Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Hey,

If I have a gray evil character in my territory, can I reveal a gray evil character in my The Darkness and then block with it (assuming there are no other gray evil characters in play)?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

I actually don't think so because doesn't (technically) a face down EC have no brigade (this is going on the ruling that if 1 color of a Multi-Color EC is ignored then that EC is ignored)

I'll agree you can. As soon as it is turned up, there are two of said brigade in play. Beings you don't go into battle with it face down, the two characters are in play before the actual block.

Does this work the same way for Unknown Nation? If so, I got jipped in that game we had a while back Caleb

The wording on "The Darkness" I think clearly says you can, now that I looked at it.

The Darkness

Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place an Evil Character from hand face down here. If an opponent begins a rescue attempt and chooses a blocker (or is unblocked), you may reveal this evil character. Blocking player may add it to the battle. Otherwise return it face down. • Identifiers: Holds one Evil Character • Verse: John 3:19 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Ultra Rare)

When you are attacked, you're being ignored. Regardless of being ignored, The Darkness triggers. Your character is then revealed, so now 2 of those brigades are in play; before you block. You now may add it to battle.

Reveal is not in play.  The only reason The Darkness works is because the wording targets the card specifically.

adding the evil character to battle puts it in play, not the revealing part.

revealer ls, i am holy, praise him moon, equipped for the mission, seemingly insignificant, que, begging for freedom, the bronze laver, roman prison, jericho, tears for a friend, hamans plot exposed, holy unto the lord, inspection, rain becomes dust, evil spawn (before add), evil armor, sin in the camp, marys 7 demons, seeker of the lost, and jairus among others all disagree with you.

my understanding is it is in play when it has fulfilled all of the special ability the darkness designates when adding the evil character to battle. the hero ambush designates cannot be in play until the special abilities of a) it is added to battle and b) an evil character blocks it are fulfilled.

however, if revealing an evil character in the darkness means it is in play at that moment, can someone aotl it, regardless if they add it to the battle or not?

Ignored characters cannot be added to battle.  Revealing the character on The Darkness doesn't put it in play, choosing to add it to battle puts it in play.  Since it's being ignored you cannot add it to battle.

It is revealed then put into battle.

My question to Gabe is why isn't it in play? The Darkness is in play therefore the card in The Darkness is in play. When you reveal it there are now 2 of the same brigade in play. After that, you have the choice to add it to battle.

Hey,

Unknown Nation does not work against TGT.  Revealing a card does not change its location.  So with Unknown Nation if you reveal it, it is still in the draw pile and is brought into battle directly from the draw pile.  You can't use Unknown Nation to get King Zimri when King David is attacking, and you can't use Unknown Nation against TGT if you have one character of the brigade in play and you want to get the second from your draw pile.

I had a new thought about The Darkness.  Isn't the character in The Darkness actually in play, but it's just treated as out of play because it is face down?  Just like Ambush says return the character to your territory, so then it has to be in your territory, but we still say it's out of play, it can't be both...physically it is in the territory, but it is treated as if it were out of play because it is face down.

So then the actual location of a character in The Darkness is in my territory, the functional location of a character in The Darkness is out of play and the state of the character in The Darkness is face down (which dictates the functional location).  So I can change the functional location of the character in The Darkness without changing it's actual location by modifying it's state.

When I reveal a card I do not change it's actual location, but if I change it's state, then revealing a character in The Darkness would mean that it is no longer functionally out of play, which would allow it to be functionally in play like the card physically is, which would allow for it to block in the situation presented at the beginning of this thread.

Revealed and face down seem to be intuitively mutually exclusive to me.  Face down means people don't see it, revealed means people do see it, they're opposites.  I'm inclined to say that revealed is a third possible state in addition to face down and face up.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

When I reveal a card I do not change it's actual location, but if I change it's state, then revealing a character in The Darkness would mean that it is no longer functionally out of play, which would allow it to be functionally in play like the card physically is, which would allow for it to block in the situation presented at the beginning of this thread.

im also puzzled on how you arrived at the conclusion of this point from your initial argument. if revealing a card does not change its location (which i completely agree with) then the card would still be out of play even when revealed, correct?

i think the reason people are getting confused on this issue is because of ambush; nowhere on the card does it say reveal, and flipping a card face up is not the same as revealing. it is simply changing game-state conditions from face down to face up. face down, face up, and reveal are three seperate things...revealing a card simply makes itself known to other players, nothing more.

Hey,

Ambush: "Set aside a male Hero (face down) from your hand for one turn.  Hero returns to territory face down.  Hero enters battle face down with access to any site.  when opponent presents an Evil Character in battle, Hero is flipped face up."

If face down is actually out of play then "Hero returns to territory face down" is an oxymoron.  Your territory is in play, face down is out of play, the Hero can't be both.  My attempt to account for this discrepancy is by assuming face down makes the card treated as out of play rather than actually making it out of play.  This is where I get the "actual location" and "functional location" ideas from in my previous post.  Face down makes it functionally out of play while the actual location is in my territory.

If you have a different method for explaining how a character can be face down and in a territory at the same time I'd be interested to hear it.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The general rule is that cards that are in certain locations are considered to be in-play.  Abilities and/or game rules can specify that a card is placed face-down in a location, and it's face-down status trumps its location as to whether the card is considered in play.

Revealing a card only shows it to players, nothing else.

Ambush works because the ability specifies that the Hero can be added to battle and then flipped face-up.  The Darkness works because the ability points you to the card and then tells the player what to do with it; you can reveal this in certain situations and then people have the option to bring it back in to play by blocking/banding with it.

Hey,

Lost Soul, "Protect this Lost Soul from rescue, except by a player with a human Hero in play or set-aside area."

My angel gets Gold Shielded to red and it's the only hero I have in play.  I play Ambush and set-aside a human hero from my hand.  Can I then attack with my angel and rescue the above lost soul?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Hey,

I'm fairly certain Gold Shield can only target humans.

Right...so he uses Coat of Many Colors instead.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly