Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: yirgogo on April 05, 2014, 02:04:47 PM
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I have a couple questions involving Samuel Decks.
1. If you start a rescue with Samuel, band to Armorbearer, and than to Ehud, Numbers are 17/14. Ehud has First Strike. What happens if the opponent blocks with ASA with 2K horses, play ability negated by Samuel, numbers are 14/14, it is mutual destruction, and what would happen, and who has inniciative? Ehud has first strike and would not die, but would the attacker get to play the first enhancement since Sam and Armor are dying?
2.What happens if you Put Angel under the Oak into battle, exchange with Samuel, band to Armorbearer, and he banded to Gideon, who is now Protected. The opponent then blocks with Nebuchadnezzar, and uses Head of Gold to capture Samuel and Armorbearer. Gideon has iniciative. He plays Samuels Edict, and negates Head of Gold and Discards Nebuchandezzar, would this ability be CBN? He is the only hero in battle when the card is played, but not after the special ability negates Head of Gold, and the CBN if only hero in battle part is sam or a judge with no special ability is after the negate part. What happens?
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Partial first strike has always confused me so I don't know the answer for 1.
2. Cards are either CBN or not CBN when they are played, they cannot change later. Since Gideon is your only Hero in battle when Edict is played it gains CBN. It doesn't lose that later if other Heroes join (or rejoin) the battle.
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Partial first strike has always confused me so I don't know the answer for 1.
When a single character has first strike, that side of battle has first strike unless that character is removed from battle. I think.
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As long as one or more characters on the side of a battle have first strike then the whole side has first strike.
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When a single character has first strike, that side of battle has first strike unless that character is removed from battle. I think.
As long as one or more characters on the side of a battle have first strike then the whole side has first strike.
This is incorrect. Only characters with first strike have first strike.
General Description
A first strike ability allows a character to survive if a battle ends in the mutual destruction state.
How to Play
First strike applies to the rules of initiative during battle and in battle resolution at the end of battle. The following conditions are important for determining initiative and battle resolution:
one or more characters in battle have a first strike ability
the battle is in the mutual destruction state
the strength of a first strike character is greater than or equal to the toughness of all the character(s) on the other side of battle
If these conditions are met, then the battle is moved to the Hero winning or Evil Character winning state (whichever one is in favor of the character with first strike).
Only characters with first strike have the ability and can survive mutual destruction, as per the ability. You also do not get to add the strength of non-FS characters to the FS character's in order to determine the strength of FS. It is separate.
In this case, only Ehud's strength would apply for first strike to determine if the battle is in a hero winning condition, and only he would survive mutual destruction.
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Oops, I guess I read that REG part wrong when I looked it up. So does that mean that it would be Sam, Armorbearer, and Ehud's initiative?
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When a single character has first strike, that side of battle has first strike unless that character is removed from battle. I think.
As long as one or more characters on the side of a battle have first strike then the whole side has first strike.
This is incorrect. Only characters with first strike have first strike.
General Description
A first strike ability allows a character to survive if a battle ends in the mutual destruction state.
How to Play
First strike applies to the rules of initiative during battle and in battle resolution at the end of battle. The following conditions are important for determining initiative and battle resolution:
one or more characters in battle have a first strike ability
the battle is in the mutual destruction state
the strength of a first strike character is greater than or equal to the toughness of all the character(s) on the other side of battle
If these conditions are met, then the battle is moved to the Hero winning or Evil Character winning state (whichever one is in favor of the character with first strike).
Only characters with first strike have the ability and can survive mutual destruction, as per the ability. You also do not get to add the strength of non-FS characters to the FS character's in order to determine the strength of FS. It is separate.
In this case, only Ehud's strength would apply for first strike to determine if the battle is in a hero winning condition, and only he would survive mutual destruction.
Oh man. Everything I knew about first strike... Out the window...
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To be comprehensive, I should add the rule change Rob posted about First Strike (which is now in the list of rules that have not made it to the rulebook/REG (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/rulings-board-posting-rules-references-new-rules-and-faq/msg521974/#msg521974)).
First Strike
If there are first strike abilities on both sides of battle and the battle ends in a mutual destruction state, the characters are discarded as normal for mutual destruction, regardless of first strike. If both sides have characters with the ability, then no character gains the benefit of surviving mutual destruction.
On a side note, since no one else posted on the other issue since FS took over the discussion, just confirming what browarod said is correct about the CBN sticking on Edict. The reasoning he gave is perfect.
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So would the Sam/armor/Ehud side get iniciative?
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So would the Sam/armor/Ehud side get iniciative?
If the band is 17/14, and evil is 14/14, and the heroes have a FS strength of 7, then yes the offense has initiative. It is mutual destruction, which Ehud would survive, with evil playing last, but the strength is not enough on its own to pass the initiative (as per the definition I posted).
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Thank you! So, to clarify, if It is mutual destruction, and one side has partial first strike, than the iniciative is determined by the first strike offence compared to the other sides total defense?
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Thank you! So, to clarify, if It is mutual destruction, and one side has partial first strike, than the iniciative is determined by the first strike offence compared to the other sides total defense?
First strike applies to the rules of initiative during battle and in battle resolution at the end of battle. The following conditions are important for determining initiative and battle resolution:
one or more characters in battle have a first strike ability
the battle is in the mutual destruction state
the strength of a first strike character is greater than or equal to the toughness of all the character(s) on the other side of battle
If these conditions are met, then the battle is moved to the Hero winning or Evil Character winning state (whichever one is in favor of the character with first strike).
If all three of the components are met, then initiative passes. Condition 3 is not met.