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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 14, 2009, 02:44:08 PM

Title: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 14, 2009, 02:44:08 PM
How exactly does this SA work?

Woman of Wisdom
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: White • Ability: 7 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard Sheba. Regardless of rescue attempt outcome, no more than one Hero is discarded. Blocker chooses the Hero. • Play As: Discard one Sheba in play. Regardless of rescue attempt outcome, no more than one Hero is discarded. Blocker chooses the Hero. • Identifiers: OT Female Human • Verse: II Samuel 20:16 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)

Does this mean that if I RA with WoW, and my opponent plays wrath... only one hero is discarded?
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 14, 2009, 02:46:45 PM
I would say yes that seems like the way this would be played...it says "regardless of battle outcome" so only one hero regardless of whether WoS was played or not would be discarded.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 14, 2009, 02:48:47 PM
What does grapes have to do with this card? I meant Wrath of Satan.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Colin Michael on August 14, 2009, 02:48:58 PM
Overpowered combo removed.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: The Warrior on August 14, 2009, 02:50:09 PM
when u said wrath i could be WoS or GoW plz specify next time
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Smokey on August 14, 2009, 02:57:30 PM
when u said wrath i could be WoS or GoW plz specify next time

Please use common sense next time, and he won't have to.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Colin Michael on August 14, 2009, 02:59:54 PM
I can't believe that Lambo and I just broke the game with an unknown card from Kings! YAY!
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 14, 2009, 03:00:17 PM
I can't believe that Lambo and I just broke the game with an unknown card from Kings! YAY!

Mwahahahaha.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 15, 2009, 09:58:30 PM
Double post to say (A) said broken combo above doesnt work.  :'( and (B) I'm still waiting for an official explaination about how this hero works... Very confusing ability.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Master KChief on August 15, 2009, 10:17:22 PM
i always understood it to mean what it says...no more than one hero in battle is discarded. usually helpful if you have a huge banding chain in battle. i just didnt think the special ability applied to other heros outside of battle in this context.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 15, 2009, 10:19:15 PM
But, the "regardless of battle outcome" seems like the ability only activates after battle. However, there is a huge different between when it activates.

1) WoW activates at the end of battle. Wrath "kills" all the heros and sends them out of battle, but WoW activates and only one is discarded. Battle is still lost.
2) WoW activates instantly. Wrath only kills one hero in battle, battle is still going.

Which is it?
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: sk on August 15, 2009, 11:28:33 PM
"Regardless of rescue attempt outcome, no more than one Hero is discarded. Blocker chooses the Hero."

This reminds me of the SA of Ark of the Covenant.  That "activates" at the end of the battle, right?  Or does it target at the beginning?  What about 30 Pieces of Silver?

Since WoW's ability is a protect, and intends to protect all heroes (except one), it seems to me that it would activate at the end, once it knows what characters are/have been in play.  I'm not sure how this would help protect heroes being discarded one-by-one by evil SA's, though, so perhaps they would be protected as soon as she enters battle?  But if she enters mid-battle, would that mean she heals the previously discarded characters?  I think a new play-as is in order.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: soul seeker on August 15, 2009, 11:30:27 PM
It seems to me that she is treated as a heal card.  Whether a Wrath of Satan is played or a one by one discard.  She simply heals one hero (chosen by the opponent) at the end of the battle phase.


But what do I know, I'm only a noob.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 15, 2009, 11:52:36 PM
"Regardless of rescue attempt outcome, no more than one Hero is discarded. Blocker chooses the Hero."

This reminds me of the SA of Ark of the Covenant.  That "activates" at the end of the battle, right?  Or does it target at the beginning?  What about 30 Pieces of Silver?

My point exactly. The wording is just like Ark, but does not say After Battle... so which is it?  ???

Quote
Since WoW's ability is a protect, and intends to protect all heroes (except one), it seems to me that it would activate at the end, once it knows what characters are/have been in play.  I'm not sure how this would help protect heroes being discarded one-by-one by evil SA's, though, so perhaps they would be protected as soon as she enters battle?  But if she enters mid-battle, would that mean she heals the previously discarded characters?  I think a new play-as is in order.

Is it really a protect? Darius's Decree stops a game action without being a prevent or a protect. WoW says neither protect or prevent.

I see it less as a protect, which simply stops effects from happening to the protected targets, and instead sets a temporary rule in battle where only one hero may be discarded. Basicly when WoW enters, it says Ok... only one hero may be discarded in this battle.

Key difference here is that a "regardless of protection" would bypass her as you describe, but the SA sounds like even a regardless of protection ability would STILL kill just one hero at the most.

I'd really like to get some playtesters / Rob in here, in addition to everyone elses opinions. The issue here is that if we do give it a play as... we need to decide what the card does in the first place.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 16, 2009, 12:26:52 AM
I agree that a new "Play As" is required.

"Regardless of RA outcome" is the trigger for the remaining ability. As of now, a RA would be necessary. The term "outcome" would move the trigger to Battle Resolution (see rulebook p.29). Wrath of Satan would have already completed by that point and has not been negated, so it is unaffected. The only effect that the trigger can now try to change is what happens during Battle Resolution, namely the discarding of losing heroes.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 12:50:18 AM
So what you are saying is that... discarding by SA still happens, but WoW only works if my heroes loose the battle by the numbers?

Epic weaksauce if that is true.  :D
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: SirNobody on August 16, 2009, 01:46:54 AM
Hey,

This reminds me of the SA of Ark of the Covenant.  That "activates" at the end of the battle, right?

Penny for the smart lady. ... er smart lad.

The "Regardless of Rescue Attempt outcome" phrase indicates that the ability applies during battle resolution (the same way that Ark of the Covenant applies during battle resolution).  So if her ability is active only one hero can be discarded during battle resolution.

So we can play her as "Discard Sheba.  All heroes except one (blocker chooses the one) are protected from discard during battle resolution".

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 01:54:44 AM
Now, if Wrath discarded all my heroes in battle, wouldnt that immediately shift it into the battle resolution, and activate her ability... saving all but one hero?
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2009, 03:59:58 AM
No, it'd be stupid OP if it did that since you can't play Negates during battle resolution.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: SirNobody on August 16, 2009, 04:10:17 AM
Hey,

Now, if Wrath discarded all my heroes in battle, wouldnt that immediately shift it into the battle resolution, and activate her ability... saving all but one hero?

No...just no.

Actually that is a very common misconception.  I have run across a lot of players that think when one side of battle has no characters left that causes battle resolution to begin, but that is not the case.  Battle resolution begins when both players decide they don't want to do anything else to affect the battle.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 01:37:46 PM
Well if thats how this card is to played, consider it utterly useless.
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 16, 2009, 03:14:30 PM
Kind of like digging through old cards looking for outdated wording that can somehow be manipulated into doing something it was never intended to do.  ;)
Title: Re: Women of Wisdom
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 03:16:48 PM
Kind of like digging through old cards looking for outdated wording that can somehow be manipulated into doing something it was never intended to do.  ;)

:rollin:
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