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Author Topic: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP  (Read 983 times)

Offline MrMiYoda

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Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« on: January 24, 2013, 06:02:25 AM »
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I was trying to find this on another thread, but I guess my researching skills are getting old as I am.

Please kindly word how this all works so that an 8 yr old can easily understand.

This is how my 12-yr-old player states the fact:
"The ruling is if Wall of Protection is on the rescuing player's territory and Goliath is played, the rescuing player can only place a hero from his/her hand on the table. This is because the ability on Wall of Protection states that no character of yours may be brought into battle by an opponent. Which if you think about it Goliath IS trying to bring the opponent's character into battle."

Thanks and Godbless.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 08:38:28 AM by ReyZen »
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2013, 09:04:44 AM »
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Any card of any player (except yourself) that tries to make your character come into battle from your territory is stopped by WoP. Goliath is trying to make your character come into battle, so his ability is stopped by WoP.

Is that simple enough? I could probably add more about how even though it is your choice to bring a new character in or not, it is Goliath's ability that is causing it to happen, thus WoP would stop it, but I'm trying to keep it simple.
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Offline MrMiYoda

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 10:52:57 AM »
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Thank you Jordan.

If a player asks me why, then, can he/she bring a hero from his/her hand into battle after Goliath kicks back the previous hero, how can I explain that in simplest form?  I know that it's the concept of 'from out-of-play' but I still want to make the explanation as elementary as possible.

Peace and Blessings.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 11:19:48 AM »
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Quote from: ReyZen on January 24, 2013, 10:52:57 AM
Thank you Jordan.

If a player asks me why, then, can he/she bring a hero from his/her hand into battle after Goliath kicks back the previous hero, how can I explain that in simplest form?  I know that it's the concept of 'from out-of-play' but I still want to make the explanation as elementary as possible.

Peace and Blessings.

To be honest, that's a really good question, and I'm not sure if that should technically be allowed after thinking about it. The reason the opponent can't bring a Hero into battle is because Goliath can't target a Hero in the territory with an ability that would bring it into battle. Which means that Goliath has to target the Hero that is brought into battle in a normal situation (no WoP), which means that Goliath's ability has to target cards. Since heroes in hand are not in play, then Goliath shouldn't be able to target them...

All that to say is that unless I'm wrong, Goliath is the absolute best EC to get in your first draw, with Philistine Armorbearer being a close second, and The Amalekite's Slave a not-too-distant third. But I think this might warrant further discussion.

Never mind. Goliath's ability is a withdraw and a present, which according to the new REG allows people to add characters from hand. So that's what I would say: WoP doesn't protect characters in hand, and players may present characters from hand from a present abilities. So you can add a character from hand for Goliath.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:43:39 AM by Professoralstad »
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 12:36:36 PM »
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The one exception being if David is in territory he may enter battle, being that the Valley of Elah isn't protected by the Wall of Protection back in Jerusalem.

;)
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 12:38:37 PM »
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Quote from: ReyZen on January 24, 2013, 10:52:57 AM
If a player asks me why, then, can he/she bring a hero from his/her hand into battle after Goliath kicks back the previous hero, how can I explain that in simplest form?  I know that it's the concept of 'from out-of-play' but I still want to make the explanation as elementary as possible.

Wall of Protection specifies that it only protects characters in territory. Maybe in the future we could create an artifact/covenant that allows a player to add a character from set-aside (or better yet capture) to battle, or even just a good version of Unknown Nation.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 01:22:16 PM »
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Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 24, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
Wall of Protection specifies that it only protects characters in territory. Maybe in the future we could create an artifact/covenant that allows a player to add a character from set-aside (or better yet capture) to battle, or even just a good version of Unknown Nation.

Sadly, the problem with a good Unknown Nation is the beast known as Ahimelek, which means it will probably never be created (or at least won't be able to target him).
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 01:40:57 PM »
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Quote from: jmhartz on January 24, 2013, 01:22:16 PM
Sadly, the problem with a good Unknown Nation is the beast known as Ahimelek, which means it will probably never be created (or at least won't be able to target him).

In fact, something like that would probably be best suited for a small/new theme to try to make it competitive with larger/current themes.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Clarification on Relationship Between Goliath (p) and WoP
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 12:06:05 PM »
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Quote from: Professoralstad on January 24, 2013, 01:40:57 PM
In fact, something like that would probably be best suited for a small/new theme to try to make it competitive with larger/current themes.

Is that a spoiler alert?   :D
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