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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: slugfencer on September 25, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
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Herod’s Treachery (TP)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Place on a Herod. That Herod may use evil Enhancements regardless of brigade. You may discard this card to force X Heroes to withdraw from battle. • Play As: Place on a Herod. That Herod may use evil Enhancements [use other enhancements] regardless of brigade. You may discard this card to force X Heroes in battle to return to owner's territories. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 2:8 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
Watchful Servant (Di)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protected from capture and conversion. Ignores Evil Characters with toughness greater than X. • Play As: Protect Watchful Servant from capture and conversion. Ignore Evil Characters with toughness greater than X. • Identifiers: Generic NT Male Human • Verse: Luke 12:37 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()
So opponent is decked, and had herod's treach on a herod in territory.
Attack with watchful servant.
Can Herod's treach be used to send him back?
Thanks!
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I don't believe so. WS would ignore the character that played HT to begin with, which means that enhancements that were played on him couldn't be used against WS.
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Wouldn't that depend on how many cards are in the deck the player using WS? WS would ignore Treachery IF there are less cards in the deck than the toughness of the Herod holding treachery. Unless we were assuming that WS was active in the original scenario, then ignore mys statement completely.
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So opponent is decked...
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He would only ignore it if he were ignoring the character it was played by at the time it was played. Treachery is like Removing the Curse, it's always ongoing with an effect you can choose when to trigger. If it had been played during a prep or discard phase, or a battle phase when Watchful Servant's SA was not active, it would work.
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He would only ignore it if he were ignoring the character it was played by at the time it was played. Treachery is like Removing the Curse, it's always ongoing with an effect you can choose when to trigger. If it had been played during a prep or discard phase, or a battle phase when Watchful Servant's SA was not active, it would work.
I would agree with Prof A. The definition of cards like this are such that, while 'played' already, they are still effects being used by that character, and if they are being ignored at the moment the effect is activated, then it has no effect.
Note that PLAYING a card is one thing. Activating its ability is another, as it is only at that moment that the cost-benefit occurs (discard to withdraw). If the X on WS (which is dynamic) results in the character being ignored, activating the ability would still result in protection for WS.
In the same way, if I were to block WS and played a battle-winner, then you ITB and remove a card or cards from my deck, should the X now result in an ignore condition on WS then the battle-winner I played would not be able to affect WS. It doesn't matter that it was already 'played,' its ability is reactivated after the ITB and is affected as normal by WS's ignore.
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He would only ignore it if he were ignoring the character it was played by at the time it was played. Treachery is like Removing the Curse, it's always ongoing with an effect you can choose when to trigger. If it had been played during a prep or discard phase, or a battle phase when Watchful Servant's SA was not active, it would work.
I actually both agree with this ruling and think its silly. The cards only connection to the character is is on is that it is placed there. I really think that it is silly to have to reference what card it was played on after the phase or turn it was played, but with the rules as they are (from my understanding) I would say that the ignored status of the character it is placed on has no effect on whether the placed card is ignored.
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The definition of cards like this are such that, while 'played' already, they are still effects being used by that character
Incorrect. Your're correct about the two examples you give, but they do not follow to this conclusion. The Herod is not using Herod's Treachery, he's just the location its been placed on, whatever character the card was played off originally is the only character that used it, and if he was not Ignored at the time then HT works against Servant.
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The definition of cards like this are such that, while 'played' already, they are still effects being used by that character
Incorrect. Your're correct about the two examples you give, but they do not follow to this conclusion. The Herod is not using Herod's Treachery, he's just the location its been placed on, whatever character the card was played off originally is the only character that used it, and if he was not Ignored at the time then HT works against Servant.
Disagree. Abilities on enhancements are defined as being used by the character they are used on, and as this is an activated ability, the examples I posted do follow.
However, I do agree with you that the rules are not clear on this from what I can tell, and cards like this (though I cannot think of another similar situation, as most 'discard to...' enhancements are weapons) should be clarified for the purposes of ignore.