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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Redoubter on September 16, 2014, 10:34:23 PM

Title: The Block(ing)[s] Proposal
Post by: Redoubter on September 16, 2014, 10:34:23 PM: TL;DR - My proposed definition(s) for block (and all variations):

1. When a player is attacked, they are considered the "blocker".
2. At any point in a battle, if there are no Evil Characters opposing a Hero, and an Evil Character is placed in the Field of Battle to oppose that Hero (whether by Special Ability or the blocker's choice), that is considered a "block" by that Evil Character for the purposes of abilities that trigger when a hero is blocked.
3. An Evil Character is considered to be "blocking" at any point that it is opposing a Hero in battle.
4. A hero is considered to be "blocked" by any Evil Character opposing it in battle.
5. If an Evil Character was used to oppose a Hero at any point in battle, it was "used to block" for the purposes of special abilities that reference Evil Characters used in the battle.
6. A "successful block" occurs when the Hero(es) in battle do not accomplish their goal. This can mean different things for Rescue Attempts and Battle Challenges. If at any point, the battle was a Rescue Attempt, then a successful block occurs anytime no Lost Soul is rescued during Battle Resolution. If the battle began as a Battle Challenge and never became a Rescue Attempt, a successful block can happen in any of the following ways:
a. All attacking Heroes are removed from the Field of Battle before Battle Resolution by a special ability.
b. The battle ends in a stalemate.
c. The battle ends with the blocking Evil Character(s) defeating the Hero(es) by total strength and toughness comparison.

Detailed information and analysis is below. However, I got progressively tired as I went, so someone else going through and correcting me wouldn't be a bad idea.

Alright folks, I mentioned it in this thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/throne-double-trigger/), but I want to try and get this definition hammered out. So, here are the current definitions:

Quote from: The REG: Block
Block
Blocking is the attempt to prevent a rescue. Only Evil Characters may block. Whenever an Evil Character enters the Field of Battle against a Hero (regardless of what point the battle is), that is considered a block.

Quote from: The REG: Successful Block
Successful Block
A successful block occurs when the Hero(es) in battle do not accomplish their goal. This can mean different things for Rescue Attempts and Battle Challenges. If at any point, the battle was a Rescue Attempt, then a successful block occurs anytime no Lost Soul is rescued during Battle Resolution. If the battle began as a Battle Challenge and never became a Rescue Attempt, a successful block can happen in any of the following ways:
• All attacking Heroes are removed from the Field of Battle before Battle Resolution by a special ability.
• The battle ends in a stalemate.
• The battle ends with the blocking Evil Character(s) defeating the Hero(es) by total strength and toughness comparison.

Quote from: The REG: Evil Characters
Evil Character
Evil Characters are cards with a dragon in the icon box. Evil Characters block rescue attempts and
battle challenges.

However, we have rulings that are not consistent with this. For example, The Throne of David (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/The_Throne_of_David_(RA)) specifies an event for 'when your purple king is blocked,' but the consistent ruling has been that only the first such block (whether in the battle or when one enters with an empty evil side of battle is still under debate) despite the fact that "regardless of what point the battle is" when "an Evil Character enters the Field of Battle against a Hero, that is considered a block."
Title: Re: The Block(ing)[s] Proposal
Post by: Redoubter on September 16, 2014, 10:35:37 PM: We also have a great number of ways 'block' is used. I have listed each below, and categorized cards as best I can:

The Basics

"If (one)/When/While blocking (blocks)..."
This group is fairly easy, and doesn't have much of a question right now. Blocking is being used as the condition for allowing the ability to continue.

Alexander
Asherah Pole
Assyrian Siege Army
Assyria's Tribute
Babylonian Soldiers
Damsel with Spirit of Divination
Elymas the Sorcerer
Emperor Caius Caligula
Gates of Jerusalem - trigger
Gifts for Esau
Guards
Herod Agrippa II
Herod's Dungeon - trigger
Jerusalem
Judaizers
King Amon
King Menahem
King Rehoboam
Lystra
Oppressed and Robbed
Orpah
Pontius Pilate
Prison Guards
Queen Tahpenes
Roman Prison
Sabbath Breaker
Sisera
Stone Throwers
The Amalekits' Slave
The Assryian Spoilers
The Imperial Guard
The Jeering Youths
The Thief
Women as Snares

The Old Wording and Other Abilities

Ignore
Old wording for ignore, not relevant.
Cross Beams of the Cross
Eve
King David
Lot
Nabal
Nichodemus
Scarlet Line
Three Nails
Widow
Witnesses to Creation

Choose the Blocker
Old/different wording for CTB. Not relevant.
Asahel
Ehud
Jael
King Amaziah
Obedience of Noah
Provisions

Withdraw
Struck with Blindness

Withdraw and Present
Death of Firstborn
Lion Dwelling With the Calf

Other
Defiant
Interceding for Battle
Masquerading
Wings of Calamity

The Status Quo
These don't change or need clarification at all, and haven't been an issue.

"Blocker may..."
Boasting of Wisdom

"...a/all blocking Evil Character(s)..."
Visions
Zelophehad's Sin

"...blocker has/may..."
The Darkness
Weakness
Woman of Wisdom

"...successfully blocks..."/"If block is successful..."
Chief Captain Lysias
Fallen Warrior
King Ben-Hadad I
King Shishak
King Tiglath-Pileser III
Lot's Daughters

"...after block..."
King Zimri

"...from being forced to block..."
Kingdoms of the World

The Problem Children

These are the ones where the wording gets questioned most, but I think the definition handles them all. Basically, when an EC is placed in battle where no others are, then you "are blocked" for cards like The Throne of David. The hero(es) are considered to be "blocked by" ALL of the EC in battle, so Angel's Sword works no matter the order they enter.

"If blocked.../If opponent's X blocks.../If X is blocking.../When X is blocked..."
Angel's Sword
House in Bethany
I Am Love
Obadiah
Priests of Christ
Seraiah the High Priest
Spear and Shield
The Throne of David

"When/after blocker is presented..."
Same as "block" where it is only when an EC is put in battle where none is already to oppose hero(es).
Helmet of Brass
Eleazar, son of Aaron

Issue?

"Each time X blocks..."
This one may seem inconsistent, and to have a clear and concise definition that has TToD worded the way it is, this one may get ruled a different way. However, with the way that it is worded with "each time" we should be able to maintain the status quo.
Thorn in the Flesh

Given these different wordings and interactions, I propose the collaborative definition in the first post. Feel free to poke holes or tell me I messed up. I am very tired now.
Title: Re: The Block(ing)[s] Proposal
Post by: ChristianSoldier on September 16, 2014, 11:04:47 PM: So if this proposal goes through Throne of David, Angel's Sword and abilities like that can trigger multiple times in one battle if the blocking characters are removed and something like Unknown Nation brings another one in?
Title: Re: The Block(ing)[s] Proposal
Post by: Crashfach2002 on September 17, 2014, 06:58:16 AM: Quote from: ChristianSoldier on September 16, 2014, 11:04:47 PM
So if this proposal goes through Throne of David, Angel's Sword and abilities like that can trigger multiple times in one battle if the blocking characters are removed and something like Unknown Nation brings another one in?

That is what this proposal is trying to deal with. Some people think the wording should work again if I block, then use Unknown Nation, and so on, some people do not.
Title: Re: The Block(ing)[s] Proposal
Post by: browarod on September 17, 2014, 11:09:36 AM: I personally would prefer if "block" was a singular, one-time action as opposed to happening every time an EC enters battle against a Hero when there isn't one to limit the power of Angel's Sword/TToD/etc. as I feel offenses are already powerful enough.

That said, I value consistency even higher than I value my personal stance on "block" so I'd be in favor of the above definition/clarification, as it's clear and has specific examples/situations, if it means not having the uncertainty/weirdness we have now.

:2cents:
Title: Re: The Block(ing)[s] Proposal
Post by: jesse on September 17, 2014, 01:51:39 PM: I'm still a fairly new player, but as far as I can tell, Redoubter's definition is logical, clear, and straightforward. It's very helpful, and I support it! Thanks for your work in helping out the game and its players!