Author Topic: Sites and Lost Souls (Read 9700 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #100 on:** October 15, 2010, 02:28:10 PM »

Quote from: browarod on October 15, 2010, 01:41:45 PM

It's not completely useless as a protect, in fact it's completely overpowered if it ISN'T a protect. The way you guys want to rule it, not only does it interrupt without interrupting, it negates without negating. My "Ignore you. CBN" enhancement is, effectively, negated by you putting a skull icon card on Golgotha. Protection at least follows the rules of "if you don't interrupt/negate it then you can't undo/protect/save your character from it" whereas Golgotha, the way you're saying it should be treated, gets around any and every ignore card, regardless of wording, usage, or initiative. That seems far too OP to me.

Yes, it is completely useless as a protect, because then CBIgnored does NOTHING against preblock ignore, which is the entire REASON it was developed.

I mean, probably 90% of the time ignore is used, its used pre-block to stop people from entering battle. If CBIgnored is a protect, then its only useful 10% of the time.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #101 on:** October 15, 2010, 02:44:51 PM »

Sure it is - CBIg is still effective, it's just Golgatha that is less so - Haman's Gallows, Large Tree, Hating the Light, Wolves in Sheeps clothing, all cards that can be active before TGT/Other pre-block ignore, and stop it quite well.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #102 on:** October 15, 2010, 02:48:09 PM »

So you want only Persians, Kings, Heretics, and one other EC per deck to be able to block PBIg, the worst bight this game has ever suffered?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #103 on:** October 15, 2010, 02:49:03 PM »

You're missing my point.

CBIgnored flat out does not WORK as a protect. Period.

Protect stops cards from being targeted, the "keep out of battle" part of Ignore doesn't even TARGET characters. You cannot protect from that part of the ability, at all.

This is the same principle as CBN. You can't protect from a negate, so therefore, CBN is SIMILAR to a protect, but it is not actually classified as a protect, it's its own ability.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #104 on:** October 15, 2010, 02:58:16 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 15, 2010, 02:48:09 PM

So you want only Persians, Kings, Heretics, and one other EC per deck to be able to block PBIg, the worst bight this game has ever suffered?

Sounds good to me

King Mannywood and Persians rock.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #105 on:** October 15, 2010, 03:07:46 PM »

Have fun being a minority. We'll be over here chilling in the gated community of correctness B)

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #106 on:** October 15, 2010, 07:21:07 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 15, 2010, 02:23:29 PM

Want to use an Ignore battle-winner? (none of them are CBN, btw) See Golgotha in opponent's territory? Just use the best card in Di before attacking.

I Am Truth (AW)
Type: Covenant • Brigade: White • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Good enhancements with "ignore" in the special ability cannot be negated by evil cards. • Identifiers: None • Verse: John 14:6 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Common)

Burning Incense (Pi)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal • Ability: 1 / 1 • Class: None • Special Ability: All Heroes ignore an evil brigade of holder’s choice. Cannot be negated if Altar of Incense is active. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Luke 1:9 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)

browarod · « **Reply #107 on:** October 15, 2010, 10:19:55 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 15, 2010, 02:23:29 PM

Want to use an Ignore battle-winner? (none of them are CBN, btw) See Golgotha in opponent's territory? Just use the best card in Di before attacking.

Because nobody runs Golgotha and CP together....

I'm not saying that Ignore doesn't need more counters, but Golgotha as you want it completely neutralizes Ignore as a special ability. No other abilities have such a broad and complete counter, it doesn't seem fair to do so to Ignore just because, in your opinion, it's too powerful.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #108 on:** October 15, 2010, 10:47:42 PM »

Well ignore was by far the #1 most complained about thing before this set, so they made an incredibly powerful counter for it.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #109 on:** October 15, 2010, 10:49:51 PM »

PREBLOCK ignore was what was complained about. No need to kill a major strategy of two different ~~brigades~~ themes.

Master KChief · « **Reply #110 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:16:44 PM »

agree, i'd hate to see in-battle ignore neutered as well. some offensive strats rely on it (nt gold, ot royalty).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #111 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:19:58 PM »

NT Gold relies on Ignore?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #112 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:20:44 PM »

Yes, NT gold. You'd know how much it rocks if you'd play something other than your tgt silly boy.

browarod · « **Reply #113 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:21:05 PM »

In all honesty, the only reason I don't think Golgotha works in battle is because it doesn't interrupt/negate. It can be an ability in it's own universe for all I care, but if it doesn't interrupt/negate, it shouldn't be able to undo an ignore played before it (or if the card is removed after the ignore is played) in battle. Call it a protect, don't call it a protect, doesn't matter to me.

Master KChief · « **Reply #114 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:23:30 PM »

<3 good samaritan/kindness/i am truth

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #115 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:24:28 PM »

I wouldn't say NT Gold relies on Ignore like Royalty does.

Bryon · « **Reply #116 on:** October 16, 2010, 12:53:37 AM »

Quote from: browarod on October 15, 2010, 11:21:05 PM

the only reason I don't think Golgotha works in battle is because it doesn't interrupt/negate. It can be an ability in it's own universe for all I care, but if it doesn't interrupt/negate, it shouldn't be able to undo an ignore played before it (or if the card is removed after the ignore is played) in battle. Call it a protect, don't call it a protect, doesn't matter to me.

Does CBN interrupt an ongoing "negate all special abilities" effect? No. CBN abilities just work, and continues to work, in spite of the ongoing negate.

Does CBI interrupt the ignore and insert the ability? No. It just allows someone to block, or continue to block, in spite of an ongoing Ignore.

"Cannot be Ignored" is not a protect. It will not be treated as a protect. It is its OWN ability, just like CBN, CBP, and CBI.

CBI does not interrupt an ignore ability, and it doesn't need to. Let's say you ignore all gold evil characters, and I have 6 Egyptians and 1 Herod in my territory, and I have Golgatha active. Golgatha is not interupting or negating or preventing your Ignore ability in any way. It is not prtecting any of my characters from that effect. All Golgatha does is allow my Herod to block regardless of the ongoing ignore ability, and to continue to block as if that ability were not there. But that ignore ability is still there, and mmy Egyptians still can't enter battle.

It is the same thing with CBN. If you attack with Strong Angel, and I block with King Zed, You still prevent all special abilities on all of my enhancement. My cards do not interrupt your ongoing negate, but Dungeon of Malchiah just works regardless of the fact that special abilities on all other enhancements are prevented.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #117 on:** October 16, 2010, 10:25:29 AM »

We need to come up with better initials for CBIgnored. CBInterrupted had those first.
HT needs some too...all of them.

browarod · « **Reply #118 on:** October 17, 2010, 11:30:30 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on October 16, 2010, 12:53:37 AM

"Cannot be Ignored" is not a protect. It will not be treated as a protect. It is its OWN ability, just like CBN, CBP, and CBI.

And yet CBN acts like a protect. It limits the targets for a negate ability. How exactly is that not a protect?

EDIT: Also, I re-submit the precedence of Faith in Our High Priest. It does not retroactively grant CBN status to enhancements undone before it, I don't see why CBIg does if it's the same kind of aiblity as CBN.

Bryon · « **Reply #119 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:01:39 AM »

CBN does not act like a protect. CBN is scissors. Protect is rock. Negate is paper.

Rock beats scissors: You can protect against a CBN ability

Scissors beats paper: you can use a CBN in spite of ongoing negates and prevents

Paper beats rock: you can negate a protect ability

If CBN were a protect ability, then it could be negated.

CBNegated does NOT protect against Negates. They just work in spite of negates.
CBPrevented does NOT protect against Prevents. They just work in spite of prevents.
CBIgnored does NOT protect against Ignores. They just work in spite of ignores.

When a special ability is activated, it either has CBN status or not. It cannot gain that ability retroactively. This rule was implemented to prevent loops of negates. No such loops can happen as a result of a CBIgnored ability activating mid-battle, that I can see. Is there some loop possibility that I am not seeing?

browarod · « **Reply #120 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:07:31 AM »

Quote from: Bryon on October 18, 2010, 12:01:39 AM

No such loops can happen as a result of a CBIgnored ability activating mid-battle, that I can see. Is there some loop possibility that I am not seeing?

I would think the complete neutralization of ignore as a special ability makes just as much of a negative impact as endless loops to warrant a special ruling. Why did you even make the ignore ability just to effectively remove it later on?

In-battle ignores are not overpowered, nor anywhere close to unstoppable, that I can see. Is there some OP possibility that I am not seeing?

The Guardian · « **Reply #121 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:28:58 AM »

Locked for further review by Elders.

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Author Topic: Sites and Lost Souls (Read 9700 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod

Lamborghini_diablo

Rawrlolsauce!

Rawrlolsauce!

browarod

Warrior_Monk

browarod

browarod