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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: joezim007 on September 27, 2011, 12:58:39 PM

Title: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: joezim007 on September 27, 2011, 12:58:39 PM
If an ability says "Return a character to owner's hand," do weapon enhancements go back to the hand too? I heard that they get discarded when a character is shuffled, so I was wondering.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Red Wing on September 27, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
If an ability says "Return a character to owner's hand," do weapon enhancements go back to the hand too? I heard that they get discarded when a character is shuffled, so I was wondering.

From my understanding of the rules, I don't think it would be discarded, but INE.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 27, 2011, 01:36:18 PM
Cards follow their hosts. The weapon would go to hand also.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Chronic Apathy on September 27, 2011, 02:07:21 PM
Cards follow their hosts. The weapon would go to hand also.

Unless this was changed in the last day or so, weapon class enhancements are discarded when their holder leaves play (or set-aside), or becomes a Lost Soul.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Korunks on September 27, 2011, 03:05:43 PM
And this discussion is one of the main reasons I think we should just have cards follow their host as a blanket rule?  What is really the harm if we allow weapons and placed enhancements to follow their host into the deck or hand?  The only exception we would need to have is what to do about captured characters with placed enhancements.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Chronic Apathy on September 27, 2011, 04:09:48 PM
And this discussion is one of the main reasons I think we should just have cards follow their host as a blanket rule?  What is really the harm if we allow weapons and placed enhancements to follow their host into the deck or hand?  The only exception we would need to have is what to do about captured characters with placed enhancements.

I believe the current rule is all placed cards are discarded when a character gets captured. I agree with the blanket rule though.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 27, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
Actually that's not even quite true. The recent discussion was about whether shuffled warriors should have their weapons discarded. Return to hand/top of deck/Narnia abilities are not shuffle abilities and have never done anything other than have the weapon follow.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: christiangamer25 on September 28, 2011, 03:22:27 AM
except weapons have never followed they fall off
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 28, 2011, 04:30:29 AM
Only in the case of shuffle and capture. And even then, the ruling on Shuffle appears to be changing soon and many elders thought it already had.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Bryon on September 28, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on September 28, 2011, 10:13:42 AM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).

Is this true of placed enhancements now, too?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 28, 2011, 11:41:47 AM
That has always been true of placed enhancements.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Bobbert on September 28, 2011, 07:43:39 PM
Actually that's not even quite true. The recent discussion was about whether shuffled warriors should have their weapons discarded. Return to hand/top of deck/Narnia abilities are not shuffle abilities and have never done anything other than have the weapon follow.

Narnia?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Chronic Apathy on September 28, 2011, 07:59:44 PM
He was making a joke.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Prof Underwood on September 28, 2011, 10:47:45 PM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).
I'll confirm this :)
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Korunks on September 29, 2011, 10:06:11 AM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).
I'll confirm this :)

I like this, its nice and simple. Does this apply to placed cards on a character?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 10:10:44 AM
Again, this has ALWAYS been the case for placed cards.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Korunks on September 29, 2011, 01:15:19 PM
I am just verifying :)  Are there any other(besides Weapons being discarded at capture) exceptions in the game to the Placed cards following whatever they are placed on?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 01:29:16 PM
Lost Souls in Sites do not follow their hosts. Idk if it's an exception per se (the souls are neither placed cards nor weapons), but it's similar enough in appearance to warrant the caveat.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Korunks on September 29, 2011, 01:45:55 PM
So a simple "blanket" rule/statement could be.  "Placed cards allows follow their host, unless its a Weapon Class enhancement placed on a Warrior Class character that is being captured, or is a Lost Soul being held in a site."
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 01:55:57 PM
Rather, "Cards follow their hosts, except Lost Souls and Weapons if bearer is being Captured." Neither Weapons nor LS's are "placed cards."
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: The_ARk on September 29, 2011, 02:56:54 PM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).

Do they loose weapons/placed cards when converted? Especially in the case where a hero is only converted for the remainder of the battle?

Also a refresher on what happens to the special abilities on converted characters/weapons on concerted characters. 
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Red Wing on September 29, 2011, 03:10:50 PM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).

Do they loose weapons/placed cards when converted? Especially in the case where a hero is only converted for the remainder of the battle?

Also a refresher on what happens to the special abilities on converted characters/weapons on concerted characters.

If the weapon does something opposite to the character's alighnment, then the weapon is discarded. If the weapon's SA is 'neutral' it stays. Hero SAs are lost when they are converted to ECs. Converted ECs follow the same rule as weapons.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: The_ARk on September 29, 2011, 03:20:03 PM
Weapons follow bearer, except that they are discarded when the bearer is captured (per game rule).

Do they loose weapons/placed cards when converted? Especially in the case where a hero is only converted for the remainder of the battle?

Also a refresher on what happens to the special abilities on converted characters/weapons on concerted characters.

If the weapon does something opposite to the character's alighnment, then the weapon is discarded. If the weapon's SA is 'neutral' it stays. Hero SAs are lost when they are converted to ECs. Converted ECs follow the same rule as weapons.

This is what I thought, but so much of that can be left to interpretation. I always thought it as neutral abilities such as draw abilities stayed.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Professoralstad on September 29, 2011, 03:24:52 PM
If the weapon does something opposite to the character's alighnment, then the weapon is discarded. If the weapon's SA is 'neutral' it stays. Hero SAs are lost when they are converted to ECs. Converted ECs follow the same rule as weapons.

Actually, the weapon is not discarded, it just doesn't activate. So if an EC had a weapon that said "may discard a Hero" and was converted, the converted EC could still have the weapon, it just wouldn't do anything aside from numbers.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: SomeKittens on September 29, 2011, 03:55:26 PM
Is it now considered a GE?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 04:29:35 PM
Yes. Weapons have always converted with their bearers, and follow the same SA conversion rules as characters.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: spicynumber1 on September 29, 2011, 04:37:18 PM
Would magic charms be discarded if the character is captured?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 04:38:13 PM
No, it's not a weapon.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: SomeKittens on September 29, 2011, 04:46:44 PM
Would magic charms be discarded if the character is captured?
Charms protects your Magicians from capture.  However, I think it'd go back to Art pile.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: SomeKittens on September 29, 2011, 04:54:59 PM
Placed cards and weapon class follow those rules.  Charms is an artifact.  No longer having a slot to be active on ("Your" being the operative word here), it returns to pile.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: christiangamer25 on September 29, 2011, 04:57:16 PM
ok but if the magician is discarded from territory then charms is still discarded?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 04:59:02 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Korunks on September 29, 2011, 05:59:47 PM
Wait so if My magician is shuffled while holding Charms is go to the art Pile?   Or if he is captured it goes to the art pile?
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 29, 2011, 06:05:03 PM
If he is shuffled it's shuffled. If he is captured it stays on him 'till your next art phase, then returns to your pile.
Title: Re: Weapons on Characters Returned to Hand
Post by: Korunks on September 29, 2011, 06:06:17 PM
Ok that makes sense, thanks for the clarification Pol.
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