Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: soul seeker on May 22, 2009, 01:51:11 PM
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If The Strong Angel has been captured, and then burial is played on him while Chamber of Angels is out. Where does TSA go? The discard pile or Chamber?
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If Chamber of Angels says "Silver Brigade Hero" then he is Discarded, but if it says "Angel" then he goes there.
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Chamber of Angels:
Set this fortress aside. If holder's angel is being discarded, place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your draw pile.
It should go to Chamber of Angels. However, does it reset to a hero, so it can be put on top of the draw pile?
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Curious, Aggie, very curious indeed. It never hit a pile or hand, so it's still a captured Hero, and therefore the card can't be returned to deck‽ That's ridonkulous.
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Winds:
Holder may exchange an angel in battle with an angel in holder's hand, territory, or Chamber of Angels.
It doesn't say hero, so you could wind up with a captured hero in battle? If he gets captured again, is he a captured captured hero? ;)
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Uh... can you say mindblow?
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And this one is far better than the other example you proposed, Tim. :)
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Winds:
Holder may exchange an angel in battle with an angel in holder's hand, territory, or Chamber of Angels.
It doesn't say hero, so you could wind up with a captured hero in battle? If he gets captured again, is he a captured captured hero? ;)
I would say that he would become a regular Hero again, after you exchange him.
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I say he's a regular hero.
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I don't know if the exchange is possible at all....
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I don't know if the exchange is possible at all....
Why not? It's an angel, isn't it?
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But captured characters aren't supposed to enter battle, are they? You can't bring ZT into battle with Zerubbabel, can you?
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The example demonstrated above with winds is trying to supercede the structure of the game or otherwise impossible b/c captured characters are limited as to what their allowed to do. I would rule that the captured hero would not return to chamber due to these restrictions as well.
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If a captured hero is not in a Land of Bondage, is it truly 'captured'? Assuming it's a legal play, it seems like moving a character out of an LoB removes their captured status (ie, Ezra (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/ezra.htm)).
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Captured characters can also be in fortresses (like Raiders Camp). Tartaros can also move captured characters from the LoB.
Tartaros may actually have a precedent for this - there doesn't seem to be any problem exchanging for previously captured demons in Tartaros, so somewhere they must lose their captured status.
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If a captured hero is not in a Land of Bondage, is it truly 'captured'? Assuming it's a legal play, it seems like moving a character out of an LoB removes their captured status (ie, Ezra (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/ezra.htm)).
I would agree. There is quite a bit of precedent for removing captured characters from a LoB. I see no reason why Winds would be any different, since it does not specify "a Hero", but rather "an angel".
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I'm trying to figure out the utility of this. If we assume all of these things to be correct, and the combo to work, the captured Hero would never return to draw pile from Chamber of Angels, and a captured Hero cannot be in battle, so it seems like using it after Burial would lock out the angel forever, and playing Winds would be an automatic loss.
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Chamber of Angels isn't a "may" ability, so burying an angel (for whatever reason) would send it there. To me, that part is more "how does this work (in the event it happens)" rather than how useful it is.
How do previously captured demons that get placed in Tartaros lose their captured status?
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I was pretty sure my answer indicated exactly how I thought it worked.
The demons lose their captured status because there are cards that specifically release them from Tartaros.
The alternative possibility is that any time a captured character leaves the Land of Bondage - or a Fortress that holds captured characters - then it just becomes a regular character again. That could very well be the case.
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sounds good to me. I love seeing cards that never see play come to life.
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The demons lose their captured status because there are cards that specifically release them from Tartaros.
What about SWS (You may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this Evil Character with any other Evil Character in play or set-aside area)?
Except for the interrupt (which I don't think has any bearing on captured status, but I could be wrong), if the exchange is for a captured demon in Tartaros, this sounds a lot like the Wings/Buried Angel situation.
I think the alternative possibility is the better way to go.
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we could just have a bonfire of all the TSA's ever made. that's what we could do with TSA... or we could burn all the Chamber of Angels...
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The alternative possibility is that any time a captured character leaves the Land of Bondage - or a Fortress that holds captured characters - then it just becomes a regular character again.
I think this is correct, with these minor clarifications (obvious to us all, but for the sake of new players,...):
- a captured character that leaves those places due to rescue is obviously a redeemed soul, and not a regular character.
- a captured character that leaves one of those places and goes directly into another of those places is still a captured character. :)
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So what if a demon was converted, then captured, then discarded, then exchanged? (I don't think this is actually possible, but what would happen?
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if the demon was converted, then captured, then discarded, it would revert to a EC in discard pile and u could exchange him out with, say, seven sons of sceva
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Converting a demon (not possible) would make it an Angel (I assume). Capturing it would make it a captured hero. Discarding it would reset it to a demon (assuming it actually hit the discard pile).
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I meant him being discarded with Chamber up.
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he would revert to an EC when he enters discard pile. CHamber takes the angel into chamber while he is being discarded, not after the deed is done. that means the demon would go in chamber. but after two turns the demon would go on top of deck, and thus revert to an EC again.
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So what if a demon was converted, then captured, then discarded, then exchanged?
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like i said the demon would never enter the discard pile because of chamber
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I meant with Winds (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/winds.htm), like was tlaked about earlier. :P
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if it is in chamber, that means it is being treated as an angel. so u could exchange it.
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Converting a demon (not possible)
Where is it in the REG? I tried looking for it but have failed. I'm not doubting you. I just want it displayed :).
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I can't find it anywhere in the REG, despite the fact that I thought it was the case for many many years.
That being said, every "convert Evil Character to a Hero" card specifies that the convertee must be human, except for Sanctifying Faith. Sanctifying Faith does have a "play as" that adds the "human" restriction to the SA, though.
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Technically, Redemption (Priests) can convert a converted Angel (now a demon) back to an angel.
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Hey,
Angelic Rebellion converts a demon to an angel. The default condition for convert abilities is that they have to target a human unless stated otherwise.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Angelic Rebellion converts a demon to an angel.
Huh?
"One angel (excluding Michael, Captain of the Host, and Gabriel) "falls" and becomes a Crimson evil character."
The default condition for convert abilities is that they have to target a human unless stated otherwise.
Not in the current REG, unless you can find it somewhere.
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Not in the current REG, unless you can find it somewhere.
Tell me where the REG says that ECs with an Ecclesiastes reference are not dipped in butterscotch pudding every time someone says "Snork."
Couldn't resist. ;)
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Hey,
Angelic Rebellion converts a demon to an angel.
Huh?
"One angel (excluding Michael, Captain of the Host, and Gabriel) "falls" and becomes a Crimson evil character."
I don't see what your confused about. The fact that I'm incompetent shouldn't affect your ability to understand the lack of sense in my post :)
The default condition for convert abilities is that they have to target a human unless stated otherwise.
Not in the current REG, unless you can find it somewhere.
How about:
"A convert ability must only target humans unless a target restriction mutually exclusive to being human is specified."
Oh wait you said current REG, never mind.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Heroes in Potter's Field are treated as discarded. Angels in Chamber should be as well.
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Chamber of Angel's is different because it saves them from discard before the enter the pile. I believe they aren't treated as discarded
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you realize a dumb Dungeon of Malchiah on King Zed started all this and I just wanted my TSA back and was trying to figure out a way to do it. Thus, the burial option. :D