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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: stefferweffer on March 31, 2010, 12:36:03 AM

Title: Understanding my Self better
Post by: stefferweffer on March 31, 2010, 12:36:03 AM
We were playing tonight and I used Self for the first time ever.

1) Do I choose a hero when he enters my territory, or only when he enters battle?
2) Do I assume correctly that I cannot even play Self if my opponent has no heroes in play?
3) If I bring Self into battle from hand against a FBTN hero, is Self's ability negated?

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Undertsanding my Self better
Post by: Professoralstad on March 31, 2010, 12:38:28 AM
We were playing tonight and I used Self for the first time ever.

1) Do I choose a hero when he enters my territory, or only when he enters battle?
2) Do I assume correctly that I cannot even play Self if my opponent has no heroes in play?
3) If I bring Self into battle from hand against a FBTN hero, is Self's ability negated?

Thanks for the help.

1) You choose a Hero when he enters play, either territory or battle. His "special ability" is really an identifier.
2) Not actually sure. I would say no.
3) Nope. As in 1), his SA is an identifier, just like Silly Women.
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 31, 2010, 02:01:07 AM
I am quite interested in the answer to question 2. I don't think there is any precedent by which we could disallow a character from entering play, except maybe that of ignore stopping a character from blocking from hand during battle. If I were to make a guess, I would say that Self is just discarded as soon as he enters play if your opponent has no heroes.
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: STAMP on March 31, 2010, 01:25:44 PM
Self
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: * / * • Class: None • Special Ability: Abilities (*/*) match the abilities of one of opponent’s Heroes in play. If that Hero leaves the field of play, abilities become 0/0. • Identifiers: Generic NT  Human, (gender, testament, and other identifiers match selected Hero) • Verse: Colossians 3:9 • Availability: Promotional cards (2006 District Tournament)


I would rule that since "*/*" has no definition it is equal to nothing which in turn is equal to 0/0 and would be discarded at the end of the phase in which Self was put into play, barring any changes to the numbers.
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: Professoralstad on March 31, 2010, 01:44:43 PM
Self
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: * / * • Class: None • Special Ability: Abilities (*/*) match the abilities of one of opponent’s Heroes in play. If that Hero leaves the field of play, abilities become 0/0. • Identifiers: Generic NT  Human, (gender, testament, and other identifiers match selected Hero) • Verse: Colossians 3:9 • Availability: Promotional cards (2006 District Tournament)


I would rule that since "*/*" has no definition it is equal to nothing which in turn is equal to 0/0 and would be discarded at the end of the phase in which Self was put into play, barring any changes to the numbers.

That's mathematically incorrect. {0} =/= {}, ie, a set that consists of only zero is distinct from a null set. If there were a hero in play with abilities 0/0, then Self would be 0/0. Otherwise he can't be.

I almost think that Self would just hang out in your territory with no abilities or identifiers, trying to copy a hero but being unable to until your opponent put one in play.
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: Korunks on March 31, 2010, 01:52:50 PM
Self --> (null/null)

Self throws Null Pointer Exception  ;) ( for all the coders among us)
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: STAMP on March 31, 2010, 02:10:38 PM
I just don't think it would be a good ruling to just have Self hang around in territory with no definition of */*.  What if I put Self in battle?  In this case, I think it would be easier for all rulings if when */* cannot be defined (null) then of all the different combinations of numbers, 0/0 matches up best with null.
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 31, 2010, 02:12:37 PM
How are you going to put him in battle if your opponent has no Heroes in play?
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: RedemptionAggie on March 31, 2010, 02:34:28 PM
Side battle?  Choose the rescuer, discard the original rescuer and then band him in?
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 31, 2010, 03:09:52 PM
Side battle?  Choose the rescuer, discard the original rescuer and then band him in?
But in that case, Self would have copied the hero as soon as it entered play, and thus would be discarded at the end of the phase, right?
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: stefferweffer on March 31, 2010, 03:55:09 PM
Now I have even MORE questions about SELF.  I have a multi-evil color deck where if I could have a 1/1 multi=color EC I could really wreak some havoc.

1)  Say I copy your 5/5 hero.  The I use one of the evil set asides on Self that allows him/her to gain 1/1 per turn set aside.  I bring him back after one turn, and now I am 6/6.  If your hero leaves play, am I now 1/1 and still in play?

2)  Can I use that evil set aside that allows me to choose whether he comes back 12/12 or 1/1?  Say I do so and Self is now 1/1.  Is he still a "copy" of that hero, in the sense that if the hero leaves play I still have to discard Self?

3)  If I capture the hero that Self is copying, that hero is still "in play", right?

4)  Maybe this would work.  Put two OT 1/1 heroes in my deck, along with Stalks of Flax.  I activate Stalks of Flax and give you my two 1/1 heroes for two turns.  I am now allowed to bring Self in and copy one of "your" new 1/1 heroes, correct?  Would anything change after I get my heroes back in two turns?

5)  I assume Torment will not save Self if he is being discarded because his copied hero is being discarded?

6)  Do Self's power/toughness change as the hero's does?  For example, if I copied Joel (1/1), and Joel gets a lost soul, now Joel is 2/2.  Is Self now 2/2 or still 1/1?  Or I copy a 4/4 hero and activate Plagued with Diseases.  Does the toughness of Self go down because the toughness of the hero just did?

Come to think of it I will start a new thread about this.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: Understanding my Self better
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 01, 2010, 01:39:24 AM
1. No. Abilities become 0/0, just like the card says.
2. Yes, and it will change his abilities, but when the Hero leaves play he still dies.
3. Idk, it's still in play, but it's no longer a hero.
4. "Your" means ownership and control.
5. Technically it will, but the instant he is healed he's discarded again.
6. I don't believe it's dynamic. You copy it once and then it stays that way until the Hero leaves play or some other nonsense.
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