Cactus Game Design Message Boards

If i band to my opponent's AUtO with Jacob and exchange with Samuel in my territory, at the end of the battle, does Samuel go to my opponent's territory or mine?

If i have Obby's Caves up in this same situation and before the battle ends my opponent plays Korah's Rebellion, does my exchanged for Samuel go to Obby's Caves instead of being removed?

how is it not "yours" when yours=control+ownership and you own and control Samuel when he is in battle?

Ownership never changes. Unless there were a card printed that specifically transmits ownership (and I don't believe there ever will be) the owner of a card will always be whichever player had that card in their deck at the start of the game.

Perhaps there should be a different term for controlling cards temporarily (such as banding to an opponent's character) and controlling cards where the base control of the card has shifted (such as when you take an Enhancement with Taking Egypt's Wealth). They both use the word "control" but mean something different. Regardless, ownership never changes.

To answer the initial question, exchange abilities change the "loyalty" of a card, so Samuel would go to your opponent's territory and AutO to yours. In the second situation, Samuel is removed normally since you do not own it, and it therefore does not meet the standards for "your."

I would suggest that if there does come a time when we split "control" into its two different game mechanics--permanent and temporary control--that the definition of "your" should change to "permanently control" rather than "own and control." But that's a rules update that does not yet exist.

side question on this, i exchange my ls with yours, then the shuffler LS causes the LS's to be shuffle into the "owners" draw pile... this seems contradictory to your definition of ownership...

Exchanged Lost Souls will still always be shuffled back into the deck they came from originally. How is that a conflict?

You defined ownership as 'loyalty' and loyalty changes with an exchange therefore ownership changes with exchange and hence Sam. gets removed...  just trying to grasp the scope of what "yours", "control", and "own" really mean. I thought:
"own"=When the special ability of a card refers to the owner, it means the player from whose deck the card was drawn. Which Sam. was drawn from my deck.
"control"=You control a character when you are using it. You can control a character that you do not own. This happens when you band to an opponent’s character and use it in battle. You also con­trol a character when your opponent forces you to use a character that you do not own. I controlled Sam. while he was in battle.
"yours"=The possession and control of a card is implied by the use of the word “your”. "your"=ownership+control... I owned and controlled Sam. while in battle...

you said "Samuel is removed normally since you do not own it".... but by definition i did own it... and by example of exchange LS+shuffler LS where exchanged soul goes to the "owners" draw pile, I am the owner of Sam....

I think if that is not what you meant then the definition of "your" should be redefined as what you had said- yours=card you permanently control (when it is in play and not in battle?).

Either I did do that because it's late or you read it wrong because it's late. Let's come back to this on the morrow B)

sounds good

Thank you guys for helping understand and give a clear ruling. I appreciate your attention even if I can be a bit difficult when it comes to my understanding of things. I appreciate it.