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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 12:12:30 AM

Title: Used Up?
Post by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 12:12:30 AM
I use Holy Grail (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/holygrail.htm) two times.  What happens?

I use New Jerusalem (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/newjerusalem.sitecard..htm) two times. What happens?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: lightningninja on January 10, 2010, 12:24:03 AM
Both are discarded. Well... I know for a fact that Holy Grail is discarded... not sure about New Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Gabe on January 10, 2010, 12:37:25 AM
It's written in the old REG or rulebook that used up Artifacts are discarded.  There is no such rule for Sites.  I always assumed they worked they same way and was surprised to find out they don't.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: browarod on January 10, 2010, 12:40:06 AM
It's written in the old REG or rulebook that used up Artifacts are discarded.  There is no such rule for Sites.  I always assumed they worked they same way and was surprised to find out they don't.
So they just sit in your territory doing nothing?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: sk on January 10, 2010, 12:49:07 AM
NJ site does, yes.  Promised Land specifically states it is discarded after two uses.

Ongoing Abilities > Access to Sites > How to Use (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/howtouse.htm)
"Access sites return to your territory at the end of battle unless the site card specifically instructs that it be discarded (e.g., Promised Land)."
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Gabe on January 10, 2010, 12:56:08 AM
It's written in the old REG or rulebook that used up Artifacts are discarded.  There is no such rule for Sites.  I always assumed they worked they same way and was surprised to find out they don't.
So they just sit in your territory doing nothing?

SK is correct.  The NJ Site could serve as a target for your Trumpet Blast or keep your opponent from destroying your Fortress with Land Dispute.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Master KChief on January 10, 2010, 02:18:55 AM
or, the lost souls that trigger when put in a site.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 10, 2010, 08:54:23 AM
or, the lost souls that trigger when put in a site.
O_o; isn't that what multi colored sites are for?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 10:20:32 AM
It's written in the old REG or rulebook that used up Artifacts are discarded.  There is no such rule for Sites.  I always assumed they worked they same way and was surprised to find out they don't.
Inconsistent.  Somebody fix it.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on January 10, 2010, 11:15:21 AM
My question is... Dragonraid can be used for access without it's SA, why can't a NJ in your territory do the same thing?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 11:30:48 AM
My question is... Dragonraid can be used for access without it's SA, why can't a NJ in your territory do the same thing?
Hey, don't get ahead of me.   :P
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 10, 2010, 12:24:36 PM
My question is... Dragonraid can be used for access without it's SA, why can't a NJ in your territory do the same thing?

Yes, NJ does go back in territory. And, yes, NJ remains a multi-color site. And, yes, multi-color sites can be used to grant access to any site by game rule. But the card has an SA that explicitly states,"This Site may be used for no more than two rescue attempts per game," and SAs override game rules.

If you used NJ with Centurion at Capernaum, NJ would provide site-access again (although you wouldn;t need it in thast case).
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 10, 2010, 01:57:28 PM
Last I knew NJ discarded himself based on the rule used up cards are discarded.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Prof Underwood on January 10, 2010, 09:15:04 PM
Yes, NJ does go back in territory. And, yes, NJ remains a multi-color site. And, yes, multi-color sites can be used to grant access to any site by game rule. But the card has an SA that explicitly states,"This Site may be used for no more than two rescue attempts per game," and SAs override game rules.
If the only thing stopping NJ from being used forever is it's SA, then does that mean that I could use it with any FBN Hero forever?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 10, 2010, 09:19:43 PM
If the only thing stopping NJ from being used forever is it's SA, then does that mean that I could use it with any FBN Hero forever?

Since when have FBN characters negated Special Abilities on sites (aside from Centurion at Capernaum, that is)?

Last I knew NJ discarded himself based on the rule used up cards are discarded.

Read Gabe's posts immediately above.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on January 10, 2010, 09:48:45 PM
Since when have FBN characters negated Special Abilities on sites (aside from Centurion at Capernaum, that is)?

I agree with MJB. Also note that completed SAs from previous turns cannot be negated. NJ site SA is treated like a "remainder of game" ability once it has been used twice, therefore it cannot be used for a site access after the second use and that cannot be negated in later turns.

The Centurion may negate the use limitation while he is using the site the first two times, but since he already has a site-access SA, that is quite irrelevant.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 10:30:31 PM
Holy Grail doesn't say to discard after used either.  The rules for Artifacts and Sites that have limited use should be the same.  Am I the only one who sees this as inconsistent?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on January 10, 2010, 10:39:12 PM
Holy Grail doesn't say to discard after used either.  The rules for Artifacts and Sites that have limited use should be the same.  Am I the only one who sees this as inconsistent?

I do. I was only referring to the ruling for NJ site access.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Prof Underwood on January 10, 2010, 11:25:29 PM
The rules for Artifacts and Sites that have limited use should be the same.  Am I the only one who sees this as inconsistent?
I agree they would seem more consistent if they were the same.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 11:44:26 PM
Quote
I agree they would be consistent if they were the same.
Fixed. :)
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 11, 2010, 12:46:49 AM
Holy Grail doesn't say to discard after used either.  The rules for Artifacts and Sites that have limited use should be the same.  Am I the only one who sees this as inconsistent?

I'm not really sure why you think limited use Artifacts and Sites should be treated in the same manner when they are qualitatively different things. I don't consider treating different things differently as an example of inconsistency. There are any number of characters who have limited use per game abilities (e.g., Jephthah and King Amazing). Are you arguing we should discard those characters after their SA is used up?

In any case, I was explaining why NJ (site version) works the way it does currently, which is mostly orthogonal to this discussion. Thanks to YMT for adding a new wrinkle I hadn't thought about.  Nice. Very nice.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Sean on January 11, 2010, 10:32:52 AM
Quote
I'm not really sure why you think limited use Artifacts and Sites should be treated in the same manner when they are qualitatively different things. I don't consider treating different things differently as an example of inconsistency. There are any number of characters who have limited use per game abilities (e.g., Jephthah and King Amazing). Are you arguing we should discard those characters after their SA is used up?
I would actually go the other way and say that used up Artifacts remain in the Artifact pile but the main thing is that if something is used up then it either goes away or stays around.  The fact that one used up card remains while another used up card goes away is inconsistent.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 11, 2010, 12:32:49 PM
Quote
I'm not really sure why you think limited use Artifacts and Sites should be treated in the same manner when they are qualitatively different things. I don't consider treating different things differently as an example of inconsistency. There are any number of characters who have limited use per game abilities (e.g., Jephthah and King Amazing). Are you arguing we should discard those characters after their SA is used up?
I would actually go the other way and say that used up Artifacts remain in the Artifact pile but the main thing is that if something is used up then it either goes away or stays around.  The fact that one used up card remains while another used up card goes away is inconsistent.
Quote
I'm not really sure why you think limited use Artifacts and Sites should be treated in the same manner when they are qualitatively different things. I don't consider treating different things differently as an example of inconsistency. There are any number of characters who have limited use per game abilities (e.g., Jephthah and King Amazing). Are you arguing we should discard those characters after their SA is used up?
I would actually go the other way and say that used up Artifacts remain in the Artifact pile but the main thing is that if something is used up then it either goes away or stays around.  The fact that one used up card remains while another used up card goes away is inconsistent.
Angelic advice anyone?
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 11, 2010, 03:13:06 PM
Most limited-use Artifacts that are not "per game" specify to Discard them via their own SA. I Agree, Uzzah should be able to make use of my twice-used Stone Pillar.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 12, 2010, 11:58:51 AM
It would also be nice in regard to people like The Assyrian Spoliers & The Imperial Guard who discard random facedown artifacts.
Title: Re: Used Up?
Post by: RTSmaniac on January 19, 2010, 02:22:26 PM
the only thing i would be concerned with is a used up burial shroud restetting and others like joseph silver cup i think...but i would rather like to have the opportunity to reset them... ;D
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