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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on July 13, 2016, 10:03:08 PM

Title: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: Josh on July 13, 2016, 10:03:08 PM
Justin and I weren't 100% sure on this.  One of us attacks with a purple king and has The Throne of David in play.  Other player blocks.  Throne triggers, drawing Open Hand LS.  Does the Play ability of Throne happen before Open Hand LS lets the attacker look at the defender's hand?  That's how we played it.

The Throne of David - "When your purple king is blocked, if no evil weapon is in battle, you may draw X and play an OT purple enhancement."

Open Hands LS - "When this card is put in a territory, you may reveal a hand."
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: TheJaylor on July 13, 2016, 10:07:31 PM
Wouldn't Open Hand's ability complete as part of Throne's draw? Or is it a delayed trigger?
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: Redoubter on July 13, 2016, 10:09:52 PM
Huh.  Interesting question.

I might be inclined to rule the other way myself, but I can see it both ways.  This isn't a triggered ability, which has to wait until all other abilities complete, it is something that essentially part of the draw.  However, that is not codified in the rules of Draw nor the entry for Lost Souls, so we can't say that for certain.  It also raises the question of whether, for example, a Unified Kingdom bringing in a King Solomon causes the fortress to complete as well before other banded Heroes have their abilities complete.

I personally see these cards activating (Lost Souls or the fortress in the case above) as being part of the ability that caused them to be 'played' (much like a band that brings in a character activates it before the banding card completes).  I don't see anything explicit in the rules either way, though.
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: kariusvega on July 13, 2016, 10:51:42 PM
i'm thinking throne has to complete, then open hand has it's opportunity to complete after the other abilities complete as part of the battle
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: jbeers285 on July 13, 2016, 10:54:56 PM
Open hand complete is part of throne's draw completing though isn't it?
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: kariusvega on July 13, 2016, 10:58:04 PM
i guess i just see throne and open hand as a completely separate abilities completing
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: Gabe on July 13, 2016, 11:03:39 PM
I believe that triggered abilities (like Throne) that are already active but waiting for an event to happen must wait for all other abilities to complete.

An ability that is activated as a result of resolving another ability (such as the draw) is completed immediately and does not wait.

That's consistent with how Justin and I have played this scenario:

Me: evil battle winner EE
Justin: SI plays Reach, draws 3, including the destruction Lost Soul which discards my interrupted EE, then he can play from Reach.
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: TheJaylor on July 13, 2016, 11:05:44 PM
i guess i just see throne and open hand as a completely separate abilities completing
They are, the Open Hand soul just "inserts" itself in the draw part of Throne, and then Throne continues.
Title: Re: Throne of David vs. Open Hand LS
Post by: kariusvega on July 14, 2016, 01:12:33 AM
nice i did not know you could do this! good to know!
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