Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: soul seeker on May 30, 2009, 12:44:15 AM
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Hey guys,
I know we've discussed this before but I couldn't find the thread and I want to be clear so I don't tell someone wrong. Can you use the brand new promo at the same tournament you receive? (For example: new Haman at the same State Tourney you just got it from)
related question: what about technicalities like you get it Friday and want to use it in T1 on Saturday?
Let me know something official so players/participants don't get upset.
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You cannot use the brand new promo at the same tourney you received it. If a player went to a previous State tourney and got a Haman, or purchased one from someone who did, it would be legal for them to use that Haman.
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You cannot use the brand new promo at the same tourney you received it. If a player went to a previous State tourney and got a Haman, or purchased one from someone who did, it would be legal for them to use that Haman.
That's what I always thought, but everytribe (aka Wild Bill) recently told me that at State and higher level tourneys, the promos can not be used in the same season at the same tournament level they were first given. So, for example, this year Haman is not legal at any State level tournament this year (but it would be legal at Regionals and Nationals).
Can I get verification one way or another on this?
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I've never heard that before, only the rules that Gabe described.
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You cannot use the brand new promo at the same tourney you received it. If a player went to a previous State tourney and got a Haman, or purchased one from someone who did, it would be legal for them to use that Haman.
Aww, I didn't know that. Sad. :(
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It does sound inconsistent to have the rule the way Gabe stated. That would seem to cause an unfair situation for the few people who can access the promos online, or more concerning, cause inflated sale values for the people who sell cards online. We are limiting access to certain cards to a very select group of players. I can only see that as being detrimental at the least, elitist at the worst.
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Can I get verification one way or another on this?
I have heard it the way that Bill Voigt described it. I believe the question was raised a couple years ago in regards to Jairus, and that was the answer given back then as well.
If it was the way Gabe described, it gives a distinct advantage to hosting a state tournament early and then attending other state tournaments.
Kirk
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Hey,
Bill's thought makes more sense to me, but everything I've ever been told by official sources supports what Gabe has described.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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This hasn't really been an issue before outside of nationals, has it? I don't know anybody that wanted to use Jairus or Ordained as Disciples in their deck...
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But Haman on the other hand.... He's mean.
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At the Oregon State tourney it was ruled that Haman's could not be used by those who got them at the Nevada State tourney. As the Northwest regional host I would rule that Gates to Jerusalem could not be used even if they were purchased or recieved from another regional tourney. I've always heard that state, regional and Nationals promos that are new could not be used in a similar level tourney in the same year.
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Bryon confirmed Gabe's post at today's tournament. However, if I understood him right, the restriction only applied to the new promo (other 5 others are legal). There may not be a consensus on the issue.
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There may not be a consensus on the issue.
Apparently. 8)
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I agree with what Bill Voigt said. I think that was what was officially decided a couple years ago.
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You cannot use the brand new promo at the same tourney you received it. If a player went to a previous State tourney and got a Haman, or purchased one from someone who did, it would be legal for them to use that Haman.
With all due respect, what's the difference between Haman given to you at a current State tourney and Haman bought or received somewhere else? :o
I would rule Haman not to be used officially at any State tourney before Nats09? Doesn't it make more sense to do just that?
Rob? Schaef?
;D
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+ 1 Reyzen ;)
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With all due respect, what's the difference between Haman given to you at a current State tourney and Haman bought or received somewhere else? :o
I would rule Haman not to be used officially at any State tourney before Nats09? Doesn't it make more sense to do just that?
+1
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What Gabe said has always been my understanding. What Matt says seems more fair to all involved parties.
I have no authority to change it, and I'm not really invested in the outcome, to be honest, but I think at present Gabe's reading is correct.
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I'm invested. Make it stop! >:(
;)
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its always been my understanding to be the way gabe detailed. this came up a few years back for me actually at a regionals...nicanor had just came out, but i used the loophole of purchasing the card early so i could use it in the regional tournament i was attending. it was allowed.
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Just to be clear, I got my ruling on the use of promos from Kevin Shride. He's a long time tournament hosting vet and I've learned most of what I know about hosting from him. What I stated was pretty much his exact ruling at Iowa States this year when we co-hosted.
So as far as I know, like Schaef said, Kevin's ruling is the current standard. I do agree that it would be more fair to not allow the new state promo to be used at any state level tournaments this year.
If we make that change it brings up other questions. Is it legal to use the Panic Demon promo at another local tournament during the season it's released? How about using Jonathan, son of Joiada at a district? Where do we draw the line?
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Where do we draw the line?
The once-a-year tournaments are a good line.
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Where do we draw the line?
The once-a-year tournaments are a good line.
+1
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I am in favor of draw the line at the once per year tournaments.
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The only once a year tournament is natz ;) I think the line should be state and higher, the one per location type tournaments. :D
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The only once a year tournament is natz ;) I think the line should be state and higher, the one per location type tournaments. :D
I agree with the fairnesssoundingness of this post.
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The new Haman state promo cannot be used at a state tournament this year. The other state promo cards may be used at any tournament - doesn't matter if you got the other five that day or at an earlier state tournament. Haman can be used at a Regional and Nationals.
The new Regional Promo cannot be used prior to Nationals this year. The other five - same as above.
It used to be as Kevin and Gabe described it. But, I thought better of it when people came up with ahem, what I will call "creative ways," to justify use of the new promo. The fair thing to do seemed to be just to draw a clear line.
Obviously some people knew and others didn't. I thought we added this to the tournament guide a few years ago. I just checked and didn't see it. Hopefully I didn't accidentally delete it when I made all my updates to the document last year. I was unaware of the confusion until I saw this thread.
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Thanks for the clarification Rob!
Kirk
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I also appreciate the clarification Rob, as well as the decision to make the rule as fair for everyone as possible :)
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Yey fairness!
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Thanks, Rob.
Chalk this up as yet another point for Wild Bill. Next thing we know straw wrapper shooting will be an official Redemption tournament event.
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Chalk this up as yet another point for Wild Bill. Next thing we know straw wrapper shooting will be an official Redemption tournament event.
Hasn't that been in the Tournament guide since '03?
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There will be 2 official categories this year at North Central Regional’s.
Type 1 is shooting for distance and Type 2 is shooting for accuracy.
We hope to add a multi player event for 2010. The straw testers have done an excellent job this year and we will be using a new brand of straws. And yes they have foil wrappers.
Wild Bill
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Foil wrappers? the paper ones work much better.
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But the foil ones are shiny! Who cares if they're less effective or even if they cost more, they're shiny, therefore everyone values them more.
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Again the straw testers did a super job. The new wrappers shot much farther and will make it easier for the new players to compete. Accuracy is a little more challenging with the foil wrappers, thats why we made it Type 2. There is still some randomness involved since your at the mercy of the luck of the draw. Not all wrappers are equal.
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I just hope I don't get a recycled straw that just has new red stripes.
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When will Cactus wake up and realize that gimmicks like this alienate the existing player base? This is terrible for long-time collectors and adding even more luck to the game is just ridiculous at this point. Come and get me in a year and we'll see if they've come up with a good idea yet.
But it's fun!
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Your accuracy in quoting people is less than zero percent.
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no, he did a pretty good impression of me :)
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When will Cactus wake up and realize that gimmicks like this alienate the existing player base? This is terrible for long-time collectors and adding even more luck to the game is just ridiculous at this point. Come and get me in a year and we'll see if they've come up with a good idea yet.
But it's fun!
I was going to announce that Tim had won the thread...
Your accuracy in quoting people is less than zero percent.
Then this happened.
So, YMT and Tim must split the prize of 1 interwebs.
~Marti
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So, YMT and Tim must split the prize of 1 interwebs.
We're already interwebbed.... we're both Tims. I'm older, so I am hereby referred to as I Timothy. Mierz is II Timothy. The other Tim (Nobody in particular) will have to be referred to as Titus.
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LOL, nice.
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Maly is a few years older than me, I believe, but I won't argue so I don't have to be Titus.
Does the fact that my grandmother in real life is named Lois factor into this at all? Sadly*, my mother is not named Eunice.
*Happily