Author Topic: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent (Read 4701 times)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #50 on:** September 03, 2012, 01:24:07 PM »

It's not a question of first/second, it's that descriptors matter and personhood matters. Anything referring to Esau would work for both Esau and Esau the Hunter, but anything referring to Esau the Hunter specifically would only work for that particular one of Esau.

If there were to be a series of David prints into David the Psalmist, David the Giantslayer, King David and David the Seer (or something of the like), it'd be good to be able to target and refer to individual ones. I know that's somewhat hypothetical, but King David already exists, and sometimes things that he only did once he was already King refer to him at the exclusion of other David versions.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #51 on:** September 03, 2012, 01:40:57 PM »

I understand that, but I think it is confusing to new players, especially those that know the Bible. I see no reason to have inconsistent rulings. If we are claiming that the person's identity is what matters for Salome, then that should be true for all versions of David.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #52 on:** September 03, 2012, 02:15:42 PM »

Apples and oranges. TGT does not use any titles in its SA, just names (it's not John the Revelator, Pope Peter I, etc.) with the exception of MMoJ whose title is just used to distinguish her from the many other Marys in the NT. Identity matters for naming people, and titles matter for naming specific cards. TGT names people, King Amon names a specific card.

megamanlan · « **Reply #53 on:** September 03, 2012, 03:54:42 PM »

Also YMT, the point I was explaining that I mentioned answered your question is the current ruling.

The rule is that if a card notes a specific title (King David) it is only for that specific Card nothing else.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #54 on:** September 03, 2012, 04:30:04 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on September 02, 2012, 09:58:44 PM

who knows if the Salome that went to the tomb was actually Herod Antipas' daughter as well and was converted to christianity after hearing Christ at some point?

I'd just like to say that I've never really thought about this before, but now that I think about it I really hope this is true. It would be really nice if she DID end up becoming a Christian rather than just ending her life in the same place spiritually that she was in at her most famous moment.

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 03, 2012, 11:17:28 AM

As for the proposal, there is not nor will there likely be any discussion for changing the rule as it is. While suggestions to improve the game are always welcomed, I don't see any reason why this change should be made, and I don't know of any elders who do.

Chris · « **Reply #55 on:** September 03, 2012, 06:04:22 PM »

For what it's worth, I would support a change in that particular rule from "cards referring to David include King David, while cards referring to King David do not include David" to simply "all versions of David can be used by all cards referencing David" (this would extend to any other similar characters). While it's not an overly complicated piece to explain to new players, it's just one more thing to memorize, and it doesn't serve much purpose as far as I can tell.

megamanlan · « **Reply #56 on:** September 03, 2012, 08:29:19 PM »

I would actually argue that it might confuse more people with that suggestion then just updating the card to be correct.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #57 on:** September 04, 2012, 09:56:00 AM »

Quote from: Chris on September 03, 2012, 06:04:22 PM

For what it's worth, I would support a change in that particular rule from "cards referring to David include King David, while cards referring to King David do not include David" to simply "all versions of David can be used by all cards referencing David" (this would extend to any other similar characters). While it's not an overly complicated piece to explain to new players, it's just one more thing to memorize, and it doesn't serve much purpose as far as I can tell.

I guess that is what I am getting at. How many cards would actually be affected by this change?

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 03, 2012, 01:24:07 PM

It's not a question of first/second, it's that descriptors matter and personhood matters.

Where is "descriptor" defined, exactly?

It's only apples and orange to you. For a new player, they are likely to assume that Esau the Hunter is a different person than Esau, just like John the Baptist is a different person than John. I think it was silly to add such "descriptors." I think we should avoid any future ones and stick to the overarching rule for "card titles" in that personhood is the only thing that matters for targetting.

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Author Topic: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent (Read 4701 times)

Minister Polarius

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent

YourMathTeacher

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent

Minister Polarius

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent

megamanlan

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent

Prof Underwood

Re: Rule Change/Clarification: Card Text vs. Card Intent

Chris

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent

megamanlan

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent

YourMathTeacher

Re: Background from Abigail + New discussion of Card Text vs. Card Intent