Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: browarod on December 10, 2009, 06:40:33 PM
-
If my opponent draws the Shame LS but has no heroes, can he still set aside one of mine?
Jeremiah 3:25 ('shame')
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: When you draw this card, you may set aside a Hero from each territory for two turns. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Jeremiah 3:25 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 15)
-
Yes. In fact, I have heard it ruled (because of the word "may") that he could set aside yours and not his, even if he did have a hero in territory.
-
ymt is correct.
-
Hey,
Yes. In fact, I have heard it ruled (because of the word "may") that he could set aside yours and not his, even if he did have a hero in territory.
That was the initial impression by many, but the PTB have discussed it and come to the conclusion that the shame lost soul has one ability, not one ability per player. As a result the "may" allows you to choose to do all of the ability or none of the ability, but you cannot choose to set-aside fewer than the specified number of heroes (just like you cannot choose to discard two characters with Haman's Plot when there is a third character that is a valid target).
This recognition that "may" gives you an all or nothing choice and not a as-many-as-you-choose choice (which technically has been the rule all along we have just done a poor job of consistently implementing it) also means that when banding Sadducees or Pharisees you must band all that are available or band none of them.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
-
wow, this is news to all of us.
-
Does this mean that the 'may' on Reach of Desperation and Words no longer allows you to choose which of the 3 abilites you're doing?
-
it would appear so. all or nothing.
-
but you cannot choose to set-aside fewer than the specified number of heroes
Is the specified number "one for each territory"?
when banding Sadducees or Pharisees you must band all that are available or band none of them.
Does that go for Panic Demons and Obsidian Minions as well?
it would appear so. all or nothing.
I don't think that's what Tim is saying. I think he means that specifically the Shame LS's ability is one ability, so that's how to interpret the may on it, not necessarily all cards with "may".
-
Hey,
Does this mean that the 'may' on Reach of Desperation and Words no longer allows you to choose which of the 3 abilites you're doing?
No. Reach of Desperation and Words have 3 separate abilities. The shame lost soul only has one ability. The may applies to each ability. Does that explain the difference?
but you cannot choose to set-aside fewer than the specified number of heroes
Is the specified number "one for each territory"?
Correct.
when banding Sadducees or Pharisees you must band all that are available or band none of them.
Does that go for Panic Demons and Obsidian Minions as well?
No. Panic Demon and Obsidian Minion each band to one more Panic Demon or Obsidian Minion. So the first bands to the second, the second bands to the third, the third bands to the fourth, until you choose not to use the banding ability of the last panic demon or obsidian minion you want in battle. Sadducees on the other hand band to all Sadducees, so the first Sadducee is doing all of the banding and the rest are just tagging along for the ride.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
-
Sadducees on the other hand band to all Sadducees, so the first Sadducee is doing all of the banding and the rest are just tagging along for the ride.
But you're saying that if I block with one of the 1/3 guys, I have to choose to band all Sadducees in play, or none? So I can't select just two of the small guys to block without bringing in the High Priests from my territory in too, correct?
-
That's what it sounds like..... :(
-
Do you have to take them all from your hand, also?
-
Do you have to take them all from your hand, also?
Your hand isn't in play, so I would guess not as "all Sadducees" would default (since it doesn't specify otherwise) to "all Sadducees (in play)".
-
Do you have to take them all from your hand, also?
Your hand isn't in play, so I would guess not as "all Sadducees" would default (since it doesn't specify otherwise) to "all Sadducees (in play)".
In that case, you couldnt band to a character in your hand with ANY ability unless it says so, yet many banding cards can.
-
Right, but in those cases it doesn't say "all" so the entire effect is "do as much as you want" whereas the Sadducees (apparently) are "do all or nothing" and "all" by game rule defaults to in play unless otherwise specified.
I would say that you have to band all Sadducees/Pharisees in play, due to the "all", but then you have the option to band any additional ones from your hand after that. That is what I'm understanding from this discussion.
-
Isn't the default for banding different in the rules?
-
I don't know if this helps, but I found a REG quote about the Sadducees:
Example – Optional special abilities
Your opponent blocks with Sadducees who has the special ability, “May band to all Sadducees.” Since the special ability includes the word “may,” your opponent has the choice (assuming there is one or more Sadducees in the Field of Play or your opponent’s hand) to band to all available Evil Characters in the Sadducees category or not to band. However, your opponent must decide at this moment. He may not use Sadducees special ability later in the battle.
I don't know if this resolves the "from hand" question, but it seems to answer the "all or some" question.
EDIT: Found this, too:
Instant Abilities > Band
Default Conditions
• Banding cards that say “from your hand” mean add from your hand, those that say “in play” mean band from a territory, and those that have no specific indicator can be either.
Not sure what to make of it.....
-
so does that also mean all of the 1/3 Sadducees can band in all of the larger number Sadducees who dont have banding abilities, such as High Priest Caiaphas, High Priest Ananias, and Captain of the Temple Guard, into battle at once too? I always thought "all" on the Sadducees was referring to the ability to band to all kinds of Sadducees, not just the 1/3 Sadducees that have Sadducee in the title.
-
That has always been the case. The only difference being presented is that you must band them in, not pick and choose which ones.
-
Any chance we can get an official ruling on the banding issue?
-
Any chance we can get an official ruling on the banding issue?
The ruling was official. What is your question?
-
Hey,
I would say that you have to band all Sadducees/Pharisees in play, due to the "all", but then you have the option to band any additional ones from your hand after that. That is what I'm understanding from this discussion.
This is correct.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
-
Any chance we can get an official ruling on the banding issue?
The ruling was official. What is your question?
It was O_o? So you can't band just 2 Sads into battle ya gotta band all?
-
any means any and all means all. So if it says all, you band all, the little sadducees and the big ones too. lol
-
any means any and all means all. So if it says all, you band all, the little sadducees and the big ones too. lol
Okay, Thats news to me, Cool though. Makes me life easier.
-
It's actually one of the commandments of Redemption too xp. Forgot which one it is but i know it is one
-
It's actually one of the commandments of Redemption too xp. Forgot which one it is but i know it is one
Yeah XD Idk why I was always taught phar/Sadducees were the exception to the rule.