Author Topic: Simultaneous triggers conflicting (Read 13434 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #75 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:33:01 PM »

I accept your challenge.

I see the "If blocking" segment of the ability to simply mean "if this evil character is entering battle against a hero" as to stop the ability from activating in EC-EC side battles. Same goes for Women as Snares.

TimMierz · « **Reply #76 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:43:18 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 10, 2009, 12:28:28 PM

L Diablo, I understand and agree with you, but let me ask you how you would deal with the following under this framework...

The Amalekites' Slave SA If blocking, you may place this card in opponent's Land of Bondage to search your deck for a human Evil Character and add it to the battle.

What happens if you put a hero into battle and I play TAS? If I'm not officially blocking until TAS's SA completes, then how can TAS ever move itself to your opponent's Land of Bondage? So the steps are TAS enters battle and his SA activates before TAS is officially blocking. Thus, no one is blocking when you do the "if blocking" trigger check. Wouldn't that mean that TAS's SA would just fizzle at that point?

Rulebook:
Your opponent must decide whether to block your rescue attempt or battle challenge. If your opponent chooses to block, he should place an Evil Character into the Field of Battle to fight your Hero. This Evil Character can come from his territory or his hand. Some Evil Characters have a special ability printed over the picture on the card. This special ability does not become active until the Evil Character enters battle. Once the Evil Character enters battle, the special ability is activated. The instructions on the card must be applied at that moment.

Blocking is the attempt to prevent a rescue. Only Evil Characters may block. Placing an Evil Character into the Field of Battle constitutes blocking.

--

Situation: Michael with Angel's Sword enters battle. The defender intends to use The Amalakites' Slave.
1) The defender puts TAS into battle. Since "placing an Evil Character into the Field of Battle constitutes blocking," TAS is now blocking.
2) "Once the Evil Character enters battle, the special ability is activated." This is intrinsically linked to the action of blocking - nothing, even triggered abilities like Angel's Sword - can go in between these two events.*
3) The special ability on TAS activates. "If blocking..." is checked. According to Step 1 above, TAS is blocking, so it does its capture/search/re-block deal.
4) The new EC enters battle, and its special ability is activated as above.
5) Angel's Sword is now able to switch initiative to Michael to play an enhancement, since blocking and the game action associated with it are completed.

*I see that this might be the "weak link" in explaining the original dilemma. My only possible response is that game actions like this cannot be superseded.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #77 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:51:33 PM »

*edit* nevermind

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #78 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:55:03 PM »

Ahh, sorry. I saw Angels Sword before i did TAS, and assumed it was against the AS ruling.

lack of reading on my part ftl.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #79 on:** April 10, 2009, 02:32:19 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on April 10, 2009, 11:46:04 AM

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on April 10, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
When you place a character in battle he is in battle , This meets all of the requirements of AS therefore it trigers. However before you can play first you have to wait for all abilities to completed. Tkh interrupts the battle draws two cards and attempts to play the next enhancement but cannot because the ability to play the first enhancement cannot be negated because it was played on Michael . This is why I agree with Maly. This is straight from the REG.

"Blocking is the attempt to prevent a rescue. Only Evil Characters may block. Placing an Evil Character into the Field of Battle constitutes blocking."

http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/

You seem to be forgetting that character abilities activate the INSTANT a character enters battle. Both happen at the same time. There is nothing "logical" about Angels Sword breaking all normal rules and INSERTING itself into the actions of entering battle.

Basicly, the EC has not "entered battle" to trigger Angels Sword until his abilities have completed, therefore angels sword can not possibly play before any of the 5 steps of the Order of Operations.

If you have a logical explanation for why this should not be the case, having considered that ECs are not in battle until their abilities activate, I would love to hear it.

You seem to forget that blocking is a game action and therefore triggered when the evil character enters battle, AS doesn't cut of the enhancements ability or the characters it simple waits within the rules for an attempt to play the first enhancement. You cant activate your ability withought entering battle so the character has to enter battle. Michael would get to play first because AS ability does not insert itself the condition of "if blocked by a human evil character" is simple met. There for you can play after all the abilities completed. Keep in mind the card says if not when, when would be a intruding ability if isn't . The phrase "If blocked" simply assumes that you play the first enhancement when the rules allow it, which does not interrupt ointrude anything.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #80 on:** April 10, 2009, 02:36:51 PM »

Exactly, It has to wait for the legal time to play it, which is after the EC's abilities activate.

If what you describe is the case, then I could CM your ET before you get a chance to play AoCP.

Scottie_ffgamer · « **Reply #81 on:** April 11, 2009, 01:02:53 AM »

@TheHobbit13

Quote from: Bryon

Any time you see "play first enhancement" or "play next enhancement", it ONLY means "play an enhancement."

AS is not trying to "play the first enhancement" anymore. It's now considered to be giving the chance to "play an enhancement." The point already made long ago is that the WC enh on an EC happens as consecutively and actually intertwined with the SA of the character itself. It makes NO sense to allow AS to play an enh half way thru the SA of a character...but letting it play before something like 2kh is doing exactly that. Is that so hard to see?

Mageduckey · « **Reply #82 on:** April 12, 2009, 05:00:10 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on April 09, 2009, 11:15:11 AM

I would think that between mid-March and the very end of July, there's enough time to adjust.

Just thought this was funny - he posted this post almost in the middle of April.

Also, YMT/Count, I am in desperate need of a Michael/AS combination. Would it be possible for me to get one of each (and then YMT gets the rest). Thanks!

TimMierz · « **Reply #83 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:25:54 PM »

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 12, 2009, 05:00:10 PM

Quote from: TimMierz on April 09, 2009, 11:15:11 AM
I would think that between mid-March and the very end of July, there's enough time to adjust.

Just thought this was funny - he posted this post almost in the middle of April.

The decision was made in mid-March. But no one cared (or at least caused a ruckus) until earlier on the day I posted that message.

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Author Topic: Simultaneous triggers conflicting (Read 13434 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

TimMierz

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

Lamborghini_diablo

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

Lamborghini_diablo

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

TheHobbit13

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

Lamborghini_diablo

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

Scottie_ffgamer

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

Mageduckey

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting

TimMierz

Re: Simultaneous triggers conflicting