Author Topic: what to do with TSA? (Read 6280 times)

soul seeker · « **on:** May 22, 2009, 01:51:11 PM »

If The Strong Angel has been captured, and then burial is played on him while Chamber of Angels is out. Where does TSA go? The discard pile or Chamber?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2009, 01:52:56 PM »

If Chamber of Angels says "Silver Brigade Hero" then he is Discarded, but if it says "Angel" then he goes there.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:06:05 PM »

Chamber of Angels:
Set this fortress aside. If holder's angel is being discarded, place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your draw pile.

It should go to Chamber of Angels. However, does it reset to a hero, so it can be put on top of the draw pile?

TimMierz · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:10:28 PM »

Curious, Aggie, very curious indeed. It never hit a pile or hand, so it's still a captured Hero, and therefore the card can't be returned to deck‽ That's ridonkulous.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:31:34 PM »

Winds:
Holder may exchange an angel in battle with an angel in holder's hand, territory, or Chamber of Angels.

It doesn't say hero, so you could wind up with a captured hero in battle? If he gets captured again, is he a captured captured hero?

TimMierz · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:38:15 PM »

Uh... can you say mindblow?

STAMP · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:38:52 PM »

And this one is far better than the other example you proposed, Tim.

Hedgehogman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:25:02 PM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 22, 2009, 02:31:34 PM

Winds:
Holder may exchange an angel in battle with an angel in holder's hand, territory, or Chamber of Angels.

It doesn't say hero, so you could wind up with a captured hero in battle? If he gets captured again, is he a captured captured hero?

I would say that he would become a regular Hero again, after you exchange him.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:55:03 PM »

I say he's a regular hero.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2009, 07:42:50 PM »

I don't know if the exchange is possible at all....

Hedgehogman · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2009, 07:44:58 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 22, 2009, 07:42:50 PM

I don't know if the exchange is possible at all....

Why not? It's an angel, isn't it?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:06:59 PM »

But captured characters aren't supposed to enter battle, are they? You can't bring ZT into battle with Zerubbabel, can you?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:30:02 PM »

The example demonstrated above with winds is trying to supercede the structure of the game or otherwise impossible b/c captured characters are limited as to what their allowed to do. I would rule that the captured hero would not return to chamber due to these restrictions as well.

sk · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2009, 09:03:30 PM »

If a captured hero is not in a Land of Bondage, is it truly 'captured'? Assuming it's a legal play, it seems like moving a character out of an LoB removes their captured status (ie, Ezra).

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2009, 09:09:18 PM »

Captured characters can also be in fortresses (like Raiders Camp). Tartaros can also move captured characters from the LoB.

Tartaros may actually have a precedent for this - there doesn't seem to be any problem exchanging for previously captured demons in Tartaros, so somewhere they must lose their captured status.

Hedgehogman · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:58:25 PM »

Quote from: sk on May 22, 2009, 09:03:30 PM

If a captured hero is not in a Land of Bondage, is it truly 'captured'? Assuming it's a legal play, it seems like moving a character out of an LoB removes their captured status (ie, Ezra).

I would agree. There is quite a bit of precedent for removing captured characters from a LoB. I see no reason why Winds would be any different, since it does not specify "a Hero", but rather "an angel".

The Schaef · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:04:27 PM »

I'm trying to figure out the utility of this. If we assume all of these things to be correct, and the combo to work, the captured Hero would never return to draw pile from Chamber of Angels, and a captured Hero cannot be in battle, so it seems like using it after Burial would lock out the angel forever, and playing Winds would be an automatic loss.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:36:16 PM »

Chamber of Angels isn't a "may" ability, so burying an angel (for whatever reason) would send it there. To me, that part is more "how does this work (in the event it happens)" rather than how useful it is.

How do previously captured demons that get placed in Tartaros lose their captured status?

The Schaef · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:06:17 AM »

I was pretty sure my answer indicated exactly how I thought it worked.

The demons lose their captured status because there are cards that specifically release them from Tartaros.

The alternative possibility is that any time a captured character leaves the Land of Bondage - or a Fortress that holds captured characters - then it just becomes a regular character again. That could very well be the case.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:08:42 AM »

sounds good to me. I love seeing cards that never see play come to life.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:35:42 AM »

Quote

The demons lose their captured status because there are cards that specifically release them from Tartaros.

What about SWS (You may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this Evil Character with any other Evil Character in play or set-aside area)?

Except for the interrupt (which I don't think has any bearing on captured status, but I could be wrong), if the exchange is for a captured demon in Tartaros, this sounds a lot like the Wings/Buried Angel situation.

I think the alternative possibility is the better way to go.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:36:01 AM »

we could just have a bonfire of all the TSA's ever made. that's what we could do with TSA... or we could burn all the Chamber of Angels...

Bryon · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2009, 12:39:37 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 23, 2009, 12:06:17 AM

The alternative possibility is that any time a captured character leaves the Land of Bondage - or a Fortress that holds captured characters - then it just becomes a regular character again.

I think this is correct, with these minor clarifications (obvious to us all, but for the sake of new players,...):
- a captured character that leaves those places due to rescue is obviously a redeemed soul, and not a regular character.
- a captured character that leaves one of those places and goes directly into another of those places is still a captured character.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:38:09 PM »

So what if a demon was converted, then captured, then discarded, then exchanged? (I don't think this is actually possible, but what would happen?

Timothy DS · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:41:10 PM »

if the demon was converted, then captured, then discarded, it would revert to a EC in discard pile and u could exchange him out with, say, seven sons of sceva

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:42:33 PM »

Converting a demon (not possible) would make it an Angel (I assume). Capturing it would make it a captured hero. Discarding it would reset it to a demon (assuming it actually hit the discard pile).

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:43:25 PM »

I meant him being discarded with Chamber up.

Timothy DS · « **Reply #27 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:47:15 PM »

he would revert to an EC when he enters discard pile. CHamber takes the angel into chamber while he is being discarded, not after the deed is done. that means the demon would go in chamber. but after two turns the demon would go on top of deck, and thus revert to an EC again.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #28 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:48:33 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 29, 2009, 07:38:09 PM

So what if a demon was converted, then captured, then discarded, then exchanged?

Timothy DS · « **Reply #29 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:49:50 PM »

like i said the demon would never enter the discard pile because of chamber

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #30 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:51:36 PM »

I meant with Winds, like was tlaked about earlier.

Timothy DS · « **Reply #31 on:** May 29, 2009, 07:53:52 PM »

if it is in chamber, that means it is being treated as an angel. so u could exchange it.

Ironica · « **Reply #32 on:** May 30, 2009, 10:37:44 AM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 29, 2009, 07:42:33 PM

Converting a demon (not possible)

Where is it in the REG? I tried looking for it but have failed. I'm not doubting you. I just want it displayed

.

TimMierz · « **Reply #33 on:** May 30, 2009, 11:09:04 AM »

I can't find it anywhere in the REG, despite the fact that I thought it was the case for many many years.

That being said, every "convert Evil Character to a Hero" card specifies that the convertee must be human, except for Sanctifying Faith. Sanctifying Faith does have a "play as" that adds the "human" restriction to the SA, though.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #34 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:11:08 PM »

Technically, Redemption (Priests) can convert a converted Angel (now a demon) back to an angel.

SirNobody · « **Reply #35 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:37:08 PM »

Hey,

Angelic Rebellion converts a demon to an angel. The default condition for convert abilities is that they have to target a human unless stated otherwise.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

TimMierz · « **Reply #36 on:** May 30, 2009, 05:09:12 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on May 30, 2009, 02:37:08 PM

Angelic Rebellion converts a demon to an angel.

Huh?
"One angel (excluding Michael, Captain of the Host, and Gabriel) "falls" and becomes a Crimson evil character."

Quote from: SirNobody on May 30, 2009, 02:37:08 PM

The default condition for convert abilities is that they have to target a human unless stated otherwise.

Not in the current REG, unless you can find it somewhere.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #37 on:** May 30, 2009, 06:06:23 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on May 30, 2009, 05:09:12 PM

Not in the current REG, unless you can find it somewhere.

Quote from: TimMierz on May 19, 2009, 02:59:41 PM

Tell me where the REG says that ECs with an Ecclesiastes reference are not dipped in butterscotch pudding every time someone says "Snork."

Couldn't resist.

SirNobody · « **Reply #38 on:** May 30, 2009, 06:48:42 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: TimMierz on May 30, 2009, 05:09:12 PM

Quote from: SirNobody on May 30, 2009, 02:37:08 PM
Angelic Rebellion converts a demon to an angel.
Huh?
"One angel (excluding Michael, Captain of the Host, and Gabriel) "falls" and becomes a Crimson evil character."

I don't see what your confused about. The fact that I'm incompetent shouldn't affect your ability to understand the lack of sense in my post

Quote

Quote from: SirNobody on May 30, 2009, 02:37:08 PM
The default condition for convert abilities is that they have to target a human unless stated otherwise.
Not in the current REG, unless you can find it somewhere.

How about:

Quote from: REG

"A convert ability must only target humans unless a target restriction mutually exclusive to being human is specified."

Oh wait you said current REG, never mind.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Sean · « **Reply #39 on:** May 30, 2009, 07:17:11 PM »

Heroes in Potter's Field are treated as discarded. Angels in Chamber should be as well.

Timothy DS · « **Reply #40 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:04:35 PM »

Chamber of Angel's is different because it saves them from discard before the enter the pile. I believe they aren't treated as discarded

soul seeker · « **Reply #41 on:** May 31, 2009, 08:04:25 PM »

you realize a dumb Dungeon of Malchiah on King Zed started all this and I just wanted my TSA back and was trying to figure out a way to do it. Thus, the burial option.

News:

Author Topic: what to do with TSA? (Read 6280 times)

Warrior_Monk

The Schaef

The Schaef

Warrior_Monk

Timothy DS

Timothy DS

Timothy DS

Timothy DS

Ironica

Lamborghini_diablo

Timothy DS