Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Gabe on September 11, 2010, 04:15:32 PM
-
If my Simon the Zealot's ability is active can an opponent's Grapes shuffle my Hero into my deck?
Grapes of Wrath (TP)
Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle.
Simon the Zealot (Di)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Red/Purple • Ability: 7 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate and discard Rome and a N.T. Idol. First Strike. Protect your hand and deck from opponents' cards while this Hero remains in play.
-
If my Simon the Zealot's ability is active can an opponent's Grapes shuffle my Hero into my deck?
Grapes of Wrath (TP)
Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle.
Simon the Zealot (Di)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Red/Purple • Ability: 7 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate and discard Rome and a N.T. Idol. First Strike. Protect your hand and deck from opponents' cards while this Hero remains in play.
I would assume so but I'm no expert.
Is your hero in your hand or your deck?
No.
So...
-
Yes.
-
Yes.
I agree.
-
i guess i will agree to
-
Can someone explain why? Beings Bryon says so, its pretty official, but I have no idea.....
I understand that your noob hero wouldn't be protected from shuffle, but doesn't protecting your deck stop your opponent from messing with it...?
-
stops them from targetting it there targetting the hero which goes to the deck there not specifically targetting the deck so it works at least thats the way i understand it
-
The Deck is targeted though, it says on the card, Grapes has 3 targets, the card is discards, the remaining characters, and the deck into which they are shuffled, all three are listed on the card.
Picture your protected deck like its surrounded by a soap bubble, that's what the protect is, the bubble, you can't take anything out of it, you also can't put anything in from the outside. Protect goes both ways.
-
+1 with RDT. If I had to make some sort of l33t ruling I'd say that the evil card was discarded, all opponent's characters are shuffled, and the hero would be left in battle and would require a CM, Writ, etc etc.
What would really confuse me then is starting a new battle if allowed.... the first battle hasn't ended.
-
lol well all i gotta say is hooray for satans seat
-
I'm interested to hear an explanation also. I'm not clear how Grapes can shuffle a card into my protected deck.
-
Maybe since it can't be shuffled into your protected, it would instead be shuffled into your opponents deck :p
-
This is my initial ruling:
Its not targeting your deck . Its targeting the evil card and any other characters in battle. Stating the characters go to deck when shuffled is just clarification. When any card is shuffled, by default, it is shuffled into deck.
However, I found out that the REG instead classifies any card being shuffled into draw pile, returned to the top, or bottom of draw pile to be categorized as a return to draw pile ability.
Instant Special Abilities > Return to Draw Pile
General Description
This special ability refers to cards that must be returned to a draw pile. This category includes cards shuffled into the draw pile, returned to the top of the draw pile, and placed beneath owner's draw pile. This category does not include shuffling a draw pile after a search special ability (see Search, Reveal, or Exchange).
I have fought myself over this question:
Is the draw pile being targeted in this example? If the answer is yes, then that drawpile is protected from any special ability that would target it. Does that mean that Simeon the Zealot is indirectly protected from returning to that protected drawpile? What happens if both players have Simeon the Zealots ongoing protection? Does that mean any EC in battle not targeted for discard when Grapes of Wrath is played is also protected from returning to the respective owners drawpile?
Lets read the ability again:
Grapes of Wrath (TP)
Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle. • Play As: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle [return] all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Revelation 19:15 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
Im just not sure that the deck is being targeted in this example.
-
Hey,
Shuffle (or return to draw pile) targets the cards that are returned (the characters in battle) not the deck.
This is similar to how "Capture any hero and place it in opponent's land of bondage" doesn't target the opponent's land of bondage. Or how "immune to Red Heroes" doesn't target Red Heroes.
In the case of shuffle abilities the deck it is shuffled into is a destination, destinations are not targeted so protect abilities do not affect them.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
-
ty thats pretty much what i said