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How exactly do you prevent the withdraw of the Hero but not the return of the enhancements?
Quote from: Gabe on March 07, 2011, 01:11:13 PMHow exactly do you prevent the withdraw of the Hero but not the return of the enhancements?Convert the Red guy who's "protected from withdraw" to green.
Since you're preventing the withdraw, you're not satisfying the condition to return the cards (based on the Play As).
Quote from: RedemptionAggie on March 07, 2011, 01:31:54 PMSince you're preventing the withdraw, you're not satisfying the condition to return the cards (based on the Play As).That Play As is an errata that shouldn't be there without an official announcement, and I don't think Visions was included in the discussion with Stillness/Highway/Trust (since it withdrew all Heroes, and no one ever thought of Cornered before). If I had to say why this might not work, it is that even though withdraw=return characters, there is still only one ability after the interrupt: return Heroes and enhancements. So by preventing the one withdraw ability, it could be said that you are preventing the whole ability (the return enhancements and withdraw Heroes). However, that might be a pretty shaky argument.
Visions of Iddo the Seer (Ki)Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and return all Heroes and good enhancements in battle to owner's hand except this one. • Play As: Interrupt the battle and withdraw all your Heroes from battle. If this causes good enhancements to be discarded, return all to your hand instead (except this card). • Identifiers: OT, Based on Prophecy, Spiritual Gift • Verse: II Chronicles 9:29 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common)Would this not be a do as much as possible argument like Jephthah? return all heros (prevented), return all enhancements (ok)
Maybe I should have just started playing the darn deck instead of asking for permission. after all, it is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission.
I'm not sure why Matt is giving up on this idea yet (other than past experience).
It still doesn't seem right to me that they are willing to let Visions of Iddo the Seer work as it is until someone figures out a way to do more with it then they thought it should. If they are so determined to close all loops then why not change all those cards now instead of waiting for someone to use it.
and until they do I am going to keep building and perfecting this "dangerous" deck.
Quoteand until they do I am going to keep building and perfecting this "dangerous" deck.fells like a waste of time to me...u could call it a hobby but seriously I dont see why they would allow it but i hope they do. It just seems a different way to recieve the same result. A result that they dont want in the game no matter how much it makes since and should work, goes against the main purpose. Fun and Fellowship. I guess every deck I build will not work, even though alot of games I play I hear comments like "That was the most epic game ever" and whatnot. I tend to play hand control because its a challenge to me to usually reach that gamestate but then I am punished because it isnt fun for my opponent. Oh well. I just want to say that I very much disapprove of decks where my opponent chooses thier own immune EC to block and plays alot of search cards to achieve some sort of lock or discard my deck. I do love piloting them though. :p
Sorry Clift that's an oxymoron. BTW break the game with visions and I'll send you a cookie.
Yes. If I recall correctly, "withdraw" is a special case of "return" that applies to characters. So any ability that returns characters to hand, territory, or deck is a withdraw ability.
Quote from: Professoralstad on March 07, 2011, 12:00:14 PMYes. If I recall correctly, "withdraw" is a special case of "return" that applies to characters. So any ability that returns characters to hand, territory, or deck is a withdraw ability. Why exactly is the "withdraw" only applicable to the hero? From the REG:Instant Special Abilities > Withdraw from Battle > General DescriptionWithdraw cards force or allow cards to leave the Field of Battle (see Withdraw in the glossary). The target and destination for withdrawal is specified on the withdrawal card. The most frequent use of withdrawal cards is to return a card to a player’s hand or territory. This quote would indicate that any card returned to hand would be considered a "withdraw" ability, and therefore would be stopped by Cornered.
It not a matter of breaking the game with visions. He broke it with Highway, and currently Visions lets him do basically the same thing, just with a different card. So send him that cookie!
actually I cant take credit for breaking the game with highway, there were plenty of people who built highway decks before me. And last years deck that broke it with highway was Johnathan Pequinot's deck, mine was a slightly varied copy of his.
Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 09, 2011, 04:26:53 PMQuote from: Professoralstad on March 07, 2011, 12:00:14 PMYes. If I recall correctly, "withdraw" is a special case of "return" that applies to characters. So any ability that returns characters to hand, territory, or deck is a withdraw ability. Why exactly is the "withdraw" only applicable to the hero? From the REG:Instant Special Abilities > Withdraw from Battle > General DescriptionWithdraw cards force or allow cards to leave the Field of Battle (see Withdraw in the glossary). The target and destination for withdrawal is specified on the withdrawal card. The most frequent use of withdrawal cards is to return a card to a player’s hand or territory. This quote would indicate that any card returned to hand would be considered a "withdraw" ability, and therefore would be stopped by Cornered.I guess I got that idea from the fact that in the new REG (cue rotten tomatoes coming my way), "withdraw" is an ability that targets characters in battle. However, that is not yet official, and it seems that this situation may present a problem that would perhaps make us rethink that point.
Is [Visions] a withdraw ability?
The current design/plan for withdraw is that the "withdraw" keyword refers to the subset of return abilities that: (1) target a character in battle, (2) return them to territory, and possibly (3) is optional to the player whose character leaves battle.
Quote from: SirNobody on March 18, 2011, 01:19:01 PMThe current design/plan for withdraw is that the "withdraw" keyword refers to the subset of return abilities that: (1) target a character in battle, (2) return them to territory, and possibly (3) is optional to the player whose character leaves battle.This is a very limited definition of "withdraw" which would severely limit the cards that refer to the withdraw ability. Whether that is a good thing or not is yet to be determined.
We're not withdrawing, we're advancing in a different direction.
ok so Visions of Iddo is not a withdraw ability so using cornered to negate all hero withdraw abilities will do nothing to Visions of Iddo. OK. SO what is Visions of Iddo? WHat type of ability is it?
