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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Gabe on March 10, 2009, 08:56:46 AM

Title: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 10, 2009, 08:56:46 AM
Quote from: REG
Prophet
One possible role of a character (see Character’s Role and Gender) is prophet. A Prophet is any Hero or Evil Character that the Bible refers to as a prophet or who foretold the future by supernatural revelation.
The Bible is the authoratative text in Redemption.  If we're going to have cards made of people who lived outside of Bible times, then, for those exceptions, we need to consider official texts written about their life as well.  This is the case with Saint Patrick.

Quote from: http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=89
Patrick's captivity lasted until he was twenty, when he escaped after having a dream from God in which he was told to leave Ireland by going to the coast. There he found some sailors who took him back to Britian, where he reunited with his family.

He had another dream in which the people of Ireland were calling out to him "We beg you, holy youth, to come and walk among us once more."
Cited are two instances of supernatural revelation that most texts written on Saint Patrick agree on.

Does anyone see any reason that Saint Patrick shouldn't be considered a prophet?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: uthminister [BR] on March 10, 2009, 10:29:01 AM
That actually makes sense to me as well Gabe...
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: TheMarti on March 10, 2009, 10:36:26 AM
Yep. I agree, definitely sounds like he prophesied.

~TM
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Bryon on March 10, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
Does receiving a prophetic message in a dream make one a prophet?  I don't know.  Does that mean Joseph, husband to Mary, was a prophet?  Do you actually have to tell others what you heard in your dream to be considered a prophet?  What if you tell them AFTER the prophesied event happens, "God warned me in a dream this would happen."  I don't want to discount the idea.  I just want to be sure what the criteria is for a prophet label.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: STAMP on March 10, 2009, 10:44:06 AM
I agree with Bryon that criteria needs to be set.  All true Christians receive a measure of the gift of prophecy.  So does that make every saint and christian we use as heroes a prophet?

I vote that a prophet is an individual who has spoken prophecy before an event happens.


Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on March 10, 2009, 10:47:55 AM
By that criteria, St. Pat would not be a prophet as he didn't speak the prophecy correct?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 12:06:13 PM
HE'S A PROPHET PRIEST!!!!!

HE'S N.T. (or is he?)

HT + TABLE OF SHOWBREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 12:50:07 PM
ht?
Hidden Treasures.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: jtay on March 10, 2009, 12:52:45 PM
Here's the definition of Priest from the REG:

Priest

A priest is one who is duly authorized to minister in sacred things, particularly to offer sacrifices at the altar, and who acts as mediator between men and God. Priests are in charge of sacrifice and offering at worship places, particularly the tabernacle and Temple. Other functions are blessing the people, determining the will of God, and instructing the people in the law of God. The office of priest is hereditary.


Since this office is now permanently occupied by Jesus Christ, it would not make sense to have any NT priests that are not evil characters.  Especially not ones that aren't even recorded in the Bible.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 01:54:26 PM
Here's the definition of Priest from the REG:

Priest

A priest is one who is duly authorized to minister in sacred things, particularly to offer sacrifices at the altar, and who acts as mediator between men and God. Priests are in charge of sacrifice and offering at worship places, particularly the tabernacle and Temple. Other functions are blessing the people, determining the will of God, and instructing the people in the law of God. The office of priest is hereditary.


Since this office is now permanently occupied by Jesus Christ, it would not make sense to have any NT priests that are not evil characters.  Especially not ones that aren't even recorded in the Bible.
St. Patrick was ordained a priest by the Church (the same Church that wrote and compilied the NT), he's a preist. Also, I believe the Jesus is considered the "High Priest".
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 10, 2009, 02:04:30 PM
Saint Patrick does not meet the requirements for Redemption's definition of a priest (see jtay's post above for the quoted definition).
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 02:09:43 PM
Saint Patrick does not meet the requirements for Redemption's definition of a priest (see jtay's post above for the quoted definition).


Quote
A priest is one who is duly authorized to minister in sacred things,
Eucharist.
Quote
and who acts as mediator between men and God.

Confessions.
Quote
Other functions are blessing the people, determining the will of God, and instructing the people in the law of God.

Clearly these too.
Quote
The office of priest is hereditary.
Apostolic sucession (hereditary doesn't have to be through genetic lineage).
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: SirNobody on March 10, 2009, 03:03:20 PM
Hey,

Quote
and who acts as mediator between men and God.

Confessions.

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," - 1 Timothy 2:5

I also feel that a prophet must share the message imparted to him before it comes to pass in order to qualify as a prophet.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: SirNobody on March 10, 2009, 03:20:18 PM
Hey,

I'm not the most aware of Catholic philosophy on some of these things.  Do they consider their priests today to be priests in the same way as the Old Testament priests were?  Or do they see a difference between the two?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 03:24:00 PM
Hey,

I'm not the most aware of Catholic philosophy on some of these things.  Do they consider their priests today to be priests in the same way as the Old Testament priests were?  Or do they see a difference between the two?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Well enough to fit into the Redemption definition of a priest. I don't know the specifics but http://newadvent.org/ (http://newadvent.org/) usually has good stuff to be found.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: golgotha on March 10, 2009, 03:39:58 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is for having a character made in Redemption that occurs outside of the Bible. For example, could we see a Billy Graham card made? I don't know. Since I am unsure of what requirements there are for said character, I don't know if the same criteria applies to them as other characters. Universally, it should. And I agree that there should be some context, some way of determining this.
Believe it or not, the Bible has been proven and considered by many to be historical fact. those who have tried to discredit it, have failed. So maybe basing things on historical fact could be some of the criteria. For example, despite rumors to the contrary, Elvis Presley is dead. We can't and shouldn't make a card "Elvis is Alive!" if we want to remain a game based on facts. The Bible has been confirmed to be true by several sources and information outside of the Bible itself. IDK, maybe we need to discuss this more, and find a way to define criteria for this. Truth be told, while I agree that there does need to be a way to define someone outside of the Bible as a saint, prophet or whatever, I kinda dislike the idea. Because one could make a semi-legit arguement that Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church could be considered a "Prophet" by some ruleings.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 03:42:34 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is for having a character made in Redemption that occurs outside of the Bible. For example, could we see a Billy Graham card made? I don't know. Since I am unsure of what requirements there are for said character, I don't know if the same criteria applies to them as other characters. Universally, it should. And I agree that there should be some context, some way of determining this.
Believe it or not, the Bible has been proven and considered by many to be historical fact. those who have tried to discredit it, have failed. So maybe basing things on historical fact could be some of the criteria. For example, despite rumors to the contrary, Elvis Presley is dead. We can't and shouldn't make a card "Elvis is Alive!" if we want to remain a game based on facts. The Bible has been confirmed to be true by several sources and information outside of the Bible itself. IDK, maybe we need to discuss this more, and find a way to define criteria for this. Truth be told, while I agree that there does need to be a way to define someone outside of the Bible as a saint, prophet or whatever, I kinda dislike the idea. Because one could make a semi-legit arguement that Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church could be considered a "Prophet" by some ruleings.
Well, if we can have priests of Baal, we should have priests of the Catholic church.

Seriously guys.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: golgotha on March 10, 2009, 03:52:50 PM
I'm not saying we can't. I don't think anyone is saying that, at least not blatently. But the Priests of Baal were mentioned in the Bible...I feel the discussion is, since the Priests of the Catholic Church isn't mentioned in the Bible, should they just simply meet the same criteria as other priests, or should there be other criteria that they should meet.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 04:02:03 PM
I'm not saying we can't. I don't think anyone is saying that, at least not blatently. But the Priests of Baal were mentioned in the Bible...I feel the discussion is, since the Priests of the Catholic Church isn't mentioned in the Bible, should they just simply meet the same criteria as other priests, or should there be other criteria that they should meet.
Well, St. Patrick isn't mentioned in the Bible.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: golgotha on March 10, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
The Bible is the authoratative text in Redemption.  If we're going to have cards made of people who lived outside of Bible times, then, for those exceptions, we need to consider official texts written about their life as well.  This is the case with Saint Patrick.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 04:07:46 PM
The Bible is the authoratative text in Redemption.  If we're going to have cards made of people who lived outside of Bible times, then, for those exceptions, we need to consider official texts written about their life as well.  This is the case with Saint Patrick.
So therefore, it is authoritative to say that he was a priest. I checked with the highest source of cannon I could find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Red on March 10, 2009, 04:13:30 PM
i say we need a costine card!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 04:14:29 PM
I saw we need St. Augustine.

PATRON SAINT THEMED DECKS FOR THE WIN!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: The Schaef on March 10, 2009, 04:31:56 PM
St. Nicholas!

When making a rescue attempt with this Hero, give one of your Redeemed Souls to each opponent.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: STAMP on March 10, 2009, 04:35:34 PM
St. Nicholas!

When making a rescue attempt with this Hero, give one of your Redeemed Souls to each opponent.

 :rollin:
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 04:38:06 PM
St. Nicholas!

When making a rescue attempt with this Hero, give one of your Redeemed Souls to each opponent.

 :rollin:

St. Nick could be a searcher or a mini gifts-of-the-magi.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: golgotha on March 10, 2009, 04:52:02 PM
I guess what I want to know, is what other "official Texts About their lives" are we using and can these texts define them as a prophet or priest?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 10, 2009, 04:53:04 PM
I think if Abel can be a prophet, so can Patty for sure.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 04:59:00 PM
I guess what I want to know, is what other "official Texts About their lives" are we using and can these texts define them as a prophet or priest?

He was ordained as a priest. That's undisputed.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 10, 2009, 05:08:26 PM
He is referring to cards in general, not just Patty anymore.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on March 10, 2009, 05:33:46 PM
ok so.. i guess that would now make st patrick a preist and now we have another N.T. preist  :-\
You aren't paying attention at all.  Who ruled that he is besides you?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 05:34:21 PM
I think I'll make my own Saints set.
ok so.. i guess that would now make st patrick a preist and now we have another N.T. preist  :-\
You aren't paying attention at all.  Who ruled that he is besides you?
The fact that he was a priest. Why should we choose to ignore the historical fact that he was ordained a priest?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 10, 2009, 06:31:42 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is for having a character made in Redemption that occurs outside of the Bible. For example, could we see a Billy Graham card made?
I have it on very good authority that St Patty and the Salvation Army guy are exceptions and that nothing will go much beyond the time of Constantine. Also, I would argue that the Church dispensation is ongoing and that St. Patrick was an Apostle. An Apostle shows the characteristics of all five ministry gifts: Apostle + prophet/pastor/teacher/evangelist. He certainly did. Also, one can prophesy but not hold the five fold ministry office of a Prophet, so let's not get too crazy handing out titles.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 06:33:15 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is for having a character made in Redemption that occurs outside of the Bible. For example, could we see a Billy Graham card made?
I have it on very good authority that St Patty and the Salvation Army guy are exceptions and that nothing will go much beyond the time of Constantine. Also, I would argue that the Church dispensation is ongoing and that St. Patrick was an Apostle. An Apostle shows the characteristics of all five ministry gifts: Apostle + prophet/pastor/teacher/evangelist. He certainly did. Also, one can prophesy but not hold the five fold ministry office of a Prophet, so let's not get too crazy handing out titles.
So now we have St. Patrick as a prophet, priest, and an apostle? Nice.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 10, 2009, 06:37:07 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is for having a character made in Redemption that occurs outside of the Bible. For example, could we see a Billy Graham card made?
I have it on very good authority that St Patty and the Salvation Army guy are exceptions and that nothing will go much beyond the time of Constantine. Also, I would argue that the Church dispensation is ongoing and that St. Patrick was an Apostle. An Apostle shows the characteristics of all five ministry gifts: Apostle + prophet/pastor/teacher/evangelist. He certainly did. Also, one can prophesy but not hold the five fold ministry office of a Prophet, so let's not get too crazy handing out titles.
So now we have St. Patrick as a prophet, priest, and an apostle? Nice.


I call 'em like I see 'em
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 10, 2009, 06:57:20 PM
This will work great in my prophets deck in combination with Micah.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 17, 2009, 04:50:11 PM
This whole thread brings up a good point...why is Abel a prophet?  not that I am omplaining, but we dont really have any set criteria for a prophet other than the identifier line that shows up on everything post priests.  I dont know of anywhere where able "propheied"  in fact, none of his words are ever recorded in scripture.  so why not St. Patty?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Bryon on March 17, 2009, 05:03:20 PM
Abel is a prophet because Jesus said so.  :)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on March 17, 2009, 05:10:40 PM
Um, he wasn't serious...........You nuthead............

Abel = ~600 BC
Jesus = 1 AD

Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: thestrongangel on March 17, 2009, 05:16:31 PM
XD! It stands for Anno Domini, meaning the Year of our Lord.

After death!!! ha!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 17, 2009, 05:17:22 PM
Abel = ~600 BC
Uh, do you mean 6000 BC? 600 is like...after the Greeks. :P

AD means after death.  not this is the times when jesus was alive
*sigh* Musician, AD is from the Latin Anno Domini, meaning "in the year of the lord." Jesus was born around this time.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: thestrongangel on March 17, 2009, 05:18:36 PM
so i guess bc is before christ, then all of the sudden he dies??
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: thestrongangel on March 17, 2009, 05:19:59 PM
he cant die right after he didnt exist. :P
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 17, 2009, 05:21:32 PM
Abel is a prophet because Jesus said so.  :)

Is this serious?  or is this a joke?  Did jesus mention Abel as a prophet and I just forgot about it?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 17, 2009, 05:23:46 PM
duh! thats what hapend isnt it?? or did i just miss somthing?

In the scenario you are defending, there would be 33 years of unaccounted passage of time, since those years would not qualify as "Before Christ" or "After (His) Death."

Abel is a prophet because Jesus said so.  :)

Is this serious?  or is this a joke?  Did jesus mention Abel as a prophet and I just forgot about it?

He might be referring to Matthew 23:34-5, but I'm not sure that is conclusive.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 17, 2009, 05:24:19 PM
Ah, NVM.  I did my own research and found it.

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
 
Luke 11:50-51
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 17, 2009, 05:25:47 PM
BC (befor christ). AD (after death) it makes pefect sence. say 1 BC adam and eve 100 or so AD (the pope comes) it makes sence.

BC dates are in reverse, so 1 BC would be the year before Jesus' birth.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: thestrongangel on March 17, 2009, 05:25:58 PM
Ah, NVM.  I did my own research and found it.

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
 
Luke 11:50-51
Nice find :)

he cant die right after he didnt exist. :P

BC (befor christ). AD (after death) it makes pefect sence. say 1 BC adam and eve 100 or so AD (the pope comes) it makes sence.

Musicain......*sigh*
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 17, 2009, 05:29:50 PM
Ah, NVM.  I did my own research and found it.

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
 
Luke 11:50-51

That is interesting, because Matthew's account has more detailed wording that would not indicate Abel as a prophet, but rather as "righteous blood" that was spilt (which they would still be accountable for).
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 17, 2009, 06:31:17 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is for having a character made in Redemption that occurs outside of the Bible. For example, could we see a Billy Graham card made?
I have it on very good authority that St Patty and the Salvation Army guy are exceptions and that nothing will go much beyond the time of Constantine. Also, I would argue that the Church dispensation is ongoing and that St. Patrick was an Apostle. An Apostle shows the characteristics of all five ministry gifts: Apostle + prophet/pastor/teacher/evangelist. He certainly did. Also, one can prophesy but not hold the five fold ministry office of a Prophet, so let's not get too crazy handing out titles.
So now we have St. Patrick as a prophet, priest, and an apostle? Nice.


I call 'em like I see 'em

Looks like we need a measurement. Oh, Powers that Be???????
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Bryon on March 20, 2009, 01:44:57 PM
Unless someone comes up with something more conclusive, I don't see Saint Patrick as a prophet.  I'm hoping to be proven wrong.  :)

For those with fears that redemption will be including characters from the too-recent past:
First, note that St. Patrick was born between 385 and 390 AD, which is still quite early in the church history, and before there were any major divisions in the church that continue to today.
Second, I don't foresee any more characters from this era being released in 2009-2011.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 20, 2009, 01:49:09 PM
We agree that Saint Patrick is documented to have had prophetic dreams.  Am I correct in understanding that the conclusive evidence you're looking for is whether or not he told anyone about the dreams before they came true?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 20, 2009, 01:50:25 PM
We agree that Saint Patrick is documented to have had prophetic dreams.  Am I correct in understanding that the conclusive evidence you're looking for is whether or not he told anyone about the dreams before they came true?
What about John? Isn't he a prophet?

(Also, I'm assuming that priest sticks).
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 20, 2009, 01:50:42 PM
Unless someone comes up with something more conclusive, I don't see Saint Patrick as a prophet.  I'm hoping to be proven wrong.  :)

yeah me too.  St patty as a prophet  SCHWEEET!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: STAMP on March 20, 2009, 01:54:56 PM
Considering that the authoritative source(s) used in Redemption are the Bible, and Josephus to a limited scope, another authoritative source would have to be approved by Rob in order to make a call.


Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Bryon on March 20, 2009, 01:55:35 PM
Yes.
We agree that Saint Patrick is documented to have had prophetic dreams.  Am I correct in understanding that the conclusive evidence you're looking for is whether or not he told anyone about the dreams before they came true?
Yes.

John did tell people about the revelations he saw before they came true.  He wrote them before they came true and sent them to the early church.

I don't know what Rob will decide about whether St. Patrick is a priest.  I would have said not, because I think of Priests in the pre-crucifixion sense, but we do have Priests of Christ, so I don't know.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 20, 2009, 02:25:05 PM
Yes.
We agree that Saint Patrick is documented to have had prophetic dreams.  Am I correct in understanding that the conclusive evidence you're looking for is whether or not he told anyone about the dreams before they came true?
Yes.

John did tell people about the revelations he saw before they came true.  He wrote them before they came true and sent them to the early church.

I don't know what Rob will decide about whether St. Patrick is a priest.  I would have said not, because I think of Priests in the pre-crucifixion sense, but we do have Priests of Christ, so I don't know.

Copy on the priest concept. But, I'm contending that Patrick was an Apostle, just like Paul was an Apostle outside the original 12 of Christ. Patrick was sent by Christ into Ireland like a one man Marine Corps and confronted the whole pagan system and it all came crashing down! Then when Europe was burning, Ireland became the beacon of Christendom for a time. Good fruits, marks of an Apostle.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 20, 2009, 02:39:58 PM
Copy on the priest concept. But, I'm contending that Patrick was an Apostle, just like Paul was an Apostle outside the original 12 of Christ. Patrick was sent by Christ into Ireland like a one man Marine Corps and confronted the whole pagan system and it all came crashing down! Then when Europe was burning, Ireland became the beacon of Christendom for a time. Good fruits, marks of an Apostle.

That may all be true but I'm not sure that it's relevant to Redemption. :scratch: 

There are currently no cards with the identifier "Apostle" or that have an ability based on being an Apostle.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 20, 2009, 02:51:23 PM
Copy on the priest concept. But, I'm contending that Patrick was an Apostle, just like Paul was an Apostle outside the original 12 of Christ. Patrick was sent by Christ into Ireland like a one man Marine Corps and confronted the whole pagan system and it all came crashing down! Then when Europe was burning, Ireland became the beacon of Christendom for a time. Good fruits, marks of an Apostle.

That may all be true but I'm not sure that it's relevant to Redemption. :scratch: 

There are currently no cards with the identifier "Apostle" or that have an ability based on being an Apostle.
I know, but I think that's the way we should go. Who knows, maybe in the future it will matter? Mean time, I don't think he was a prophet in the strickest sence, even though I am a HUGE fan of St Patrick!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Tsavong Lah on March 20, 2009, 02:59:09 PM
Eh, I'm not so sure about the Apostle title, though. That name ended with Paul and the twelve, and the big guys of the church for several hundred years after that were called Apostolic Fathers, and then even that title ends somewhere in the Dark Ages, depending on who you ask. Patrick could pretty conceivably be an Apostolic Father if that ever becomes a Redemption-relevant term, but I think Apostle is stretching it.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 20, 2009, 03:16:42 PM
Eh, I'm not so sure about the Apostle title, though. That name ended with Paul and the twelve, and the big guys of the church for several hundred years after that were called Apostolic Fathers, and then even that title ends somewhere in the Dark Ages, depending on who you ask. Patrick could pretty conceivably be an Apostolic Father if that ever becomes a Redemption-relevant term, but I think Apostle is stretching it.
Well, I know that is a school of thought, but if you read the scriptures about the ministry gift with the thought in mind that "this is how God sets order through the church" instead of "this is how it used to be" you'll see it makes sense. At any rate, it will still function no matter what it's called.
But, hey, I'm easy. Just let me know the ruling and I'll play by it. :]
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 20, 2009, 08:36:09 PM
Eh, I'm not so sure about the Apostle title, though. That name ended with Paul and the twelve, and the big guys of the church for several hundred years after that were called Apostolic Fathers, and then even that title ends somewhere in the Dark Ages, depending on who you ask. Patrick could pretty conceivably be an Apostolic Father if that ever becomes a Redemption-relevant term, but I think Apostle is stretching it.
The Apostolic calling is to plant and manage churches; it usually follows a missionary. They're the mean between a bishop and an evangelist.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 20, 2009, 09:04:11 PM
Oooh, the mean, eh? So if you smashed a bishop and an evangelist together, mixed them up, and then divided them into two equal parts, you would end up with two apostles?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: CactusRob on March 24, 2009, 09:57:51 PM
Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.

Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 24, 2009, 10:06:57 PM
awesome!  my green decks rock now!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 24, 2009, 10:07:28 PM
Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.

So, Gabe, did you have a dream before you started this thread?  :o

Woo-hoo for Saint Patrick the prophet. Start modifying your green decks now.  ;D
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 24, 2009, 10:10:35 PM
Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.

Everyone, say it with me.  ROB ROCKS!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So, Gabe, did you have a dream before you started this thread?  :o

Actually this whole idea came to me in a half awake vision on my 4 a.m. drive to Minnesota for Bill's annual T2 tournament. Hey, what else was I supposed to do on the 5 hour drive.  ::)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 24, 2009, 10:13:04 PM
Everyone, say it with me.  ROB ROCKS!!! 

I said it ten times fast and my wife thought I was barking like a bulldog.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: 777Godspeed on March 24, 2009, 11:11:04 PM
Woot! St. Patrick is a Prophet.  :thumbup:   
Thanks for clearing things up for us, Rob.
ROB ROCKS!!!


Everyone, say it with me.  ROB ROCKS!!! 

I said it ten times fast and my wife thought I was barking like a bulldog.

Now that is funny.  :rollin:


Godspeed,
Mike
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 25, 2009, 12:32:14 AM
Is he also a priest?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: STAMP on March 25, 2009, 01:29:50 PM
Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.

So, Gabe, did you have a dream before you started this thread?  :o

Woo-hoo for Saint Patrick the prophet. Start modifying your green decks now.  ;D


Hmmm...St Patty, Micah, Rhoda, I Am Patience...some new opportunities for my TGT Servant deck.   :)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: MichaelHue on March 25, 2009, 04:40:41 PM
Is he also a priest?
This is what I want to know.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: CactusRob on March 25, 2009, 05:47:54 PM
He is a Priest just as every Catholic priest is a priest.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 25, 2009, 05:50:04 PM
I love the ruling, but just for complete clarification, he is not a High Priest, right?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Bryon on March 25, 2009, 06:00:54 PM
correct.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 25, 2009, 07:30:50 PM
St. Patrick is a priest and a prophet?  Wow, that is huge!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: 777Godspeed on March 25, 2009, 08:16:07 PM
Did I just feel the earth move?   ;D
St. Patrick is a Priest and a Prophet.  :o



Godspeed,
Mike
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Isildur on March 25, 2009, 08:22:30 PM
Darn now we have to reprint Saint Paty to be Teal and Green   :P
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: CountFount on March 25, 2009, 09:13:50 PM
Hmmmm?:

Covenant with Levi gives him access to sites
Covenant with Phineas protects him from discard
Perpetual Priesthood can pull him from a draw pile
Ram's Horn works with him
He can use Table of Showbread
Silver Trumpet to Beniah, Ira, etc.
Hidden Treasures works with him
Obadiah's Cave works with him
Seraph+St. Patrich (Silver Trumpet in Temple) + Beniah + first enhancement with Hidden Treasures on Artifact Pile....ouch!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 25, 2009, 09:16:42 PM
I don't think he is in the house of elezar is he?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 25, 2009, 09:17:30 PM
Covenant with Levi gives him access to sites
Covenant with Phineas protects him from discard
Perpetual Priesthood can pull him from a draw pile
Ram's Horn works with him
He can use Table of Showbread
Silver Trumpet to Beniah, Ira, etc.
Hidden Treasures works with him
Obadiah's Cave works with him
Seraph+St. Patrich (Silver Trumpet in Temple) + Beniah + first enhancement with Hidden Treasures on Artifact Pile....ouch!

Whoa, slow down there Count!  A couple of those don't quite work.  :)  Still, the ways to use St. Patty just got a whole let better.  I think we'll be seeing a lot more of him in the future.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: MichaelHue on March 25, 2009, 09:23:12 PM
I will definitely be building my next deck around this card.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: CountFount on March 25, 2009, 09:27:01 PM
Got excited about the Covenant of Phineas. I'm breathing slower.

but

I can't figure out the strikeout on the Hidden Treasure banding thing..He has been alone so long in my pile of 'can't figure out how to use cards'.. that I figured you would make an exception for the over 40 crowd. ;D

Of course you are right....again...I will take my cane and wipe my chin.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Bryon on March 25, 2009, 09:30:41 PM
HT: If your LONE green...
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 25, 2009, 09:31:21 PM
...I figured you would make an exception for the over 40 crowd. ;D

Of course you are right....again...I will take my cane and wipe my chin.

I always give you extra grace due to your age.  ;)

The catch with Hidden Treasures is that it only works with a "lone hero".  St. Patty can use it, just not with all that crazy banding you were talking about. :)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: CountFount on March 25, 2009, 09:37:58 PM
I figured he was "lonely" so it would work. Sorry Oklahoma humor.

DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND ME!

Where's my friend Matt? ;D
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 26, 2009, 07:25:50 AM
Did I just feel the earth move?   ;D
St. Patrick is a Priest and a Prophet.  :o



Godspeed,
Mike

but not officially an apostle   ;D
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: everytribe on March 26, 2009, 08:07:08 AM
DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND ME!

We love and understand you in MN!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: MichaelHue on March 26, 2009, 08:32:00 AM
Someone needs to come up with some amazing convoluted combo using St. Patrick + HT + Table of Showbread.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: EmJayBee83 on March 26, 2009, 02:27:23 PM
Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.
By this standard is King Nebuchadnezzar a prophet also?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 26, 2009, 04:51:52 PM
not a good one...
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: CactusRob on March 26, 2009, 06:09:10 PM
Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.
By this standard is King Nebuchadnezzar a prophet also?

No.  Nebuchadnezzar still needed a prophet (Daniel) to interpret his dream.  Saint Patrick dreamed the dream and also understood it.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 28, 2009, 10:40:19 PM
im sorry rob, but that wouldnt make saint patrick a prophet. was john a prophet? no. did he have the gift of prophecy? A.K.A. having dreams about the future? yes. so then guys i dont think it would make ST patrick a prophet.

.... and, for game purposes, I don't think that anyone should be considered a musician unless they performed on American Idol. That is why Rob is creating the new American Idol set. He said the new set would be different in his pseudo-limerick.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Arch Angel on March 28, 2009, 10:48:00 PM
Er, little, for Redemption purposes at least, John is a prophet. Whether you see him as one or not doesn't change the ruling.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 30, 2009, 10:41:25 AM
archangel john wasnot a prophet. just because he had the gift of prophecy doesnt make him a prophet red the book of strongs

Sometimes the things you say don't make any sense to me.   ???

Who's "archangel john" and what does he have to do with Redemption?

Furthermore, how can someone have the "gift of prophecy" and not be a prophet?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on March 30, 2009, 10:43:36 AM
archangel john wasnot a prophet. just because he had the gift of prophecy doesnt make him a prophet red the book of strongs

Sometimes the things you say don't make any sense to me.   ???

Who's "archangel john" and what does he have to do with Redemption?

Furthermore, how can someone have the "gift of prophecy" and not be a prophet?
In non-denominational church it's the opposite. Having the "gift of prophesy" usually implies a prophetic annointing, though anyone can potentially prophesy.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: TheMarti on March 30, 2009, 10:51:07 AM
I agree. John WAS a prophet, he prophesied. To say that he isn't is almost... foolish.

Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: STAMP on March 30, 2009, 11:30:38 AM
Which John are most of you talking about?  John, son of Zebedee, has been and still is a prophet and is listed as so in the REG.  John the Baptist is also listed as a prophet.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 30, 2009, 11:40:01 AM
archangel john wasnot a prophet. just because he had the gift of prophecy doesnt make him a prophet red the book of strongs

Sometimes the things you say don't make any sense to me.   ???

Who's "archangel john" and what does he have to do with Redemption?

Furthermore, how can someone have the "gift of prophecy" and not be a prophet?
In my "faith tradition" ( ;] ) the gift of prophecy is separate from someone who holds the five fold ministry gift of a prophet
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Arch Angel on March 30, 2009, 11:58:52 AM
little, you're way off base.
Being a prophet is simply being someone who has *and uses* the gift of prophecy.
Being a Medical Doctor is being someone who's gone through extensive medical training.
Being a healer is being someone who has *and uses* the gift of healing.

Having the gift doesn't make you one, but having it and using it does.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 30, 2009, 12:15:58 PM
little, you're way off base.
Being a prophet is simply being someone who has *and uses* the gift of prophecy.
Being a Medical Doctor is being someone who's gone through extensive medical training.
Being a healer is being someone who has *and uses* the gift of healing.

Having the gift doesn't make you one, but having it and using it does.


You're entitled to your opinion, but if he's "way off base" (and me too) then let's have some back up.
You're on.
go.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on March 30, 2009, 12:20:53 PM
Before we continue with this discussion, are we talking about what determines a prophet accordign to scripture or according to the redemption gaming rules?  Only one is truly important to the discussion of this thread and Rob has already made his ruling and defended it.  I dont understand why the 'biblical' definition is causing people so many problems here.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: metalpsalm on March 30, 2009, 12:43:41 PM
Before we continue with this discussion, are we talking about what determines a prophet accordign to scripture or according to the redemption gaming rules?  Only one is truly important to the discussion of this thread and Rob has already made his ruling and defended it.  I dont understand why the 'biblical' definition is causing people so many problems here.
neither do I
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on March 30, 2009, 01:47:34 PM
Rob gave us a ruling.  St. Patty is a priest and a prophet according to Cactus games.  For further discussion about your beliefs and opinions please start a thread in the open discussion section.
Title: REG Update: Saint Patrick - a prohphet and a priest
Post by: Gabe on July 22, 2009, 12:07:09 AM
 :bump:
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 22, 2009, 12:22:11 AM
Thanks. I never read this thread before. Woot for Patrick being a priest.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on July 22, 2009, 12:22:25 AM
lol is someone tooting his own horn?  
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Gabe on July 22, 2009, 12:35:37 AM
lol is someone tooting his own horn?

I was just trying to make Mike's job easier since he has a lot of catching up to do.  I didn't only bump my own threads but they were the easiest for me to find. ::)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: frisian9 on July 22, 2009, 12:39:12 AM
This will be updated this weekend.

Mike
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on July 22, 2009, 12:41:51 AM
lol is someone tooting his own horn?

I was just trying to make Mike's job easier since he has a lot of catching up to do.  I didn't only bump my own threads but they were the easiest for me to find. ::)

Yeah I figured that out after I saw the second bump of a thread titled "REG Fix".  Figgured it was for Mike. 
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: lightningninja on July 23, 2009, 12:24:07 AM
Okay, so he's a prophet and priest?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: southpawkev on July 23, 2009, 12:32:57 AM
um.....saint patty does not belong in this game ???  and if he does,then bust out a martin luther card  or john calvin....mmmm  i might like it then ;D
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Tsavong Lah on July 23, 2009, 12:38:53 AM
The problem is that Calvin would have to be an EC. :P
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Red on July 23, 2009, 12:49:48 AM
The problem is that Calvin would have to be an EC. :P
not exactly
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: southpawkev on July 23, 2009, 12:51:25 AM
I vote for a john calvin card or Luther ;D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg2O0hZ5ChA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg2O0hZ5ChA#)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: crustpope on July 23, 2009, 12:58:30 AM
I think Doug Gray made a calvin card as a joke and posted it on the board soon after St. Patrick was released.  It looked so good and had such a huge SA that many people thought it was real.  I used to have a copy of it but I think it got lost when my laptop crashed.  Does anyone have it?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 23, 2009, 02:10:23 AM
Do you know what a can of worms making Saint Patrick a Prophet in Redemption would open up? From what I understand, Rob Anderson has tried his very best to make this game one that Christians of all different denominations can enjoy and not feel uncomfortable with. What about the Christians who believe that the signifying gifts (i.e. prophecy, tongues, etc.) were only for the Apostolic Age? The word "prophet" in its general sense is anyone who relays God's message. So every Christian is a prophet in their own right. But not everyone will agree that Saint Patrick was a prophet in the Biblical sense (i.e. Moses, Jeremiah, John, et al) were. Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter. Whether or not Saint Patrick is made a prophet won't affect whether or not I play the game, so whatever is ruled I'll abide by.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: BubbleBoy on July 23, 2009, 08:49:54 AM
Well, the qualifications for a prophet in the REG are what we go by for determining which characters in Redemption are prophets. I believe those qualifications are 1) he has to have had* a vision, and 2) he has to have actually prophesied. I don't know much about Saint Patrick, but apparently he meets both of those.

*Three forms of have in a row, ftw!
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: D-man on July 23, 2009, 02:23:26 PM
:scratch: Am I missing something?  St. Patty isn't the first Green Prophet/Priest...Zechariah is a Prophet and a Zerubbabel's Temple priest...why is this so game-changing?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 23, 2009, 03:23:16 PM
He's NT
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: D-man on July 23, 2009, 04:01:57 PM
He is?  Ok... I realise that his verse is from the NT, but he isn't mentioned in the New Testament.  Quick question.  Are characters with a Josephus reference considered NT or no?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 23, 2009, 04:04:05 PM
Testament refers to when they lived. Anyone who lived from NT time on is considered NT. A Rob Anderson card would be NT. The verse is only used as a reference for clarity. David, for instance, is mentioned in the NT in several verses, but he is still OT.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 23, 2009, 04:04:24 PM
Typically, except for Antiochus.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 23, 2009, 04:09:52 PM
Typically, except for Antiochus.

How is he an exception? He lived a couple hundred years before Christ's birth.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 23, 2009, 04:11:38 PM
 Iwas responding to DMan but your post somehow got in there.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: D-man on July 23, 2009, 05:46:41 PM
Ok, got it.  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on July 24, 2009, 12:59:23 PM
Essentially, O.T. = B.C.E. N.T. = C.E. By that, Judas Maccabees would be O.T.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 24, 2009, 02:15:20 PM
Essentially, O.T. = B.C.E. N.T. = C.E. By that, Judas Maccabees would be O.T.

Or O.T. = B.C., N.T. = A.D.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on July 24, 2009, 04:04:42 PM
Essentially, O.T. = B.C.E. N.T. = C.E. By that, Judas Maccabees would be O.T.

Or O.T. = B.C., N.T. = A.D.
No. It's definitely not an "or".
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Korunks on July 24, 2009, 04:07:11 PM
Actually it is an or, B.C.E. only came into use extensively in recent years, it was B.C. and A.D. for a very long time before that.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 24, 2009, 04:16:06 PM
Actually it is an or, B.C.E. only came into use extensively in recent years, it was B.C. and A.D. for a very long time before that.

B.C.E. ("before common era") and C.E. ("common era") was instituted by liberals who want to remove all mention of Christ from our lives. This doesn't even make any sense, considering that "A.D." and "B.C." were set by the very appearance of Christ. The only reason it's not perfect is because the guy (I forget his name off the top of my head) who set the timeline as we know it now, his math was a little off. But B.C. ("before christ") and A.D. ("Anno Domini" (in the year of our Lord)) should most definitely be used for the time periods.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on July 24, 2009, 04:23:28 PM
Actually it is an or, B.C.E. only came into use extensively in recent years, it was B.C. and A.D. for a very long time before that.
It's an "and".
Actually it is an or, B.C.E. only came into use extensively in recent years, it was B.C. and A.D. for a very long time before that.

B.C.E. ("before common era") and C.E. ("common era") was instituted by liberals who want to remove all mention of Christ from our lives. This doesn't even make any sense, considering that "A.D." and "B.C." were set by the very appearance of Christ. The only reason it's not perfect is because the guy (I forget his name off the top of my head) who set the timeline as we know it now, his math was a little off. But B.C. ("before christ") and A.D. ("Anno Domini" (in the year of our Lord)) should most definitely be used for the time periods.
Yes, it's extremely important to force our way of thinking on to everyone else. That's the best way to save the lost.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Korunks on July 24, 2009, 04:34:08 PM
Either way his point still stands, it can be an "or", it doesn't have to be an "and".
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on July 24, 2009, 04:41:44 PM
Either way his point still stands, it can be an "or", it doesn't have to be an "and".
It has to be an "and".
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 24, 2009, 04:47:44 PM
Either way his point still stands, it can be an "or", it doesn't have to be an "and".
It has to be an "and".

There's no reason to use "B.C.E." and "C.E." I certainly don't recognize them. Using A.D. and B.C. is not forcing our beliefs on anyone. After all, we have used this calendar for a long time. It's all a part of a liberal plot, the same people who want to remove the use of "under God" from the pledge of allegiance or the Ten Commandments from courts. We must be a country that serves God, or this country will come under judgment (some believe it already has, and will only get worse). Look at Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Professoralstad on July 24, 2009, 04:52:05 PM
FWIW, 'or' is only inappropriate if one of the choices is false. A.D and B.C.E are commonly accepted, so 'or' is definitely an option. If it's 'and', all our dates this year should read: 2009 A.D.C.E. Which just seems silly to me.

And while I don't really care if people insist on using B.C.E and C.E instead of the traditional ones, I think it's a bit strange. I guess Jesus is somewhere on the importance spectrum between dividing the two main eras of human history, and Lord.

And with that, I think this thread has served its purpose. There is now a new (not to mention more useful than Agabus) green N.T. Prophet, who is also a Priest. Rob has made it official, and Prophets deck users may rejoice. And this thread should be locked so that it can rest peacefully in the annals of the Ruling Questions for all time.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on July 24, 2009, 04:55:13 PM
Either way his point still stands, it can be an "or", it doesn't have to be an "and".
It has to be an "and".

There's no reason to use "B.C.E." and "C.E." I certainly don't recognize them. Using A.D. and B.C. is not forcing our beliefs on anyone. After all, we have used this calendar for a long time. It's all a part of a liberal plot, the same people who want to remove the use of "under God" from the pledge of allegiance or the Ten Commandments from courts. We must be a country that serves God, or this country will come under judgment (some believe it already has, and will only get worse). Look at Jerusalem.
You're somewhat crazy and over paranoid. I'd love to debate you on AIM sometime.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 24, 2009, 04:56:14 PM
So the official ruling is that Saint Patrick is a prophet?
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: FresnoRedemption on July 24, 2009, 04:56:45 PM
Either way his point still stands, it can be an "or", it doesn't have to be an "and".
It has to be an "and".

There's no reason to use "B.C.E." and "C.E." I certainly don't recognize them. Using A.D. and B.C. is not forcing our beliefs on anyone. After all, we have used this calendar for a long time. It's all a part of a liberal plot, the same people who want to remove the use of "under God" from the pledge of allegiance or the Ten Commandments from courts. We must be a country that serves God, or this country will come under judgment (some believe it already has, and will only get worse). Look at Jerusalem.
You're somewhat crazy and over paranoid. I'd love to debate you on AIM sometime.

I'm hoping that was meant in a spirit of love. :p
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Colin Michael on July 24, 2009, 04:59:19 PM
Either way his point still stands, it can be an "or", it doesn't have to be an "and".
It has to be an "and".

There's no reason to use "B.C.E." and "C.E." I certainly don't recognize them. Using A.D. and B.C. is not forcing our beliefs on anyone. After all, we have used this calendar for a long time. It's all a part of a liberal plot, the same people who want to remove the use of "under God" from the pledge of allegiance or the Ten Commandments from courts. We must be a country that serves God, or this country will come under judgment (some believe it already has, and will only get worse). Look at Jerusalem.
You're somewhat crazy and over paranoid. I'd love to debate you on AIM sometime.

I'm hoping that was meant in a spirit of love. :p
Most definitely. For serious though, AIM me up sometime.
Title: Re: Saint Patrick - a prohphet?
Post by: Professoralstad on July 24, 2009, 05:00:49 PM
So the official ruling is that Saint Patrick is a prophet?

Saint Patrick is a Prophet because his dreams foretold the future which did come true.
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