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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: crustpope on April 21, 2009, 10:29:18 AM
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Ok Here is the scenario
My opponent comes in with jake and plays obedience of noah to choose their own Red dragon to block
Red dragon is immune to human heroes so he has initiative all day because I have no crimson enhancements to play on red dragon.
Jake plays Coat of many colors, and then plays warriors spear to discard the top card of my deck
Warrior's Spear
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Red • Ability: 3 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Discard the top card of opponent's deck. If it is a Lost Soul, put it in play instead and discard this card after battle. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: I Chronicles 12:24
Then he plays the long day and stillness to pull them all back from battle and begin a new rescue attempt.
OK my question is this. Is the new battle a totally different battle? in other words can Red dragon block for the second time? ( I am pretty sure that this has been ruled in the affirmative and red dragon can enter battle a second time.)
My next question is this. If one fo those cards that warrior spear discards is a lost soul, does warrirors spear go to the discard pile after stillness is played inspite of stillensses special ability?
Stillness
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Hero may withdraw from battle unharmed. All enhancement cards played may be returned to the player's hand except this one. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 46:10
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Yes, red dragon can block again and again.
I'm not sure on Warrior's Spear. I would guess it is still discarded, but IDK for sure.
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I had someone pull this in a type two deck and with all the repetition I ended up d/c my whole deck. But now that I think about it, all his copies of Warrior spear should have been discarded when I revealed LS's
Because I dont think you can have it both ways. If it is the same battle, then you can keep the warriors spears until the end of battle, but you cannot bring red dragon back into the same battle.
if it is a different battle then I think you lose x number of warriors spears (x being the number of LS's revealed during the d/c ability) before you begin the next battle with obedience of noah.
but wait. What if it was the same battle? and he just banded in multiple heroes so that he continued the battle indefinitely ( or atleast until his heroes ran out) that would let him keep his copies of Warriors spears I think because the battle would keep on going.
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i would think spear would return to hand due to stillness ability and reset in hand when the discard ability activates and tries to target spear.
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RTS is correct for the reasons he gave. But Jacob can't enter battle again that turn, right? He withdrew, so he is done for the turn, right?
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that is a good point, it would reset in hand...
*Opens RTS and madly starts building a d/c deck*
RTS is correct for the reasons he gave. But Jacob can't enter battle again that turn, right? He withdrew, so he is done for the turn, right?
I thought with long day you could use the same hero....
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I've ruled that if a hero withdraws from battle, he can't reenter battle that turn.
I'm pretty sure that is correct, but it MIGHT be that the hero just can't reenter the same battle.
If there is not a consensus in how this is played, I vote for not being able to reenter battle the same turn. Then the combos are limited to the number of heroes you have at a given time. Unlimited loops are not good for the game.
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Unlimited loops are not good for the game.
But they are fun.....
+1 that, if it isn't, it should be once per turn...
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http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/gloss_withdraw.htm (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/gloss_withdraw.htm)
The withdraw special ability either allows a character to exit battle unharmed or it forces an opposing character to leave the battle unharmed. Once a character withdraws from battle, the character may not reenter battle during the same turn.
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Yay! I'm relieved I've been ruling it correctly. :)
So the combo lasts until you run out of characters that can choose the Red Dragon. :)
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I'd just get around it by banding Seraphim to Jacob and using In the Clouds, which resets the characters in hand.
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Would that work? It would still be the same character trying to enter battle the next time.
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I'd just get around it by banding Seraphim to Jacob and using In the Clouds, which resets the characters in hand.
I don't think that would work for the same reason that I can't use Unknown Nation to add a second Simon the Magician to battle after you play AotL on the first Simon the Magician I block with. Simon has been in battle this turn. It doesn't matter where the card comes from. If a character has been in battle this turn, they've been in battle this turn.
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Yay! I'm relieved I've been ruling it correctly. :)
Not so quick there, Sparky. ;)
If a character is forced to withdraw (e.g., Darkness (Warriors)) or withdraws from a battle voluntarily (e.g., Highway), it may not re-enter the current battle (see Withdraw in the glossary of the rulebook [p. 54]). Moreover, the character may enter on a new battle on the same turn (e.g., The Long Day).
Emphasis mine.
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and that is the never ending loop I hope to exploit (given the right combo of cards of course)
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Um, am I overlooking something obvious???
Stillness
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Hero may withdraw from battle unharmed. All enhancement cards played may be returned to the player's hand except this one. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 46:10
How do you get Stillness back for an infinite loop?
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I could tell you but then I would have to kill you ;)
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I hate answers like that...
But am I right? With the cards talked about in the thread, it wouldn't be recurring right?
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The incredible blue recurrence card, Jubilee. It's from a starter deck, too, I believe.
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The incredible blue recurrence card, Jubilee. It's from a starter deck, too, I believe.
bingo. but now you gotta pass on to the next life...what do you want on your tombstone? ;)
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Here lies Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend, who gave up his life to teach another how to use a starter deck card.
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Man, he makes my last name just look pathetic. He's got more than twice as many letters. I'm jealous.
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So the REG contradicts itself? Sean's quote says you CAN'T reenter battle on the same turn, and MJB's quote says you may?
One of those needs to be fixed. I vote for fixing MJB's quote.
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Agreed. "Moreover" is a statement of addition, which suggests that the critical word "not" was accidentally left off that last section.
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true, but there are ways around it even if you do edit the reg to include the "not" that likely should be there.
sounds liek the powers that be need to get together and figure out whether you should fix the reg or leave it as is.
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Agreed. "Moreover" is a statement of addition, which suggests that the critical word "not" was accidentally left off that last section.
Unfortunately, I would have to agree that makes sense... :( It would have said "However" or something like that.
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So the REG contradicts itself? Sean's quote says you CAN'T reenter battle on the same turn, and MJB's quote says you may?
I always thought that the Special Conditions/Clarifications section took precedence over what was written in the General Description section of the REG. Especially in this case, where The Long Day is singled out with a specific ruling.
Do we know how the characters returning to battle rule was originally meant to apply to The Long Day?
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sounds liek the powers that be need to get together and figure out whether you should fix the reg or leave it as is.
No! Every time they get together we don't see them for months!! :P
On that note, I'd like to see the PTB take on the Greek or German philosophers in soccer. ;)
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Here lies Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend, who gave up his life to teach another how to use a starter deck card.
Actually, I believe the correct response is..."pepperoni and cheese."
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Actually, I believe the correct response is..."pepperoni and cheese."
There is the wyn!
Thats the response I was looking for ;)