Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: garfield07 on June 12, 2009, 09:13:04 PM
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Zaccheus's ability doesn't state about if your able to add the searched Fortress to hand or territory.
Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card. Shuffle draw pile.
So what do you do with the Fortress, add it to hand or put it in your territory?
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Zaccheus (Play As):
Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card and put it in play.
So it goes in your territory. (I'm glad I actually looked that up, because I would have said it went to hand. :D)
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So it goes in your territory. (I'm glad I actually looked that up, because I would have said it went to hand. :D)
It passes through your hand... ;)
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It goes to PLAY?!?! :O News to me.
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Same here! That's exciting! :o
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Wow, Zac puts the Fort in play. That's new. The default for a search ability is to put the card in hand, not in play. That's more of an errata than a "play as" since it changes the way the card works. Hooray for a more powerful Zaccheus!
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That cannot be correct. A card that does not specify to place in play goes to hand.
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...unless specified otherwise. He has a play as. That overrides the previous ability.
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If the Fortress's go directly to play (territory) then I am sure glad I tweaked my deck.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=16078.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=16078.0)
You can see for yourself on what I did.
Also I forgot to ask, would Zaccheus be a judge?
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Zaccheus is not a judge - Judges were rulers of Israel between Joshua and the Kings.
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...unless specified otherwise. He has a play as. That overrides the previous ability.
Play As is supposed to clarify the ability with correct language and syntax. Putting the card in play - and "overriding" the old ability - is a change, and would be an errata.
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Is this an RTS mistake then?
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That cannot be correct. A card that does not specify to place in play goes to hand.
From the REG:
Zaccheus
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 5 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card. Shuffle draw pile. • Play As: Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card and put it in play. •
Who wrote the "Play As"?????
The card just says to search for it. It would go to hand by default because it's not the Prep phase (much to my personal chagrin)
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a definite mistake
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So....at this point the Tourney Host is obligated to follow the REG..???
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Hey,
We all "know" the rule that if a search card doesn't say what to do with the card you searched for it goes to your hand. But can anyone point me to where in the REG/Rulebook it says that?
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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I looked a while ago, and the closest thing there was the quote that YMT found about banding from the draw pile. I believe every search card has an ability or Play As with a given destination, including Zaccheus.
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We all "know" the rule ....
::)
Well said.
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Hey,
I looked a while ago, and the closest thing there was the quote that YMT found about banding from the draw pile. I believe every search card has an ability or Play As with a given destination, including Zaccheus.
Huh, I didn't realize that ET, Lost Coin Found, Spiritual Protection, etc had received play as. I did find one search card that doesn't give a destination in the play as: Transfiguration.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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So would the Fortress go to my hand or territory with Zacc's ability?
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The current ruling for "may" special abilities says that the "may" applies to all parts of the same sentence. So, you may search for a fortress, and then you may put it in play. It's up to you if you want to keep it in your hand.
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All right, thanks for the replies...
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We all "know" the rule that if a search card doesn't say what to do with the card you searched for it goes to your hand. But can anyone point me to where in the REG/Rulebook it says that?
What would be the other logical default?
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What would be the other logical default?
Put it back.
After the new set is released, some of us will want to search our deck just so that we can look at the shiny cards. They bring happiness.
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We all "know" the rule that if a search card doesn't say what to do with the card you searched for it goes to your hand. But can anyone point me to where in the REG/Rulebook it says that?
What would be the other logical default?
The current ruling for "may" special abilities says that the "may" applies to all parts of the same sentence. So, you may search for a fortress, and then you may put it in play. It's up to you if you want to keep it in your hand.
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That would not be a default, though. Zaccheus' ability gives you the option to put it into play, but I think what is being sought is a definitive clarification that "search" abilities allow you to take the card out of your draw pile and put it into your hand as a default. "Reveal" came out later as a SA that "searches" without putting the card into your hand. Since "search" and "reveal" are distinct in our minds now, we have automatically set defaults that are not stated in the REG or rulebook. I think for the sake of newer players that such a clarification might be helpful. The less we take for granted the better when it comes to "big picture" words like "search." Time was already given to include the fact you are supposed to shuffle your deck after searching, even though some people may see that as an obvious default. Not all of us perceive ideas the same way. Clearer is better, if time permits.
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when you seach for a card it goes to your hand unless stated otherwise(aka in play)
when you play a card it comes from your hand .
what about cards like false priest? Is that the one that says "search for a card with false in your discard and play it" does a card like this play from the discard pile or from your hand?
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when you seach for a card it goes to your hand unless stated otherwise(aka in play)
when you play a card it comes from your hand .
what about cards like false priest? Is that the one that says "search for a card with false in your discard and play it" does a card like this play from the discard pile or from your hand?
Well, unless you're using the Force, you will use your hand to get it from the discard pile. As to whether it was actually in your "Hand" is academic. Like playing FA when your opponent rescues a Soul. Just cutting out the middle man.
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Well, unless you're using the Force, you will use your hand to get it from the discard pile.
I use my metal claw, personally. But I understand most of you non-cyborgs use your hands.
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Hey,
As to whether it was actually in your "Hand" is academic.
I disagree. I think it is very, very significant whether or not it goes to your "Hand." Consider a hypothetical artifact with the ability, "Protect all Old Testament enhancements in your hand from being played." Now if I play Pride of Simon while that is active and wish to play Joseph in Prison from my discard pile, it is of central importance whether or not Joseph in Prison is searched added to hand and played from hand or searched and played from discard pile. If it is played from hand, it isn't because the artifact protects it from being played, if it is played from the discard pile directly it is played.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Hey,
As to whether it was actually in your "Hand" is academic.
I disagree. I think it is very, very significant whether or not it goes to your "Hand." Consider a hypothetical artifact with the ability, "Protect all Old Testament enhancements in your hand from being played." Now if I play Pride of Simon while that is active and wish to play Joseph in Prison from my discard pile, it is of central importance whether or not Joseph in Prison is searched added to hand and played from hand or searched and played from discard pile. If it is played from hand, it isn't because the artifact protects it from being played, if it is played from the discard pile directly it is played.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Yeah, but I didn't want to type all that.
So, thank you for being academic!
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Well regardless weather or not if it goes to my hand or territory, still I won't be able to activate it till my next turn.
So for that fact, I don't really see any difference besides the Fortress's would be more safer in my hand then in territory.
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The fortress' ability activates as soon as it enters play.
I think you are confusing the fact that characters can only be removed/added to fortresses during your Preparation Phase.
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That is what I meant to say. I can't really use the Fortress till my next turn. The Fortress I am referring to is Judge's Seat.
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The fortress' ability activates as soon as it enters play.
I think you are confusing the fact that characters can only be removed/added to fortresses during your Preparation Phase.
Well, you can lay a Fortress down in your discard phase, but it wont become active until next turn, yes?
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It becomes active the moment you put it in play.
The thing about usefulness that I think might be causing the confusion, is that most of the time you can only put things INTO Forts and Sites during your prep phase. But other abilities like protection begin working immediately.
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Ya I know, but I was meaning that I'd have to wait for my next turn to activate Judge's Seat since I have to have a Judge to put in the Fortress in the first place and that can only be done when you don't have a hero in battle. So I'd have to wait till Zacc comes back out of battle then if I have a hero to put in the site I could but then I'd have to wait for my next turn to use the ability.
So it might just be worth while to keep the Fortress in hand till my next turn in case if my opponent has a site destroyer card. I put the gold hero 4/4 Samuel into this deck so I could use him to discard my opponents evil characters of 4/4 or greater.
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We agree. We were just generalizing fortress rules, since some fortresses do not require the garrisoning of characters.
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We agree. We were just generalizing fortress rules, since some fortresses do not require the garrisoning of characters.
7 points for a great use of "garrisoning." -0.4 points for not somehow sticking "keillor" in there too.
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-0.4 points for not somehow sticking "keillor" in there too.
I had to look that one up, since I had no idea what you were talking about. I have never heard of the guy, but I am guessing that he doesn't use orange since he is from Minnesota.
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The "play as" on Zaccheus is not correct. The word "play" should read "hand".
As will be the case on the several cards in the next set that search for cards and do not tell a destination, the searched card goes to hand.
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Alright, but once after battle, the Fortress should be able to go to territory right?
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Correct. However, as you stated before, you will not be able to add any characters to the fortess (i.e. Judges Seat).
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darn... no gathering zacheus to a tgt character and ignore.... wait, what am i saying. THANK YOU!!!!!