Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: egilkinc on August 15, 2007, 12:01:40 PM
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hey,
Does Royal Parade involve music?
Verse: "And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet."
Artwork: Depicts a harp, trumpets, and people having a big ol' party ;D
It would seem the answer is "yes", just looking for something official ...
L8er,
Gil
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I think it would be yes because it talks about singing and a trumpet.
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Shouting isn't music, and a blast of the trumpet isn't music either. Does the context of the verse on the card indicate it was music being played on the trumpets?
Mike
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trumpets werent music...But shouting in praise is a musical thing (see praise)
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I'd say the both of those plus dancing and a parade would imply music.
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I would normally say no but the art doesn't help.
I'm just glad none of the musicverse guys are royalty or this would be a really ugly scene.
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Does the context of the verse on the card indicate it was music being played on the trumpets?
Mike
hey,
Context:
David took 30,000 men to go to Baalah Judah to retrieve the ark of the covenant. They put it on a cart and went towards Jerusalem. As they were taking it there, they were celebrating with songs, harps, lyres, tamborines, sistrums, and cymbals. This celebration was cut short when the oxen stumbled, Uzzah touched the ark, and God struck Uzzah dead. The ark was taken to the home of Obed-Edom where it sat for three months ("Yes, dear. I invited God over for dinner!" ;D ) . Then, the ark was carried back to Jerusalem. This is the point presented on Royal Parade (based on the verse). During this parade (according to NIV), David brought the ark "with rejoicing", he "danced", "with shouts and the sounds of trumpets".
The text does not say that there was music involved in the second parade, but I believe it is quite possible it was. For game-play, I believe it would be best to go with the artwork and say it does.
L8er,
Gil
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Using a trumpet to celebrate seems more musical than other uses (i.e. battle cry or announcing royalty). I understand that just blowing a trumpet or shouting in general does not make music. However, the context of this verse seems to be a continuous trumpeting and shouting. I would equate this to most metal music these days. ;D
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I'm just glad none of the musicverse guys are royalty or this would be a really ugly scene.
According to the Heman animated series, Heman's true identity is Prince Adam of Eternia. ;)
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Horton hears a noise.
Mike
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I HAVE THE POWER OF GRAY BRIGADE!!
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heman and the protectors of the music verse.
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I would normally say no but the art doesn't help.
I'm just glad none of the musicverse guys are royalty or this would be a really ugly scene.
Must....find...way...to...manipulate...musicaly...
Edit: just ran thru the r.e.g. No such luck Nothing would band without some unnessisarily long combo not worth really decking cept for the fact to do it...so....I'll just have to use gathering.
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The official answer to this question becomes all the more important now that David is considered a musician (http://cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=11377.msg173111#msg173111) and we have cards like Musician's Chambers.
All logic points to Royal Parade being musical. David danced. Dancing in and of itself isn't musical but it's not likely he was dancing to silence, random shouts or "non-musical" blasts from a trumpet. People dance to music. It's also unlikely that they had a celebretory parade with music three months prior but decided to leave all the music home this time.
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Dangit Gabe... I was gonna have myself another super-duper-secret trick up my sleeve.
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So....if this is official like Gabe says, can we put that in the REG? I'd feel more comfortable if someone starts complaining to point them to the REG where it says musicians then to the message board, but that is just me.
In Him,
Bryan
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Whoa... dude, try an edit if you want to add more.
and also david better become a musicain cause THER IS A SONG IN OUR CURCH THAT TALKS ABOUT DAVID DANCING AND DAVID SINGING
Redemption's going to use the Bible as an ultimate authority, rather than a song that might be based on tradition.
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It's being debated how 'music' should be categorized. A lament could be more poetry than music, so it may or may not be 'musical'.
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Redemption doesn't do anything? This is now the second time in three sets that cards have been developed focusing on musicians as a themed offense. If you think these cards don't do anything, I welcome you to play my current musicians offense.
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one more thing i dont get how music is now going to the most powerfull ofence now and itsgetting BIGER you know what im talking about
Whoever said it was the most powerful offense?
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The next musician's offense I hear about winning any significant tournament will be the first. That should be reason enough; it hasn't proven a thing under fire.
... yet.
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umm..... me cause it is if someone can prove to me that ANOTHER good strategy is more powerfull i will be convinced but untill than i will not
Heroless (Yes I am biased, but it is true)
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Hey,
umm..... me cause it is if someone can prove to me that ANOTHER good strategy is more powerfull i will be convinced but untill than i will not
Heroless (Yes I am biased, but it is true)
I agree...which is really sad if you know my opinions on heroless.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne (http://www.freewebs.com/redemptionne)
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Actually, I think that if you built an entire defensive deck(not heroles) and played falling away and discarded their doms, that might be more effective than wasting card space on musicians. :P
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Actually, I think that if you built an entire defensive deck(not heroles) and played falling away and discarded their doms, that might be more effective than wasting card space on musicians. :P
I know a deck like that. It is "Offenseless" Though it does have two good cards in it. You time out win 2-0 :-p. Musicians are really good just not "teh best"
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No, because I do not see it all over the message boards. I just went and looked at the T1 design board and didn't see any musician offenses on the entire first page.
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Ruling questions is not "all over the message boards", it is one part of the message boards, and not under the section where people actually talk about the decks they are building.
In the ruling section, there are exactly three questions about music on the first page, and you asked two of them.
Lastly, people asking questions about music does not automatically make musicians the most powerful offense. The most powerful offense will beat other powerful offenses in high-level tournaments. That is the first, best measure of a strategy's performance.
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I'm not mad, I am just saying that I don't see any of the things that you say are on these boards.
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:bump:
Any chance that we can get David added to the list of musicians and royal parade to the list of musical enhancements?
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David wrote many of the Psalms, and the Psalms were used as music. This is what the Jews used for singing in the synagogues. Hence, David is clearly a musician. I'll add it (if it isn't there already).
I'm not sure about Royal parade being musical. Any solid evidence and proof?
Mike
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Evidence for:
--The card art depicts a harp and tambourines
--The verse talks about the sound of trumpets (accompanied by dancing), and the previous verse (2 Samuel 6:13) talks about rejoicing
--The original parade (with Uzzah's infamous incident) had Israelites who "played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals" (2 Samuel 6:5, KJV). It would make sense for this parade to have some of the same.
Evidence against:
--Trumpets aren't always musical (see Trumpet Blast)
I would argue that even though trumpets aren't always musical, there would seem to be no other reason why they would be present than for making music in this case, especially when there is dancing involved. For trumpet blast they were used as a type of alarm, or even a weapon from a certain perspective. I don't know why either of these 'non-musical' uses would apply to a parade.
I say yes.
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I agree, it seems musical enough to me.
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Evidence for:
--The card art depicts a harp and tambourines
--The verse talks about the sound of trumpets (accompanied by dancing), and the previous verse (2 Samuel 6:13) talks about rejoicing
--The original parade (with Uzzah's infamous incident) had Israelites who "played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals" (2 Samuel 6:5, KJV). It would make sense for this parade to have some of the same.
Evidence against:
--Trumpets aren't always musical (see Trumpet Blast)
I would argue that even though trumpets aren't always musical, there would seem to be no other reason why they would be present than for making music in this case, especially when there is dancing involved. For trumpet blast they were used as a type of alarm, or even a weapon from a certain perspective. I don't know why either of these 'non-musical' uses would apply to a parade.
I say yes.
+1
I was basically typing up the same thing but Prof A beat me to it. Thank you. :)
Additionally, if David wasn't dancing to music, what exactly was he dancing to?
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Evidence for:
--The card art depicts a harp and tambourines
--The verse talks about the sound of trumpets (accompanied by dancing), and the previous verse (2 Samuel 6:13) talks about rejoicing
--The original parade (with Uzzah's infamous incident) had Israelites who "played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals" (2 Samuel 6:5, KJV). It would make sense for this parade to have some of the same.
Evidence against:
--Trumpets aren't always musical (see Trumpet Blast)
I would argue that even though trumpets aren't always musical, there would seem to be no other reason why they would be present than for making music in this case, especially when there is dancing involved. For trumpet blast they were used as a type of alarm, or even a weapon from a certain perspective. I don't know why either of these 'non-musical' uses would apply to a parade.
I say yes.
+1
I was basically typing up the same thing but Prof A beat me to it. Thank you. :)
Additionally, if David wasn't dancing to music, what exactly was he dancing to?
The voices in his head humming obviously.
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Bump. Still looking for a ruling.
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Replying to this because it was brought to the attention of several Elders by a player:
I will restate my opinion that Royal Parade is musical for the reasons I gave (and can be seen in the post that Chronic Apathy quoted). Any other Elders care to comment?
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I agree that it's musical.
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why does you need it to be moosical anyvay
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why does you need it to be moosical anyvay
So then the guy who recurs Musical enhancements can recur it, it can go into Musicians' Chambers for David to use, etc.
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Yeah, this would really boost my musical offense, which causes me simultaneously to love and fear this idea.
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Yeah, this would really boost my musical offense, which causes me simultaneously to love and fear this idea.
True. We probably shouldn't give musicians this kind of power. Everyone would be using them then.
"The Garden Tomb? Why would I use The Garden Tomb? None of the Heroes listed on it are musicians, silly."
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True. We probably shouldn't give musicians this kind of power. Everyone would be using them then.
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
*pant* No! :laugh: *pant* *choke* stop it! :laugh:
Seriously Prof, you are too funny!
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I agree with the other Elders that this card should be considered musical :)
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As do I, and I'm not an elder.
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Finally, something gets ruled in the favor of abuse. Yay.
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I also agree.
Kevin Shride
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so is it official?
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There don't appear to be any strong objections to it.
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Tonight Rob confirmed what the elders have already agreed on, Royal Parade is musical. :)
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Tonight Rob confirmed what the elders have already agreed on, Royal Parade is musical. :)
And there was much rejoicing.
Hooraaaaay...
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We should have a Royal Parade to celebrate.
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We should have a Royal Parade to celebrate.
Too bad we don't have any royalty...
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Too bad we don't have any royalty...
Apparently you're forgetting Jeremy (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?action=profile;u=17) :)
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Where is King Jo when you need him.....