Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: JDS on August 17, 2010, 10:01:23 AM
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Thaddeus vs. Heretics: Can cards be protected from being protected?
Chariots of the Sun's "play as" (protect that Solomon's Temple from the protect ability of Glory of the Lord) leads me to believe yes.
Thaddeus vs. Sabbath Breaker: Can cards be protected from being drawn?
I can't really think of a precedent on that one.
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I like this post. maybe like a rock vs. rock situation? then both would work? dunno
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Thaddeus vs. Heretics: Can cards be protected from being protected?
Yes, Heretics could not target the LS since it's protected.
Thaddeus vs. Sabbath Breaker: Can cards be protected from being drawn?
I think this is still in discussion as it's also related to JT being changed to a protect. My opinion is that decks will not be protected from draw but we'll see.
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Makes sense. Even with rock vs rock, cards can be protected from protection (a character can't become immune to a character that's already ignoring it).
The main question is about the drawing. Decks have been protected from search abilities before, but never draw abilities to my knowledge.
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I think this is still in discussion as it's also related to JT being changed to a protect. My opinion is that decks will not be protected from draw but we'll see.
J Tower already changed, and it's not a protect:
Jerusalem Tower (Pa)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled. • Play As: Restrict opponents' from removing cards from holder’s deck. Deck may still be searched, revealed, and/or shuffled. • Identifiers: Play to territory. • Verse: Nehemiah 12:38 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)
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What does that even mean? Do we have a classification for restrict?
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Hey,
What does that even mean? Do we have a classification for restrict?
http://www.freewebs.com/redemptionne/AlmanacofSpecialAbilities%5B2010-01-02%5D.pdf (http://www.freewebs.com/redemptionne/AlmanacofSpecialAbilities%5B2010-01-02%5D.pdf)
Page 33.
Restrict is a new ability in the REG designed to address/encompass cards that were previously categorized as prevent abilities but didn't target abilities. You prevent abilities. You restrict game actions. That's the idea.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Alex, think along the lines of Darius's Decree. It restricts a player from playing good enhancements.
I personally like the idea a lot. Makes more sense to me.
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That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Alex, think along the lines of Darius's Decree. It restricts a player from playing good enhancements.
I personally like the idea a lot. Makes more sense to me.
I simply didn't understand the significance of the key phrase. I understood what it meant, but I didn't know it's significance in the rules.
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I take it dominants cannot be restricted?
Is there a way around restrict without negating Jtower I.E. a CBN confusion.
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I would imagine you could restrict the playing of a dominant, you just cant negate one. (you can instead it though, which essentially negates it....)
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I think Restrict actually would stop Dominants/CBN abilities just like Protect can. It's not trying to negate the Dominant, it's just not allowing the Dominant to take effect in a restricted way.
So I'm not 100% sure, and Restrict is still under construction as an ability, but I would think JTower would now be able to stop Harvest Time, Seeker, and Woman at the Well.
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If JTower gets a restrict for removal, then Hezekiah's Signet Ring should restrict opponents from searching decks or discard piles...why is the play as a prevent??? The SA is the exact same wording...why different Play As?
Hezekiah's Signet Ring (Ki)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile. • Play As: Prevent opponents from searching any deck or discard pile
Jerusalem Tower (Pa)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled.
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If JTower gets a restrict for removal, then Hezekiah's Signet Ring should restrict opponents from searching decks or discard piles...why is the play as a prevent??? The SA is the exact same wording...why different Play As?
Hezekiah's Signet Ring (Ki)
Type: Artifact Brigade: None Ability: None Class: None Special Ability: No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile. Play As: Prevent opponents from searching any deck or discard pile
Jerusalem Tower (Pa)
Type: Fortress Brigade: None Ability: None Class: None Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled.
No one likes Hezekiah's Signet Ring.
Also, that would be consistant which aparently isn't the goal of redemption.
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If JTower gets a restrict for removal, then Hezekiah's Signet Ring should restrict opponents from searching decks or discard piles...why is the play as a prevent??? The SA is the exact same wording...why different Play As?
Hezekiah's Signet Ring (Ki)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile. • Play As: Prevent opponents from searching any deck or discard pile
Jerusalem Tower (Pa)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled.
I'm sure that the Play As for HSR just wasn't updated yet. I would think that it will be treated as a Restrict ability in the future, given the fact that it is limiting a game action.
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Every time I faced a prophets deck during Type 2, it made me more annoyed that we have this difference...I should not have to include both DD and Hez's Ring in my deck to stop this playstyle...
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Wool Fleece (Pa)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No Evil Characters may band • Play As: Evil Characters are prevented from banding.
Household Idols (Ap)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Heroes may not band. Good banding cards have no effect. • Play As: Prevent band abilities of Heroes. Ignore good banding cards
More examples
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I'm sure that the Play As for HSR just wasn't updated yet. I would think that it will be treated as a Restrict ability in the future, given the fact that it is limiting a game action.
That's at least a little more comforting...*still thinks we should have 3 basic abilities like the old rock, paper, scissors days...an ability that restricts, a way to get around the restrictions, and a way to do everything else so long that it cannot is restricted...I think I'm jumping on the consistency bandwagon...
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I'm sure that the Play As for HSR just wasn't updated yet. I would think that it will be treated as a Restrict ability in the future, given the fact that it is limiting a game action.
That's at least a little more comforting...*still thinks we should have 3 basic abilities like the old rock, paper, scissors days...an ability that restricts, a way to get around the restrictions, and a way to do everything else so long that it cannot is restricted...I think I'm jumping on the consistency bandwagon...
There are about 8 abilites now, Regardless, Ignore, Immune, Cannot Be Negated, Negate, Instead, Restrict, Protect.
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Wool Fleece (Pa)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No Evil Characters may band • Play As: Evil Characters are prevented from banding.
Household Idols (Ap)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Heroes may not band. Good banding cards have no effect. • Play As: Prevent band abilities of Heroes. Ignore good banding cards
More examples
Those are both preventing Abilities, not stopping player's actions. Characters and Enhancement abilities can be prevented, but player actions are restricted. That is, prevent targets the abilties, restrict targets the player(s).
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That makes sense, :-[ I was hoping Wool Fleece would finally see play.
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Can Evil Characters also be protected from protection, like could immune abilities activate against Thaddeus?
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Hey,
...*still thinks we should have 3 basic abilities like the old rock, paper, scissors days...
You forgot Lizard and Spock. :D
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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By the "restrict" wording on JT, does that stop the defender from drawing against The Generous Widow ("All players discard two cards from hand and draw two cards. Cannot be negated.")?
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By the "restrict" wording on JT, does that stop the defender from drawing against The Generous Widow ("All players discard two cards from hand and draw two cards. Cannot be negated.")?
If it did, it would also stop the draw on Mayhem.
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so the answer to this is that forced drawing is not stopped by JT, b/c the opponent isnt removing the cards- the drawer is?