediately discarded. However, since the rulebook states that if a character reaches toughness of zero in battle, they are not immediately discarded, then they would wait until returning to the territory to be discarded, provided they survive the battle at all.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on August 15, 2009, 10:58:38 PM
So why does the errata not say to discard the */0 character after battle?  It still just says discard hero.  Other cards that say discard a hero, coliseum lions for example, discard the hero on the spot.

The confusing part about how to word a "Play As" or "Errata" is not to confuse parts of the ability. Hunger would immediately discard heroes outside of battle (as the SA implies). Ultimately, any clarifying text should be read with the rulebook still in mind. The rulebook specifically states that characters in battle can have a toughness below zero.

Hunger does not have a "discard" ability, it has a "decrease" ability. The discard is merely a "game effect." Coliseum Lions, on the other hand, is a "discard" ability, so the rules are different.

Does this mean that if someone is protected from discard abilities on evil cards, they can still be discarded by Hunger?
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 16, 2009, 12:10:21 AM
I would say you are correct. Since the ruling has been that the last sentence is "clarifying text," it is not a SA. Therefore, Hunger has no "discard abilities."
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 16, 2009, 12:11:33 AM
They'd be discarded by game rule, not Hunger, so that'd be allowed.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 12:13:41 AM
This is why I love decreases.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: SirNobody on August 16, 2009, 02:02:44 AM
Hey,

For the record, characters in a territory that are decreased to */0 or less during battle are not discarded immediately.  All characters (in battle or not in battle) that are decreased to */0 or less during battle remain in play until battle resolution and are discarded during battle resolution if they still have 0 or less toughness during battle resolution.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: FresnoRedemption on August 16, 2009, 02:26:40 AM
Hey,

For the record, characters in a territory that are decreased to */0 or less during battle are not discarded immediately.  All characters (in battle or not in battle) that are decreased to */0 or less during battle remain in play until battle resolution and are discarded during battle resolution if they still have 0 or less toughness during battle resolution.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Is this a recent ruling? I thought in the rulebook or REG it stated that characters not in battle are discarded immediately if their toughness reaches 0.
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: christiangamer25 on August 16, 2009, 02:31:32 AM
nope tim is right aka why my current defense is so evil mwahaha
Title: Re: Zero Toughness
Post by: SirNobody on August 16, 2009, 02:37:19 AM
Hey,

Is this a recent ruling? I thought in the rulebook or REG it stated that characters not in battle are discarded immediately if their toughness reaches 0.

Don't think so.  I'm pretty sure that's the way it's been since before the last printing of the rulebook.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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