Author Topic: Sword vs Gitc (Read 6003 times)

TheHobbit13 · « **on:** March 02, 2009, 07:06:36 PM »

If I rescue with Michael equipped with angels sword and my opponent blocks with a warrior class (human) EC, if he Going into captivity activated can he use that before I play first?

I can see this ruling going both ways but I would be inclined to think that Michael would play have the right to play first. However I was told by Bryon Hake ( two nationals ago) that you could capture the character before Michael could play enhancemet.

SirNobody · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2009, 07:18:46 PM »

Hey,

You can use Go Into Captivity before your opponent can use Angel's Sword. Both Angel's Sword and Go Into Captivity are a response to the evil character entering battle, and using an artifact takes precedence over playing an enhancement.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2009, 07:32:03 PM »

Uhhh Im not quite sure that is right. Don't all pending( A sword) abilities have to resolve previous to using a triggered ability(GIC)?

MichaelHue · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2009, 07:53:38 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on March 02, 2009, 07:18:46 PM

Hey,

You can use Go Into Captivity before your opponent can use Angel's Sword. Both Angel's Sword and Go Into Captivity are a response to the evil character entering battle, and using an artifact takes precedence over playing an enhancement.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Don't you also think that Two Thousand Horses on The Rabshekeh should trump Michael with Angel's Sword?

Artifacts don't interrupt. If I make a rescue with Ethiopian Treasurer, I get to play an enhancement before my opponent can use Unholy Writ. If Angel's Sword's ability activates and is not negated, when the blocker enters battle the rescuing player gets to play an enhancement. As far as I know artifacts and enhancements are treated no differently in determining the order that abilities are completed.

SirNobody · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:39:10 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 02, 2009, 07:32:03 PM

Uhhh Im not quite sure that is right. Don't all pending( A sword) abilities have to resolve previous to using a triggered ability(GIC)?

The ability to play an enhancement with Angel's Sword is a triggered ability not a pending ability. It is triggered by a human evil character blocking.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2009, 09:45:51 PM »

Quote from: MichaelHue on March 02, 2009, 07:53:38 PM

Don't you also think that Two Thousand Horses on The Rabshekeh should trump Michael with Angel's Sword?

That's different; Angel's Sword is CBN on Michael.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2009, 10:13:15 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on March 02, 2009, 08:39:10 PM

Hey,

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 02, 2009, 07:32:03 PM
Uhhh Im not quite sure that is right. Don't all pending( A sword) abilities have to resolve previous to using a triggered ability(GIC)?

The ability to play an enhancement with Angel's Sword is a triggered ability not a pending ability. It is triggered by a human evil character blocking.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Still the moment a human's s.a. blocks it activates, not allowing time for another trigger. Unless I can play doms before angel's sword triggers :-p

SirNobody · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2009, 12:02:41 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 02, 2009, 10:13:15 PM

Still the moment a human's s.a. blocks it activates, not allowing time for another trigger. Unless I can play doms before angel's sword triggers :-p

Angel's Sword and Go Into Captivity are triggered by the same event. Why shouldn't Go Into Captivity have the first chance to be carried out?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:42:39 AM »

Quote from: SirNobody on March 03, 2009, 12:02:41 AM

Angel's Sword and Go Into Captivity are triggered by the same event. Why shouldn't Go Into Captivity have the first chance to be carried out?

Especially given that GiC was (by definition) active before Angel's Sword.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:36:59 PM »

I think it makes sense that triggered abilities should be activated in order of proximity to the trigger.

In other words, since both Angel's Sword and Go Into Captivity are triggered by the entrance of an EC to battle, then Angel's Sword should get the opportunity to be triggered first. This is for 2 reasons.

#1 - because the sword is in battle, it would "see" the evil character entering before the art would (due to distance and the speed of light)

#2 - more importantly, because if we don't have a set rule for these sorts of things, then we put more "slapjack" into the game, and everyone HATES "slapjack"

TimMierz · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:38:16 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on March 03, 2009, 01:36:59 PM

it would "see" the evil character entering before the art would (due to distance and the speed of light)

But what if you're set up California-style, or worse yet, Minnesota-style?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:03:51 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on March 03, 2009, 01:38:16 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on March 03, 2009, 01:36:59 PM
it would "see" the evil character entering before the art would (due to distance and the speed of light)
But what if you're set up California-style, or worse yet, Minnesota-style?

Good point that set-up styles would affect this. In this case one card is in battle with the EC entering and the other isn't, so playing style doesn't matter. However, in general, I suppose that the official set-up in the rulebook would have to be used

crustpope · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:12:46 PM »

I respectfully disagree with my friend the Prof. I think that the "initiative" to play or respond to a stimulus (such as an EC entering battle) should go to the item that was activated first. Since GitC was up before Angels sword, I say that GitC gets the initiative to respond to the stimulus.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:14:58 PM »

Although I still like the "proximity priority" idea. I would also be fine with Crustpope's "temporally triggered" idea. The most important thing to me is that we have a set order and eliminate "slapjack".

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:23:51 PM »

Even though angel is a triggered ability it doesn't have to be triggered manually (Discarding Gic).
I'm just failing to see the difference between a dom being played before an ability completes or an artifact.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:25:05 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 03, 2009, 04:23:51 PM

Even though angel is a triggered ability it doesn't have to be triggered manually (Discarding Gic).
I'm just failing to see the difference between a dom being played before an ability completes or an artifact.

The difference is that a dominant isn't triggered by the EC entering battle, whereas both GiC (for a WC EC) and AS are. There's really nothing more to it than that.

So you have two items that are triggered by the same event, and you have to make an arbitrary ruling as to which wins. In this case, I would prefer it to be GiC for reasons of simple fairness and because the basis is easier to explain to new players. GiC was active first, so it gets to go first.

MichaelHue · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:40:50 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 03, 2009, 06:25:05 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 03, 2009, 04:23:51 PM
Even though angel is a triggered ability it doesn't have to be triggered manually (Discarding Gic).
I'm just failing to see the difference between a dom being played before an ability completes or an artifact.
The difference is that a dominant isn't triggered by the EC entering battle, whereas both GiC (for a WC EC) and AS are. There's really nothing more to it than that.

So you have two items that are triggered by the same event, and you have to make an arbitrary ruling as to which wins. In this case, I would prefer it to be GiC for reasons of simple fairness and because the basis is easier to explain to new players. GiC was active first, so it gets to go first.

Angel's Sword is triggered by a human EC entering battle, but GiC becomes able to be triggered by a warrior-class EC being in battle. It seems to me that the action of blocking (placing the EC in battle) is what triggers AS, while GiC is not used at any particular time in battle, just while a WC EC is in battle. These seem like two different requirements to me, but others may not agree.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:01:15 PM »

I completely agree, and now notice my dom compairison is wrong.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:25:53 PM »

Quote from: MichaelHue on March 03, 2009, 06:40:50 PM

Angel's Sword is triggered by a human EC entering battle, but GiC becomes able to be triggered by a warrior-class EC being in battle. It seems to me that the action of blocking (placing the EC in battle) is what triggers AS, while GiC is not used at any particular time in battle, just while a WC EC is in battle. These seem like two different requirements to me, but others may not agree.

FWIW, I do not see the distinction that you see, even though I know what you mean. Both are optional actions that are triggered by the same general condition - your opponent has a (WC) blocker.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:31:23 PM »

YMT.

There are 2 abilities active; "(may) Play enhancement" and "(may) Discard to Capture." Both have a prerequisite which, in this scenario, is met at the same time. Then all triggered abilities should be carried out in the order they were activated, which in this scenario would be GiC and then AS.

crustpope · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2009, 08:09:03 AM »

With (myself and) the others. I think that the person with GitC should at least be given the option to trigger their art before michael plays the first enhancement since GitC was up first (assuming it was). Emjaybee makes a great point that it is easier to explain to noobs that "first come, first served" works in this instance.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2009, 08:44:57 AM »

Because like e.t. abilities need to complete before triggering others but eh looks like I'm wrong again. Oh wells.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #22 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:01:40 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 04, 2009, 08:44:57 AM

Because like e.t. abilities need to complete before triggering others but eh looks like I'm wrong again. Oh wells.

e.t. doesn't have a condition to complete.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #23 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:14:48 AM »

No it doesn't. But why can UW not hit ET pre him playing (uw requires a hero in battle) but GITC Can? Maybe I'm just not getting this but I thought if someone had init by s.a. it had to complete before other abilities (even ones that have the same trigger) happened.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #24 on:** March 04, 2009, 11:23:45 AM »

GiC can't hit ET before he plays, because ET plays his Enhancement before the EC blocks. Also, UW is not a triggered ability.

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Author Topic: Sword vs Gitc (Read 6003 times)

TheHobbit13

Warrior_Monk