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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: redemption collector 777 on September 02, 2013, 10:51:36 PM
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I have been playing redemption card game many times , but still have lots of certain questions to ask.
I have a question about " Can not be prevented"
Does a can not be prevented mean , it can not stopped regardless of any negate or prevent ability that is already happening?
For example
The Strong Angel (Kings) 10/8
All special abilities on non-warrior class characters and non-weapon class enhancements are negated
and is blocked by Fallen Angel (Priests) 6/8
May band to a demon
Cannot be prevented by a silver brigade Hero
Is Fallen Angel's special ability not negated by The Strong Angel because it can not be prevented ahead of time?
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Cannot be prevented means it cannot be stopped by something that is trying to prevent it, that is prevent abilities and negates that have already activated (such as The Strong Angel after he has entered battle).
So yes, Fallen Angel works against The Strong Angel (unless someone bands the Strong Angel into battle, then he would negate a Fallen Angel that was already in battle).
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How about , the moment I place a hero in the field of battle (no blocker is presented at the time) , am I allowed to play any good enhancement with the words "interrupt the battle"
at any time during the battle phase (unless any evil cards say can not be interrupted or can not be negated)
or do I need to wait , until a blocker is presented before I can play any "interrupt the battle" good enhancements?
Quick example:
I begin a rescue attempt with Ruth 4/4 (white brigade No special ability) and then could I right away play a White enhancement card Words of Encouragement
Holder may interrupt the battle draw 3 cards and play the next enhancement.
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How about , the moment I place a hero in the field of battle (no blocker is presented at the time) , am I allowed to play any good enhancement with the words "interrupt the battle"
at any time during the battle phase (unless any evil cards say can not be interrupted or can not be negated)
or do I need to wait , until a blocker is presented before I can play any "interrupt the battle" good enhancements?
No, you can only play enhancements in battle when you have initiative (or a play ability) to play them, this includes interrupt cards.
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So if my opponent has initiative and plays an enhancement card , could I then play an interrupt card to momentarily suspend their special ability on it until the effect on the interrupt card is done?
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So if my opponent has initiative and plays an enhancement card , could I then play an interrupt card to momentarily suspend their special ability on it until the effect on the interrupt card is done?
This is a tough question to answer because the answer is "depends."
1. Depends on if he is removing you from battle, then the answer is yes by way of special initiative
1a. Depends on if his card is not removing you from battle but does increase numbers to where you are losing then yes by regular initiative.
2. Depends on if he is removing a card from your deck that you don't want him to do (like Confusion taking SoG out of your deck) but he is still losing by the numbers then no..because it is still his initiative because he is losing by numbers.
Interrupt does momentarily suspend but only if you are allowed to play the card.
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interesting....
Example
If Noah's Sons 6/7 (Gold brigade) is in battle with Wandering Spirit 3/4 (AP) (gold brigade) and the blocker has initiative , and plays Denial of Christ enhancement (no numbers on it)
Take any N.T Hero prisoner and targets one of my N.T heroes in my territory , could I do anything to put a stop to the capture at this point of battle?
Could Noah's Sons then play ' Fall like Lightning" Gold/Purple enhancement card "Interrrupt the battle and discard a demon in play" to discard the blocker?
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interesting....
Example
If Noah's Sons 6/7 (Gold brigade) is in battle with Wandering Spirit 3/4 (AP) (gold brigade) and the blocker has initiative , and plays Denial of Christ enhancement (no numbers on it)
Take any N.T Hero prisoner and targets one of my N.T heroes in my territory , could I do anything to put a stop to the capture at this point of battle?
Could Noah's Sons then play ' Fall like Lightning" Gold/Purple enhancement card "Interrrupt the battle and discard a demon in play" to discard the blocker?
No, he is still losing by the numbers so it is still his initiative, so you cannot play any enhancements.
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1. Depends on if he is removing you from battle, then the answer is yes by way of special initiative
Does removing a character from battle that targets a hero in battle include any special abilities that either " Discard , remove from the game , Capture or return to hand or territory?"
Example:
Reassuring Angel 9/7 is being removed from battle by Wondering Spirit 3/4 with an evil enhancement card Denial of Christ (take any N.T hero prisoner) could Reassuring Angel then by special initiative play any silver enhancement cards that would Interrupt or negate the Denial of Christ enhancement?
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Yes. Any ability that takes a character from battle (regardless of where it's ending up), if the target is that person's last character in battle, which Reassuring Angel is in your case, causes special initiative and you can play an interrupt/negate.
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What if , during a battle a card that has a special ability on it "Draw a card" or "Search deck for a certain card" is later in battle negated?
What should the player who used that draw or search card do?
Should they put the found card back in there own draw pile and shuffle , regardless if that card was in their hand or already in the field of play?
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What if , during a battle a card that has a special ability on it "Draw a card" or "Search deck for a certain card" is later in battle negated?
What should the player who used that draw or search card do?
Should they put the found card back in there own draw pile and shuffle , regardless if that card was in their hand or already in the field of play?
The drawn cards go back to the top of the deck, searched cards are shuffled back in.
As a side note when looking at the REG entry for draw I noticed there is no longer a clause about shuffling if four or more cards are drawn. I know when had at least been in the old REG, did this rule get changed?
Draw > Special Conditions
If a draw ability is negated and 3 or less cards are drawn then return the drawn cards to the deck in the same order they were drawn. If more than three cards were drawn then shuffle the cards into the deck.
I'm kind of surprised that was actually in the REG. :P
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I am not exactly sure how immune and Ignore abilities are played so I just need some clarification.
Is an ignore ability played like this?
If a hero is ignoring an evil character during a rescue attempt , the hero is giving the evil character unlimited initiative to play as many enhancements until the blocker is done.
If the ignore ability is not interrupted or negated during battle , both characters return to their own territory and the rescue attempt is successful?
and an Immune ability?:
If Character A is immune to character B , would you treat character A as having infinity toughness to Character B to decide the battle outcome? (if it is a stalemate or character b is being defeated or not?)
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Uh-oh, no you done it. Don't you know that we have a gentleman's agreement not to use ignore abilities because it gets questioned every time it is used?
Joking aside:
In a one-on-one battle the evil character would have infinite initiative, but could not target the ignoring hero.
Yes both go to territory and the rescue is successful.
Yes, Immune means Character A has infinite initiative and can not be target by any character(s) he is immune to.
Actually, you seem to understand this one pretty well
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Have three questions about ignore when characters are banded:
Example:
Samson 6/6 (no SA) is blocked by Lot's wife (Black brigade) 3/3 which is banded to 7/7 (crimson) Herod Agrippa 1
Samson plays Peace (ignores black brigade)
List of Questions
1. Let's assume that the characters are banded and one of the heroes in this list ignores one evil brigade color: Does the infinite initiative still apply if
2 different brigade heroes vs 2 different brigade Evil characters
2 different brigade heroes vs 1 EC
1 Hero vs 2 different brigade EC
2. Can Herod Agrippa 1 play any crimson enhancements to target Samson? because Samson is not ignoring Crimson?
3. Can Lot's wife play any black enhancement cards that could only negate or interrupt the Peace card? or does the ignore need to be negated or interrupted by another brigade color? at the time?
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1. Infinite initiative only applies if an entire side is being ignored. If the ignored side has initiative and you play enhancements on the ignored character (to target other things) then you can effectively have infinite initiative but as soon as you play something on the non-ignored character initiative would be re-evaluated.
2. Yes, any brigade not being ignored can affect the Hero normally.
3. You could play a black interrupt/negate to negate Peace. For example, you could play Joseph in Prison (Interrupt the battle and remove all cards in battle from the game) on Lot's Wife to interrupt the ignore.
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Can your opponent present a new blocker or is it a successful rescue if :
I place a hero in the battle field , and then the moment the blocker is entered into the battle field , I play Angel of the lord to discard the blocker? (Does the special ability on the EC have to take effect first then I could Angel of the Lord?)
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Can your opponent present a new blocker or is it a successful rescue if :
I place a hero in the battle field , and then the moment the blocker is entered into the battle field , I play Angel of the lord to discard the blocker?
You can only pay Angel of the Lord once your opponent has used the ability of the Evil Character (or chooses not to). If you play Angel after that, then he cannot present a new blocker unless a special ability allows him to. A few special abilities that may allow that are Unknown Nation and Gates of Hell.
However, it is also important to note that it may not be a successful rescue immediately after you play AotL either. Your opponent may still play Christian Martyr to discard your Hero, Burial to discard the only available Lost Soul, Unholy Writ to capture your Hero, among other things. So Angel will win you the rescue attempt in many cases, but not automatically.
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I heard somebody mention to me about a new rule for dominants and is posted on the redemption forums somewhere but I am not completely sure about it.
They said something like if 2 Son of Gods are played from 2 different players and both choose to rescue the same lost soul ,
the 1st Son of God that was played goes to the discard pile without making a rescue and the 2nd one played does?
A Dominant interrupting another Dominant??? is this possible?
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I heard somebody mention to me about a new rule for dominants and is posted on the redemption forums somewhere but I am not completely sure about it.
They said something like if 2 Son of Gods are played from 2 different players and both choose to rescue the same lost soul ,
the 1st Son of God that was played goes to the discard pile without making a rescue and the 2nd one played does?
A Dominant interrupting another Dominant??? is this possible?
1st and foremost. No, Dominants can not interrupt each other.
The only rule that I can think of related to this scenario is that Redemption created a way to avoid "slapjack" situations that make it hard for a judge to determine what really happened. In this scenario, when 2 dominants are played at nearly the same time (within a second of each other), the judge relies on a rule to help sort out the ensuing argument.
The rule is this (remember slapjack only): The player (A) who played a dominant in response to their own action gets precedent over the player (B) who played their dominant at the same moment. Nothing was interrupted...just precedent was established.
Bonus info: the only soul that can be rescued by 2 different son of Gods is the "2-Liner Lost Souls" card. It is a card with 2 women on it that only has 2 lines of text that say something like: "This lost soul must be rescued twice to count."
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Just wanted to say ahead of time thank you for your time to those who have taken the time to answer my lots of questions I have asked in this single topic (Even though I still have more to ask)
Have two questions about decrease abilities and one question about healing.
Example
Hero Euodia 5/5 (Green) is blocked by Locust from the Pit (Black) 6/6
Euodia plays enhancement card endurance to increase 2/2 Now 7/7
Locust plays Hunger Decrease heroes by 6/6 if */0 discard hero.
1.Do you apply the decrease of 6/6 to the hero's original abilities of 5/5 (in this case discard) or to the current abilities of 7/7?
2.If an enhancement card says decrease a hero by a certain amount but does not specify if hero reaches */0 discard hero and it causes the hero to have 0 toughness in battle ,is the hero discarded even though the enhancement did not mention if */0 discard hero?
Heal question: Can any good card with the word heal in it , heal a hero with an evil enhancement on them (like Destructive sin? which says place on a hero negate heroes SA and it's owners good fortress etc)
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Hero Euodia 5/5 (Green) is blocked by Locust from the Pit (Black) 6/6
Euodia plays enhancement card endurance to increase 2/2 Now 7/7
Locust plays Hunger Decrease heroes by 6/6 if */0 discard hero.
1.Do you apply the decrease of 6/6 to the hero's original abilities of 5/5 (in this case discard) or to the current abilities of 7/7?
2.If an enhancement card says decrease a hero by a certain amount but does not specify if hero reaches */0 discard hero and it causes the hero to have 0 toughness in battle ,is the hero discarded even though the enhancement did not mention if */0 discard hero?
Heal question: Can any good card with the word heal in it , heal a hero with an evil enhancement on them (like Destructive sin? which says place on a hero negate heroes SA and it's owners good fortress etc)
1. I believe you apply the decrease to the Hero directly but any enhancements can allow them to survive through the remainder of the battle (i.e. Euodia would still be in battle at 1/1). When she returns to territory she would then be discarded by game rule since her toughness is 0 or lower.
2. Discarding characters with toughness 0 or lower is a game rule, Hunger just has clarifying text on it to remind you of that rule. As such, any decrease ability that causes 0 or lower toughness will lead to the character being discarded.
3. Heal does not by default remove evil cards. Heal can heal from discard, poison, and disease but doesn't undo or remove anything else (that I'm aware of) except maybe decrease (I don't remember if it includes that or not).
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I am wondering about the artifact card HHI (House Hold Idols) and other questions.
In the redemption live Visualizer it says HHI it played as
Banding of heroes is prevented
Good banding cards are ignored
1. Since HHI is preventing heroes from banding could Elders of Jerusalem still enter battle because banding can not be interrupted or prevented? or no because they are still a good banding card which are ignored?
2. While HHI is active during a battle , could a hero still use any good enhancements with a banding ability that says it can not be prevented or negated?
Other Question #1
If Michael (kings) SA: Enhancements used by Michael can not be negated and is blocked by
Job's wife (Gray) SA: All special abilities on Character cards and enhancement cards except this one are negated Battle is determined by the numbers.
Does this mean Michael's SA is negated? because the card did not say anything that his SA can not be negated?
Other Question #2
Holy of Holies artifact
Does Holy of Holies only affect characters that try to stop other cards SA from activating?
But can it stop Balaam's SA(disciples) Pale Green : ... Prevent Special abilities on enhancements Can not be prevented.
Other Question #3.
It seems like to me any words on a card that says "No" or "May not" are a prevent ability. Would this be true?
Because artifact Wool fleece says No Evil Character may band (assuming evil banding enhancements do not work as well?).
Redemption live Visualizer says it plays as Evil characters are prevented from banding.
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1. Elders of Jerusalem cannot enter battle because he is being ignored.
2. Ignoring an enhancement doesn't prevent it from entering battle so as long as the banding enhancement is "Cannot be prevented" or "Cannot be negated" then it would work (95% sure).
OQ1. Abilities that grant other cards "Cannot be (interrupted/prevented/negated)" status are inherently "Cannot be negated" so Michael can play enhancements for full effect even if blocked by Lot's Wife.
OQ2. Holy of Holies prevents all interrupt, prevent, and negate abilities on Characters so any Character ability with those words is prevented. For example, the new Ruth (Negate evil characters) would be prevented by Holy of Holies. Job's Wife (from the example above) would also be prevented by HoH. HoH can NOT prevent Balaam because he is "Cannot be prevented."
OQ3. It isn't so much the "may not" wording that determines what type of ability it is insomuch as it's what the card targets. Wool Fleece targets evil characters so it's a prevent. An example of something with "may not" that is NOT a prevent is Darius' Decree (Opponents may not play good Enhancements from hand.......). Since it targets players, it's a restrict ability.
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OQ1. Abilities that grant other cards "Cannot be (interrupted/prevented/negated)" status are inherently "Cannot be negated" so Michael can play enhancements for full effect even if blocked by Lot's Wife.
To make sure I completely understand even if Job's wife blocks Thomas (blue)SA :All enhancements played on Thomas may not be , prevented , interrupted or negated. Thomas SA is not negated by Job's wife?
Also
I noticed that the Teal/Green Jeremiah card says "May use Enhancements with a Jeremiah reference regardless of brigade....
Does this mean he can use Evil enhancements with that same reference as well because it did not say "May use Good Enhancements with a Jeremiah reference regardless of brigade?
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Does this mean he can use Evil enhancements with that same reference as well because it did not say "May use Good Enhancements with a Jeremiah reference regardless of brigade?
Nope.
"Characters may only use enhancements of the same brigade as themselves" is a "soft" game rule, and is able to be overridden by Jeremiah's special ability.
"Characters may only use enhancements of the same alignment as themselves" is a "hard" game rule, and can NOT be overridden by any special abilities.
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To make sure I completely understand even if Job's wife blocks Thomas (blue)SA :All enhancements played on Thomas may not be , prevented , interrupted or negated. Thomas SA is not negated by Job's wife?
That is correct. Thomas' ability is inherently "Cannot be negated" so Job's Wife cannot negate him.
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If a hero has already played 2 good enhancements with a SA on them and completed their effect and then an evil character plays Devourer SA: Interrupt and discard all good enhancements now in battle.
Does this mean the 2 good enhancement effects must be undone (as they were interrupted) and then discarded?
( Assuming since the cards are not in battle the effect on them can not reactivate?)
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Yes, you are correct, and your assumption is correct as well.
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I don't believe the first GE played would only be interrupted if the ability was ongoing.
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I don't believe the first GE played would only be interrupted if the ability was ongoing.
No it interrupts them all, because it says "interrupt all." You can interrupt completed non-ongoing abilities so long as you can target it, and devourer does (unlike interrupt the battle, which it seems you are thinking of)
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Oops. Missed the "all" part. But a card that only says "interrupt the battle" would only interrupt the last card played and on-going abilities, correct?
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Oops. Missed the "all" part. But a card that only says "interrupt the battle" would only interrupt the last card played and on-going abilities, correct?
The last enhancement played (assuming it was played by an opponent) and all on going abilities
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1.The visualizer site says "Pride in the flesh" orange enhancement says it is considered Interrupt last ( which I am assuming interrupt the last enhancement)
SA "Interrupt Kingdoms of the world and release up to X demons from an evil fortress and band them into battle"
is this considered interrupt the last enhancement or battle even though it does not say "interrupt the battle or last enhancement on it?"
2. When a hero is being removed from battle by a SA and has special initiative can they play any enhancement card that says" Interrupt the battle or last enhancement?"
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1.The visualizer site says "Pride in the flesh" orange enhancement says it is considered Interrupt last ( which I am assuming interrupt the last enhancement)
SA "Interrupt Kingdoms of the world and release up to X demons from an evil fortress and band them into battle"
is this considered interrupt the last enhancement or battle even though it does not say "interrupt the battle or last enhancement on it?"
2. When a hero is being removed from battle by a SA and has special initiative can they play any enhancement card that says" Interrupt the battle or last enhancement?"
That seems to be an error on the visualizer. It only interrupts KotW, not the last enhancement nor the battle.
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When a hero is being removed from battle by a SA and has special initiative can they play any enhancement card that says" Interrupt the battle or last enhancement?"
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When a hero is being removed from battle by a SA and has special initiative can they play any enhancement card that says" Interrupt the battle or last enhancement?"
Yes, as long as there aren't any other Heroes in battle, and the SA that is removing the Hero(es) can be interrupted or negated (i.e. it doesn't have a "cannot be interrupted" or "cannot be negated" ability on it). The Hero can also play a card that negates the special ability in those cases as well (i.e. the card doesn't have to say interrupt if it says negate).
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As long as it's a usable brigade, yes.
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Would this situation be a successful rescue attempt if...
Samson 6/6 is blocked by Saph 10/10
Samson (Judge) plays Samson's Sacrifice 8/-1 enhancement
SA: If used by a judge , negate and discard one O.T Evil fortress or occupied site in play to discard all cards in battle....
or Samson 6/6 is blocked by Saph and Goliath 20/20 and then plays it
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Would this situation be a successful rescue attempt if...
Samson 6/6 is blocked by Saph 10/10
Samson (Judge) plays Samson's Sacrifice 8/-1 enhancement
SA: If used by a judge , negate and discard one O.T Evil fortress or occupied site in play to discard all cards in battle....
or Samson 6/6 is blocked by Saph and Goliath 20/20 and then plays it
No. Heroes only rescue if they either win the battle or there is mutual destruction by the numbers. In this case its mutual destruction by a special ability, the hero does not rescue.
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Could a hero still go for a rescue attempt , even though they already played the son of god card on the same turn?
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Yes.
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Question 1
Can a Green brigade hero use a green set aside enhancement on a blue brigade hero in the same territory?
Like Miriam uses set aside enhancement Provisions on Mark (blue)?
Question 2
If you have Unsuccessful curse in play which says SA Negate the last good enhancement played
this battle.
or if you have Covenant of Noah SA Interrupt and prevent one evil enhancement
Do you have to apply their effect right when the first enhancement is played in battle or can you wait during the battle and instead negate their 2nd or 3rd enhancement played in battle?
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Q1: If Miriam and Mark are in your territory then Provisions can set Mark aside. The enhancement is used by Miriam (Green) to target Mark (blue).
Q2: You can wait to negate the enhancement you want, assuming it is not CBN or CBI.
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Is a Covenant still considered an artifact even though it is categorized separately on the redemption live site?
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It can be targeted as both an artifact and an enhancement while in deck, discard pile, hand. It can only be targeted as an artifact or covenant while in the artifact pile. It is still a covenant.
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If an EC has a weapon class enhancement like Swift horses
SA :Interrupt the battle and draw two cards. If used by a Babylonian you may play the the next enhancement
Let's assume the weapon class enhancement is used by a Babylonian character , can you use the SA on the card at anytime during the battle? or does it need to be used right when they enter battle?
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Weapon-class enhancements activate when they enter battle (assuming they aren't being prevented) and their abilities are carried out then. A Babylonian with Swift Horses would get to draw 2 and play next immediately upon blocking.
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Let's say if Peter (ap) red brigade is blocked by Herod Agrippa 1 SA : Capture Peter
If Peter is about to be captured ( which I think gives special initiative to Peter)
could you play an enhancement like The Might of Faith : SA Negate the SA on an evil character in battle.. and stop the capture from happening?
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Indeed you could. Since Peter is your only Hero and he's being removed from battle, you have special initiative to interrupt and/or negate the removal if you have something that can target the Evil Character, which Might of Faith can totally do.
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What would happen if a side battle is later negated?
Do you have to undo the things that happened in that side battle?
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What would happen if a side battle is later negated?
Do you have to undo the things that happened in that side battle?
Yes, unless those things were done because of cannot be interrupted or cannot be negated abilities. Also note that enhancements that were played in the side battle that were played and then discarded will remain discarded even if the side battle is negated.
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Question 1:
Does a "Interrupt the battle" enhancement always momentarily suspend or undo an effect of the last enhancement (in this case the last evil enhancement played ) played in battle even if the hero using the interrupt ability just has regular initiative and not special initiative?
Question 2:
Could a hero be placed in the fortress card The Name of the Lord " If you have initiative you may interrupt the battle and place your hero on this fortress..
if the hero is losing by the numbers by regular initiative?
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1: Yes it does. If your opponent plays Great Image (a non-battle winner) and initiative passes to you by numbers and you play an ItB, it would interrupt Great Image.
2: Yes. Anytime you have initiative (of any kind, including both normal and special) you can use NotL's special ability.
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Just to clarify the last question , if a interrupt the battle is played it only interrupts the last enhancement played and not the 2nd or 3rd last one played?
I am not completely sure about the EC Trembling demon sa?
SA says : If no good enhancement is played this battle protect all LS from rescue. Opponent may discard a good enhancement to negate this.
1. So what if a good enhancement is played during the battle when the this character is in battle? Can the Lost souls be rescued at this point?
2. Is it possible for an artifact SA to be active even though it is shuffled back into draw pile?
Like using Angelic advice enhancement? SA: Shuffle all artifact piles in play back into each players draw pile. Active artifacts are shuffled but not negated.
3. In the current rules of redemption does it say anything that if you run out of cards in your deck you lose the game?
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2: Yes. Anytime you have initiative (of any kind, including both normal and special) you can use NotL's special ability.
Clarification: To be able to use The Name of the Lord during Special Initiative, it must be able to interrupt the ability causing SI. That is, it must be in battle, because The Name of the Lord only has interrupt the battle. If the ability comes from outside the battle (i.e. Unholy Writ, Magic Charms, Herod's Dungeon, etc.), TNotL cannot be used.
Just to clarify the last question , if a interrupt the battle is played it only interrupts the last enhancement played and not the 2nd or 3rd last one played?
From the REG:
The phrase “interrupt the battle” includes interrupting the following:
o all active ongoing abilities
o abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle
o the last card played in current battle if it was played by your opponent.
Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle.
1. So what if a good enhancement is played during the battle when the this character is in battle? Can the Lost souls be rescued at this point?
2. Is it possible for an artifact SA to be active even though it is shuffled back into draw pile?
3. In the current rules of redemption does it say anything that if you run out of cards in your deck you lose the game?
1. Yes, they can, because the protection is not in effect. It only goes into effect if it was not negated and no good enhancement was played.
2. Yes. Any ability that is not negated and is not contingent on the card being in its location (some artifacts saying "While in play" or something along those lines, those would 'turn off' if leaving play due to the condition being false), then the ability persists through the end of the current phase. You have to negate the ability for it to 'turn off' in those cases, as just removing the card doesn't do it on its own.
3. Nothing happens, you just don't have a deck, there is no current penalty or effect.
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2: Yes. Anytime you have initiative (of any kind, including both normal and special) you can use NotL's special ability.
Clarification: To be able to use The Name of the Lord during Special Initiative, it must be able to interrupt the ability causing SI. That is, it must be in battle, because The Name of the Lord only has interrupt the battle. If the ability comes from outside the battle (i.e. Unholy Writ, Magic Charms, Herod's Dungeon, etc.), TNotL cannot be used.
If we're being nit picky then you have to specify Magic Charms outside of battle. MC on a magician in battle CAN be interrupted by ItB (per your quote above "abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"). ::)
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"abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"
This doesn't say the ability has to originate in battle, why doesn't it stop MC outside battle or UW?
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"abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"
This doesn't say the ability has to originate in battle, why doesn't it stop MC outside battle or UW?
Because of the later clause: "Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle."
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If we're being nit picky then you have to specify Magic Charms outside of battle. MC on a magician in battle CAN be interrupted by ItB (per your quote above "abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"). ::)
Ha, you caught me. I made the distinction in the other thread this came up, forgot to include it here ;)
"abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"
This doesn't say the ability has to originate in battle, why doesn't it stop MC outside battle or UW?
Because of the later clause: "Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle."
Exactly, you can only use an ability during Special Initiative that interrupts or negates the source of the removal. It's the same thing with a CBN or CBI ability; just because it would cause SI doesn't mean you actually get to do anything. You don't have anything that can undo it, so it resolves. In this case, TNotL can't interrupt anything outside of battle, so you can't use it during SI.
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Even though the 4th edition rulebook says
Losing by Removal (because of a
Special Ability)
A Hero is losing by removal if the last Hero in battle
is being discarded, withdrawn, underdecked, or
otherwise removed from battle by an opposing
special ability. You have initiative, but you may only
play an enhancement that has a “negate” special
ability.
Could you still play an enhancement during special initiative that interrupts the battle even though 4th edition does not specify?
Just wanted to make sure.
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Is that really what the new rulebook says? Eek! It should definitely say "negate" or "interrupt."
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Yes, you may play an interrupt as long as it can interrupt the special ability causing your removal. For example, if they play an enhancement that captures you, an "interrupt the battle" or "interrupt an evil card" could be played. If, however, they discard Unholy Writ to capture you, you cannot play an "interrupt the battle" card because Unholy Writ is not in battle.
*instaposted*
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Yes, you may play an interrupt as long as it can interrupt the special ability causing your removal.
That should also be specified in the rulebook. Is none of this in there? Or is it just somewhere else (which is still a problem)?
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Yes YMT it is true it does not say anything about " or interrupt" in it. (Hope it does not change anything about interrupt)
Please be sure to check it out at the cactus game design website the Pdf of the 4th edition rule book.
It also in the back of the book in the definitions it does not define Interrupt , fortresses , artifacts or sites? (even though the newer tin has an artifact , fortress and site in it)
If you have looked at it , please post your thoughts on it.
What does the forums think?
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or if the 4th edition rule book does not specify interrupt in it , maybe the latest rules on the forums or 10th Anniversary rule book should only apply to the special initiative on interrupt.
or maybe the definitions were only specified for that deck only , as the deck has some "Negate" cards in it.
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The Elders have mentioned that the 4th Edition Rulebook will (eventually) have a companion extended rulebook so perhaps the clarifications will be in there (as you said, the 4th Edition may be mostly referring to the decks it comes with).
No telling when that will be released, though. :P
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Speaking of interrupt
Since interrupt , interrupts all ongoing abilities does this mean example:
Purple hero 3/3 is blocked by Prince of this World 10/12 SA: Immune to lone heroes
Purple hero plays Fall like lightning SA: interrupt the battle and discard a demon in play..
Because Prince of this world's immune ability has been interrupted does this mean the discard can target Prince?
2nd example:
Purple hero 3/3 is blocked by Abner 9/8 (Kings) SA: Character has First Strike. Can not be negated...
Purple hero plays Reach of desperation enhancement (interrupt the battle enhancement)
Since Abner's First Strike can not be negated does this mean when the Reach enhancement is played its SA does not activate but rather the numbers only count?
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1. Yes, Fall Like Lightning would be able to discard Prince of This World in that scenario. Interrupt the battle interrupts PoTW's ongoing immunity.
2. Reach of Desperation still activates and interrupts the battle, it just can't interrupt Abner's First Strike. It would interrupt any other non-CBN/CBI ongoing abilities on cards in battle and you'd get to draw/play if you wanted to.
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I got several more questions to ask all in one posting.
1. Is this correct? When a hero is protected from evil cards (like protection of Angels(priests) , this means it is only protected from evil SA and not the the strength or toughness of the EC in battle.
2. What would happen if a player's hero is being removed in battle by Special initiative , and the player plays Aotl and discards the opponent's blocker?
Does the SA causing special in still activate? as a dominant do not negate SA on other cards? or is it the "Targets must be in play rule?"
3.If an EC is losing because of Special initiative , could they use Unholy writ to capture hero instead?
4. Can all enhancement cards with the word "Heal " (expect the enhancement card "Miracle of healing SA: Heal any hero who has been poisoned or diseased" ) heal a character that was recently discarded in the same turn?
5.Could you play the heal enhancement on a teal character in your territory " Purifying the Unclean" SA "Heal a hero in play.. Discard all evil cards placed on that hero. and heal a character from discard pile?
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I got several more questions to ask all in one posting.
1. Is this correct? When a hero is protected from evil cards (like protection of Angels(priests) , this means it is only protected from evil SA and not the the strength or toughness of the EC in battle. No. Protection from evil cards protects from strength on evil cards as well.
2. What would happen if a player's hero is being removed in battle by Special initiative , and the player plays Aotl and discards the opponent's blocker? Unless the special ability that caused the special initiative is interrupted, the Hero(es) would still be affected by the special ability. You can discard the blocker with AotL, but not before the special ability takes effect.
Does the SA causing special in still activate? as a dominant do not negate SA on other cards? or is it the "Targets must be in play rule?" As said before, you can not play AotL during special initiative. Dominants do not negate other cards unless they have a negate/interrupt ability.
3.If an EC is losing because of Special initiative , could they use Unholy writ to capture hero instead? Similar to the AotL situation, you can use Writ on the attacking Hero, but the special ability is still carried out, as Unholy Writ does not interrupt it. This is a common play with Writ however, as if you capture the only Hero in battle after your EC is defeated, the block is successful.
4. Can all enhancement cards with the word "Heal " (expect the enhancement card "Miracle of healing SA: Heal any hero who has been poisoned or diseased" ) heal a character that was recently discarded in the same turn? Yes. Healing enahncements (i.e. any enhancement with "Heal in the SA") can be played at any time in a turn (but must follow rules of initiative in battle) as long as it can target a Hero that is "healable" (i.e. was discarded in the same turn, or is currently poisoned and diseased). Miracle of Healing can be played at any time as other Healing cards (as long as there is a poisoned/diseased Hero in your territory), but you are correct that it cannot Heal a discarded Hero.
5.Could you play the heal enhancement on a teal character in your territory " Purifying the Unclean" SA "Heal a hero in play.. Discard all evil cards placed on that hero. and heal a character from discard pile? Yes. Healing cards that say "in play" can also heal Heroes that have been discarded from play.
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1. Could a EC negate or interrupt a withdraw from battle (ex like Flight of spies enhancement 0/7 ) ability used by a hero , if it causes the EC to have regular initiative by the numbers?
2. This question is about ignore.
How would initiative apply if these situations happened?
Examples:
Hero Samson (gold) is blocked by Lot's wife (black brigade) which is banded to Er ( Pale Green) Samson plays enhancement Peace and ignores black.
or the same thing above but Samson is banded to Mark (blue brigade) and then ignores black.
3. If a hero has first strike and then plays an enhancement that causes mutual destruction by the numbers does the hero gain the first initiative to move it away from destruction situation or does initiative go to the EC (for the whoever did not play the last card rule)
4. Are these correct?
If a hero ignores a EC , then the EC cannot be immune or ignore the hero?
If a hero is immune to the EC the the EC cannot ignore the hero?
5. Could hero The Strong Angel SA: Negate all SA on characters and Enhancements , gain a set aside ability of Gathering of Angels SA set aside may band to any hero... even though the character negates all?
6. Question about Tartaros fortress.
It says" All demons that holder captures or discards are placed in Tartaros.
1. Does this mean if my demon loses in battle does it get placed in my Tartaros site?
2. if I discard one of my opponents demon does it get placed in my Tartaros site as well?
3. If so if I release one of my opponents demon it goes back to their territory etc?
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I can answer a few of these:
2. In your first example, Sampson is ignoring Lot's Wife, but Er is fair game and can interupt/negate peace. If Sampson bands to Mark and plays Peace, only Sampson is ignoring Black.
3. MDbN would be resolved normally, but if only one side has first strike, those with it will survive, if both sides have it, I believe everyone dies normally.
4b. Not sure about the first part, but if one side is immune first, the second can play an ignore, but it results in a stalemate as the opposing side was immune to the loss causing portion of the ignore ability.
5. Abilities gained from set aside are CBN. Which is why gathering Strong Angel and then banding him to Michael works so very well...
6a. I don't think so, I believe you have to play an ability that causes your demon to be discarded.
6b. Yes
6c. No, it says release to holder's territory.
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if both sides have it, I believe everyone dies normally.
I agree with everything you posted except this part. If both sides have first strike, whichever was active first takes precedence, I believe. Not 100% sure, though.
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1. About the Anti-withdraw LS (Angel Wars)
Says: If a hero withdraws from a RA against holder , place this card beneath owner's draw pile.
Could the LS card SA be activated if a hero's RA ended in a stalemate as well? ( Like hero and EC could not defeat each other or hero got ignored by the EC that battle etc)
2. Could a EC negate or interrupt a withdraw from battle (ex like Flight of spies enhancement 0/7 ) ability used by a hero , if it causes the EC to have regular initiative by the numbers?
3. Can any of the following cards stop Dominant card Harvest time ( search for LS in opponent's deck)
-Jerusalem Tower ( no card can be removed from Holder's draw pile)
-Hezekiah's signet ring ( no opponent can search any draw or discard pile)
4. If interrupt , interrupts all ongoing SA , How can playing an interrupt enhancement successfully suspend any of the following in a battle situation? or does it really?
Copy , Hold , Increase or decrease abilities , Protect, Restrict , Site Access , Use Other enhancements
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1. No, "withdraw" is a specific special ability ("Withdraw a Hero" for example). A stalemate ends with the characters leaving battle but it's not a "withdraw" ability.
2. No, the Evil Character is winning the battle (by removal of the Hero) so they do not get initiative to interrupt/negate the withdraw.
3. Yes! Anything that protects the deck from search or removal (or, more broadly, opponents) can fizzle Harvest Time.
4. Interrupt as an umbrella ability doesn't inherently interrupt ongoing abilities, only "interrupt the battle" specifically does that, and even then it's only ongoing abilities on cards in battle. "Interrupt an evil fortress in play...." for example would not interrupt anything other than the targeted fortress. Hopefully this answers the question, if not I'd be happy to elaborate further.
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1. Is there any other way to discard any LS cards besides using burial?
if so , how can it be done?
2. Seems like artifact Hezekiah's Signet ring SA: No opponent may search any draw or discard pile would be a restrict ability.
In this case would Nebuchadnezzar (treasure card version) SA: If no Daniel hero is in play , search deck for a O.T crimson card and add it to hand or battle CBN.
Would he not be able to search for a card because the artifact is active? and the artifact is a restrict player ability and not character prevent?
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1. Burial is the only way I can think of to discard a Lost Soul from your territory (not counting captured characters as you can do lots of things with those) but any card that discards a card from deck and doesn't specify to put Lost Souls in play can discard a Soul from a deck.
2. Correct, Hezekiah's Signet Ring is a restrict so whether or not an ability is CBN it cannot search a deck if the player is being restricted from that (similar to if the deck is protected from search, such as with Nazareth).
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1. What if Saul (NT) SA: This card enters play as Saul. When Saul repents he becomes Paul , is targeted by a convert ability used by a hero in battle (lets say convert to a red brigade hero) Would the card be converted to a red brigade Saul or Paul card?
2. What if during a battle Mayhem was played first then Aotl was played second. Would Mayhem shuffle Aotl back into draw pile since it was played first? and aotl would take no effect?
3. Could a dominant card be played during Special initiative?
4. If the blocking player's EC character is defeated could they play torment SA: Heal any EC that is being discarded even though it is not their turn? and to play it they must have an EC in territory to activate it on?
5. Can you use a hero to rescue to RA from a fortress if the fortress allows any characters to be exchanged or removed during preparation phase?
6. Can you play territory , set aside or heal cards during your turn only?
7. If Eunice SA: May band to Timothy and gain 2/2 , if Eunice bands with Timothy , does the 2/2 stay on Eunice when she returns to territory? or does it have to say until discarded or something like that?
8. Could you play a territory or set aside enhancement on a character that is already set aside?
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1. What if Saul (NT) SA: This card enters play as Saul. When Saul repents he becomes Paul , is targeted by a convert ability used by a hero in battle (lets say convert to a red brigade hero) Would the card be converted to a red brigade Saul or Paul card? converts to multi Paul
2. What if during a battle Mayhem was played first then Aotl was played second. Would Mayhem shuffle Aotl back into draw pile since it was played first? and aotl would take no effect?
yes
3. Could a dominant card be played during Special initiative? no
4. If the blocking player's EC character is defeated could they play torment SA: Heal any EC that is being discarded even though it is not their turn? and to play it they must have an EC in territory to activate it on? not sure
5. Can you use a hero to rescue to RA from a fortress if the fortress allows any characters to be exchanged or removed during preparation phase? hero goes from fortress to territory (during prep phase) then enters battle (during battle phase)
6. Can you play territory , set aside or heal cards during your turn only? territory and set aside on your turn, heal cards anytime i think
7. If Eunice SA: May band to Timothy and gain 2/2 , if Eunice bands with Timothy , does the 2/2 stay on Eunice when she returns to territory? or does it have to say until discarded or something like that? If an ability says until end of turn its until end of turn otherwise it stays except for decrease ruling on Plagued with Diseases which is considered ongoing ability unless played in battle as an enhancement.
595 Lois Lois 2/2 2 Timothy 1:5 Purple H Lois may band to Eunice and gains 2/2. N
This ability to me would be ruled as a permanent increase.
Other cards include:
984 GibeoniteTrickery Gibeonite Trickery 0/4 Joshua 9:3-4 Brown EE Each Hero in battle gains 0/4 and the battle immediately ends. Ability can not be interrupted or prevented. N
2223 Di_StrengtheningAngel Strengthening Angel 7/6 Luke 22:41-42 Silver H Protect cards in your hand and deck from discard by opponent. Increase your human Heroes by 1/1. Cannot be prevented. [generic] N
all these abiliities are permanant increases i think
8. Could you play a territory or set aside enhancement on a character that is already set aside? no
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4. If the blocking player's EC character is defeated could they play torment SA: Heal any EC that is being discarded even though it is not their turn? and to play it they must have an EC in territory to activate it on?
If Good heal cards can be played regardless of turn, it would make sense that the few evil cards that exist would follow similar rules...
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Can a heal card target a character that was discarded 2 or more turns ago from the discard pile? or does it need to be in the same turn it was discarded?
Not sure about heal card torment : SA heal a evil character that is being discarded.. when would you be able to play this card?
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Heal cards, whether they specify "discarded" or "is being discarded", etc., can all target characters anytime during the same turn that the character was discarded (even during later phases). A character cannot be healed once the turn is over.
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What would be considered one full turn in a game?
Has it been one turn (in a 2 player game of redemption) if one player draws 3 cards then goes to the discard phase and then ends their turn
or is it one full turn if Player A draws 3 and then discard phase then ends and then Player B draws and ends their turn?
2. Could Benjamin's discard ability on him ( part of SA: Otherwise discard Benjamin after battle) be negated by Abraham's Servant to Ur SA: All SA except banding on characters and enhancements except this one are negated...
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A turn is the completion of Draw through Discard phases by a single player. A round is the completion of those phases by each player in the game once around the table.
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Could Benjamin's discard ability on him ( part of SA: Otherwise discard Benjamin after battle) be negated by Abraham's Servant to Ur SA: All SA except banding on characters and enhancements except this one are negated...
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2. Could Benjamin's discard ability on him ( part of SA: Otherwise discard Benjamin after battle) be negated by Abraham's Servant to Ur SA: All SA except banding on characters and enhancements except this one are negated...
Yes, it would be. Though if someone is ever in a position where they feel they have to save Benjamin with Abe's Servant, IMHO that person is playing Genesis incorrectly ;)
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I think I do realize that players really like to use The Garden Tomb fortress but I do not exactly understand it.
part of SA: ignore all evil brigades that do not have at least two characters in play.
What would be a good example of how this would be effective??
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I think I do realize that players really like to use The Garden Tomb fortress but I do not exactly understand it.
part of SA: ignore all evil brigades that do not have at least two characters in play.
What would be a good example of how this would be effective??
Let's say your opponent has Red Dragon in territory (SA: Immune to human heroes), and it's the only evil character in play. Only hero you've got is Peter, with nothing to interrupt Red Dragon in hand. Normally, you aren't getting through Red Dragon. If, however, you've got The Garden Tomb in play and active (i.e., your opponent has rescued a Lost Soul), Red Dragon is now ignored by Peter (since there's only one evil character of the crimson brigade in play). Since Peter will be ignoring Red Dragon before Red Dragon can block, Red Dragon can't even get into the field of battle. Additionally, your opponent can't even block with an evil character from hand, since no evil brigades have at least two characters in play. Barring CM or artifact intervention, Peter wins a LS without having to fight anyone.
Decks focused on TGT excel at keeping evil brigades off the table, thus allowing TGT characters to walk in for free Lost Souls.
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2. Could Benjamin's discard ability on him ( part of SA: Otherwise discard Benjamin after battle) be negated by Abraham's Servant to Ur SA: All SA except banding on characters and enhancements except this one are negated...
Yes, it would be. Though if someone is ever in a position where they feel they have to save Benjamin with Abe's Servant, IMHO that person is playing Genesis incorrectly ;)
A friend of mine came up with the idea of running hero's like these that discard themselves to meet conditions like a Job's Faith.
2205 Di_JobsFaith Job's Faith 7/0 Job 19:25 Blue HE Negate special abilities on Evil Characters. If Job is your only human Hero in play, opponent must discard 3 evil cards from hand. Cannot be negated. N
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1. The LS card (N.T only) SA: This Lost Soul may only be rescued by a N.T hero.
Does this mean it can not be rescued by the Son of god card? because it says only by a N.T hero?
2. If the LS (site doubler) SA: This Lost soul may be hold captive in a site currently occupied by another Lost Soul.
is already in a site , can another Lost Soul(a Generic one) be held in the same site as well (with the site doubler LS in it?)
3. Artifact Unholy writ SA: a human hero in battle may be taken prisoner.
Does the SA on a hero in battle need to be fully complete before a player can use Unholy writ and
capture the hero?
3.1 Also can Unholy writ or Holy Grail like artifact special abilities be used during special initiative?
4. If a set a side card says set a hero a side for 4 turns , does this mean 4 turns of the player that played the enhancement?
4.1 If a card like Seven years of plenty (part of SA) : Place this card in your territory for 7 turns. Each upkeep
Does this mean each upkeep phase of the player who played it?
5. Question about Tartaros fortress.
It says" All demons that holder captures or discards are placed in Tartaros.
1. Does this include if one of my demon loses in battle it gets placed in my Tartaros site?
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1. The LS card (N.T only) SA: This Lost Soul may only be rescued by a N.T hero.
Does this mean it can not be rescued by the Son of god card? because it says only by a N.T hero? Not by the old SoG, the new one will negate the ability and be able to rescue it
2. If the LS (site doubler) SA: This Lost soul may be hold captive in a site currently occupied by another Lost Soul.
is already in a site , can another Lost Soul(a Generic one) be held in the same site as well (with the site doubler LS in it?) No, the site doubler's ability is what allows for doubling up
3. Artifact Unholy writ SA: a human hero in battle may be taken prisoner.
Does the SA on a hero in battle need to be fully complete before a player can use Unholy writ and
capture the hero? Yes
3.1 Also can Unholy writ or Holy Grail like artifact special abilities be used during special initiative? Not as far as I know, but it can be used before battle resolution
4. If a set a side card says set a hero a side for 4 turns , does this mean 4 turns of the player that played the enhancement? Yes
4.1 If a card like Seven years of plenty (part of SA) : Place this card in your territory for 7 turns. Each upkeep
Does this mean each upkeep phase of the player who played it? Yes
5. Question about Tartaros fortress.
It says" All demons that holder captures or discards are placed in Tartaros.
1. Does this include if one of my demon loses in battle it gets placed in my Tartaros site? IIRC, no, it has to be done with a sacrificial enhancement, like Rizpah's Sackcloth
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To expound on number 5, if your demon loses in battle that's usually a result of the opponent (unless, as Praeceps said, you use something like a "discard all cards in battle" card or something that discards your own EC like Death of Unrighteous) so your demons won't generally go to Tartaros. There are ways, though.
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1. Would Darius Decree artifact (SA: Opponents may not play good enhancements from hand unless an EC is in battle ), stop opponents from placing down enhancement cards into their storehouse or a weapon class card on a character in their territory?
2. If a hero in battle with a weapon class enhancement is returned to owner's hand does the weapon class card get discarded? or does it get returned with hero?
3. In this example would the Reach of Desperation get negated by the Disobedience card?
Purple hero is blocked by Pale Green EC (no enhancements have been played yet)
Hero plays Glittering sword (discard an O.T EC ) and targets EC
EC plays disobedience (negates sword card)
then Hero plays Reach of Desperation (interrupt the battle and draw 3 hero does not play any cards)
Since interrupt the battle momentarily suspends the ability of the last card played (which is disobedience)
when disobedience reactivates does it target glittering sword or Reach?
4. If an active artifact ( lets say holy of holies which has CBN on it) was shuffled back into owner's draw pile but was not negated by angelic advice enhancement does the effect of the artifact stay active until the end of the turn it was used?
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1. No. Putting a weapon in territory or placing an enhancement on Storehouse are not considered "playing" them. Similarly, the Heroes that let you place an enhancement on a Hero not in battle would also work as that's also not considered "playing" it. Enhancements are only "played" when their special ability is activated (which is in battle for most enhancements).
2. Weapons, like placed cards, attempt to follow their host everywhere (except when the character is captured). The weapon would return to your hand with the character barring weird circumstances like hitting the hand limit.
3. Cards don't re-target after being interrupted (with the exception of special abilities that target "all" of something) so Disobedience would still be negating Glittering Sword.
4. Continuous abilities on Artifacts that are deactivated but not negated last until the end of the phase. Instant abilities, however, cannot be activated. For example, if you shuffle but don't negate your opponent's Darius' Decree on your turn, they cannot discard it to discard Heroes in set aside but you still cannot play good enhancements until the Battle Phase.
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4. Continuous abilities on Artifacts that are deactivated but not negated last until the end of the phase. Instant abilities, however, cannot be activated. For example, if you shuffle but don't negate your opponent's Darius' Decree on your turn, they cannot discard it to discard Heroes in set aside but you still cannot play good enhancements until the Battle Phase.
But you could play your healing, set-aside, or TC enhancements once the battle is over as DD's effect only lasted through the phase, as Browarod said, and not the whole turn.
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Would it be safe to say that during a character's special Initiative they can even play the following cards to stop the SA on the card that is causing the removal?
Including.. (half of them are FBTN)
Abe's servant to Ur Foolish advice
Mask of fear The battle is the lords(warrior class only) begging for grain.
Bringing fear (philistine only) Blessings (white) Burning bush
Shimei's malicious curse Midianite attack
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yes
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1. Would the EC in this example get the first initiative because of the hero weapon class enhancement if...
Hero has 10/8 and holding a weapon class enhancement of 3/2 when starting the RA and already activated all the SA on the cards.
then is blocked by an EC with 12/12 and has no weapon class enhancement.
2. If a player A draws out LS (exchanger) and exchanges a LS with player B , could player B do the same thing and exchange it back with another players LS when it is their turn?
3. While in battle if Player A sets a side player B's hero in battle with enhancement Moses kills Egyptian: Interrupt the battle and set a side an opponent's male hero for 5 turns.
Does the hero remain set a side in either in player A or B set a side area?
4.Is Herodias considered a herod? The redemption visualizer says a Queen but not a herod? only wondering because the name has "Herod -ias" in it.
5. If Herod's dungeon site SA: while blocking with a Herod while this site is unoccupied you may capture a hero with strength 7 or greater and place it here.
and opponent RA with a hero with 8 strength and is blocked by a Herod , could that hero play any enhancement card to stop the SA on the site?
6. Does site Dragon Raid give hero access to any color site?
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1. In that scenario, since both characters are defeating each other, the Hero would have first initiative to play an enhancement since the evil character was the last car "played."
2. Yes. Anyone that controls an exchanger Soul can exchange it on their turn.
3. Cards are always set aside to their controller's set aside area (so the Hero would go to that player's set aside, not the Evil Character's).
4. Herodias has "Herod in the title" but is not in the "Herod" archetype group.
5. Unless the Hero has a pending ability to play an enhancement, such as with Angel's Sword ("If blocked by a human Evil Character, Hero may play the first enhancement."), you would be able to use Herod's Dungeon before initiative passes.
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5. Unless the Hero has a pending ability to play an enhancement, such as with Angel's Sword ("If blocked by a human Evil Character, Hero may play the first enhancement."), you would be able to use Herod's Dungeon before initiative passes.
If herod's dungeon would remove the last hero they have in battle, however, they get special initiative to interrupt herod's dungeon.
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if this might be the case with Herod's dungeon , how could the hero interrupt Herod's dungeon?
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if this might be the case with Herod's dungeon , how could the hero interrupt Herod's dungeon?
They would interrupt it with a card like Foreign Sword or Joseph before Pharaoh.
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If the Redemption Exegetical Guide says
The phrase “interrupt the battle” includes interrupting the following:
all active ongoing abilities
abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle
Could a hero also use any cards that would "interrupt the battle" Would Herod's Dungeon be considered an ongoing SA?
Like using Striking Herod or play Words of or Reach , then play a discard SA to somehow discard the blocker , so the dungeon SA will not take effect?
2. If protect is considered an ongoing ability , if an EC plays enhancement that interrupts the battle and discards a hero , could they target a hero in the opponent's Goshen fortress?
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Capture is an instant ability, so no, interrupt the battle does not interrupt Herod's dungeon.
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1.Could Destruction of Nehushtan target a curse in play?
2. if there are 5 EC in a territory with 3 crimson and 2 brown , and an opponent plays a card that says " for each evil brigade that opponent has in play" would it be 2 since there are only 2 different colors in their territory?
3. Could an enhancement that interrupts the battle and discards a hero , target a hero in a opponents Goshen fortress? since protect abilities are ongoing?
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1. Yes, in the artifact pile they are treated like arts.
2. Yes, since there are two brigades in territory.
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Nameless is correct on 1 and 2.
3. See below.
Capture is an instant ability, so no, interrupt the battle does not interrupt Herod's dungeon.
Drrek is correct that ItB cannot interrupt Herod's Dungeon, but not because capture is an instant ability. Interrupt the battle can only do what its name says, interrupt things in battle so that's why you cannot use an ItB to get around Herod's Dungeon (or Goshen for question 3.).
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Nameless is correct on 1 and 2.
3. See below.
Capture is an instant ability, so no, interrupt the battle does not interrupt Herod's dungeon.
Drrek is correct that ItB cannot interrupt Herod's Dungeon, but not because capture is an instant ability. Interrupt the battle can only do what its name says, interrupt things in battle so that's why you cannot use an ItB to get around Herod's Dungeon (or Goshen for question 3.).
Well I was more answering in response to his "is it an ongoing ability?" question, but yes that is correct, it cannot even try to interrupt it as an ongoing ability because it is not in battle.
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1. If hero is blocked by EC Egyptian horsemen SA: draw 1 or discard 1 card from opponent's draw pile , then hero plays enhancement that causes a side battle and chooses Egyptain Horsemen and another EC to fight , does the SA on E horsemen activate again?
2. If a enhancement card with a SA that says discard all cards in battle including yours (Like deceit of Sapphira) was played in a side battle , does the discard all ability also target all characters that are from the original RA or battle challenge?
3. If a hero with 3/3 is blocked by an EC with Abner's Spear SA: Holder may discard abner's spear to discard a male hero in battle with abilities of /4 or less.
Then the the EC discards it to target the hero in battle. Even though the card causing the discard (abners spear) on the hero is not in battle by the time it is discarded does the Hero still get special initiative to negate or interrupt it?
4 If hero Ethan SA: Search discard pile for a good enhancement involving music and add it to hand ( picks up magnificat from discard pile) and then plays it in battle SA : Negate SA on characters. Does the played card go back to the discard pile?
5. If a character gains a set aside ability (Like gathering of angels) then gets discarded , shuffled or returned to hand ,does the set aside gained SA stay on the hero?
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1. If hero is blocked by EC Egyptian horsemen SA: draw 1 or discard 1 card from opponent's draw pile , then hero plays enhancement that causes a side battle and chooses Egyptain Horsemen and another EC to fight , does the SA on E horsemen activate again?I believe so, yes
2. If a enhancement card with a SA that says discard all cards in battle including yours (Like deceit of Sapphira) was played in a side battle , does the discard all ability also target all characters that are from the original RA or battle challenge? Only if the ability specifies "all cards in the field of battle" otherwise it defaults to the side battle
3. If a hero with 3/3 is blocked by an EC with Abner's Spear SA: Holder may discard abner's spear to discard a male hero in battle with abilities of /4 or less.
Then the the EC discards it to target the hero in battle. Even though the card causing the discard (abners spear) on the hero is not in battle by the time it is discarded does the Hero still get special initiative to negate or interrupt it? Yes
4 If hero Ethan SA: Search discard pile for a good enhancement involving music and add it to hand ( picks up magnificat from discard pile) and then plays it in battle SA : Negate SA on characters. Does the played card go back to the discard pile? Yes, but the characters' abilities remain negated
5. If a character gains a set aside ability (Like gathering of angels) then gets discarded , shuffled or returned to hand ,does the set aside gained SA stay on the hero?
No, the character reverts to face value
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1. If hero is blocked by EC Egyptian horsemen SA: draw 1 or discard 1 card from opponent's draw pile , then hero plays enhancement that causes a side battle and chooses Egyptain Horsemen and another EC to fight , does the SA on E horsemen activate again?I believe so, yes
No. Character abilities only activate once when they are first placed in battle.
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4 If hero Ethan SA: Search discard pile for a good enhancement involving music and add it to hand ( picks up magnificat from discard pile) and then plays it in battle SA : Negate SA on characters. Does the played card go back to the discard pile? Yes, but the characters' abilities remain negated
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Following up with the question so if the Magificat card is not the field of battle the second part of the SA does not take effect? SA: if used by a N.T female or Musician set a side an EC in battle for 2 turns.
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That's correct. The reason that the character negation remains is to prevent infinite loops (Magnificat negates Ethan so it goes back to the discard pile but then Ethan is no longer being negated and gets Magnificat which negates Ethan, etc.).
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1.Even though the Promo card Authority of Christ has no verse on it (and the older one from the limited card set does have a Matthew reference on it)
Can Matthew (purple) part of SA: search discard pile for a good enhancement with a Matthew reference and place it beneath deck. still target the promo version?
2. If a player places Image of Jealousy (texp) (SA: Place on a Hero negate SA on that card) during preparation phase and places it on opponents Michael hero(SA :enhancements CBN) in a territory , when opponent's Michael enters battle , is his SA negated? and his enhancements now do not have CBN status?
3. What does the " except by a hero with matching brigade" mean?
Philetus SA: Search opponent's discard pile for a good card and remove it from the game to protect N.T Lost souls from rescue (except by a hero with matching brigade).
Does it mean if the player removes a red brigade hero from opponents discard pile and the rescuing hero is red brigade the N.T Lost Souls are not protected from rescue?
4. Would a hero and EC in battle return to territory if they both are able to defeat each other by the numbers and have First Strike and can not play anymore enhancements or move the battle away from mutual destruction state?
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1. No. It is a NT enhancement, but it has no verse. Unless one is printed on the card, there is no verse book (this is the case with promos most of the time).
2. No. Anything that is CBN is CBN, period. It cannot be negated, no matter what. Same is true for abilities that grant CB- status to other cards, those abilities are always CBN. So in this case, Michael is CBN, and his enhancements are CBN, and it was silly to place on him :)
3. It means they are protected from rescue by any hero without a matching brigade to the removed card, yes, so your example is essentially correct.
4. No. First strike only means you don't get discarded in otherwise normal mutual destruction, but in this case, since they both have it, they would both be discarded if each strength is greater than the other's toughness. Initiative will pass as normal for playing cards, and in resolution they would both be discarded if the numbers situation stays the same.
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4. No. First strike only means you don't get discarded in otherwise normal mutual destruction, but in this case, since they both have it, they would both be discarded if each strength is greater than the other's toughness. Initiative will pass as normal for playing cards, and in resolution they would both be discarded if the numbers situation stays the same.
I don't think this is correct. In cases of mutual first strike, whichever character had first strike first takes precedence and would survive while the other character is discarded as normal.
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1. If I put Moses (negate all characters and enhancements) in the field of Battle does the SA only affect the characters and enhancements in battle
or does it negate all "While in play" SA on Heroes and EC SA in players territories and territory class enhancements that remain in play?
Like Death and Hades , Simon the Zealot , Aaron , Lifting the Curse, Large tree , set aside etc?
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I believe he would negate all of those (since he doesn't specify "in battle"). Note, though, that for Large Tree it wouldn't undo the increases that the King has received (those are CBN since they are instant abilities that completed in a previous phase), just the cannot be ignored portion.
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I believe he would negate all of those (since he doesn't specify "in battle"). Note, though, that for Large Tree it wouldn't undo the increases that the King has received (those are CBN since they are instant abilities that completed in a previous phase), just the cannot be ignored portion.
The RTC says that abilities gained from set aside cannot be negated. I'm not saying which one is wrong, I'm just wondering which one is right.
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That is correct, but none of the cards listed in RC777's question were set aside cards so I'm not sure how it's relevant, lol. Moses cannot and would not negate gained abilities.
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That is correct, but none of the cards listed in RC777's question were set aside cards so I'm not sure how it's relevant, lol. Moses cannot and would not negate gained abilities.
It was the last item in his list before the etc and after his specific examples. Easy enough to miss.
Like Death and Hades , Simon the Zealot , Aaron , Lifting the Curse, Large tree , set aside etc?
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Ah, then you are correct, my mistake. :)
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1.So on the large tree would the " search deck for a site" part of it also be negated by Moses? Would it be negated for the rest of the game or just the current players turn or phase it is played?
2. Would Simon the Zealot have to re enter battle again to activate while in play ability if it was negated by Moses? or is it only negated that certain phase or turn Moses was put in battle?
3. If Lifting the Curse SA: place in territory at anytime you may discard this... was negated in a territory by Moses , does the SA on it come back by next turn?
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1. If your opponent plays Large Tree in the battle, yes it would be negated.
2. You he would have to be reactivated.
3. Moses does not negate enhancements out of battle. If it was played in the battle in would not even be placed.
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I believe he would negate all of those (since he doesn't specify "in battle"). Note, though, that for Large Tree it wouldn't undo the increases that the King has received (those are CBN since they are instant abilities that completed in a previous phase), just the cannot be ignored portion.
1.So on the large tree would the " search deck for a site" part of it also be negated by Moses? (if the large tree was placed on EC in a territory) Would it be negated for the rest of the game or just the current players turn or phase it is played?
2. Would Simon the Zealot have to re enter battle again to activate while in play ability if it was negated by Moses? or is it only negated that certain phase or turn Moses was put in battle?
3. If Lifting the Curse in a territory SA: place in territory at anytime you may discard this... was negated in a territory by Moses , does the SA on it come back by next turn?
4. So it is true that characters that FBTN in battle can negate enhancements not in the field of battle I guess? like Juda's plot , lifting the Curse , Large tree etc enhancements that are placed in a territory?
5. if a card is exchanged in a draw pile , the draw pile is always shuffled?
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Some corrections to other answers:
4. No. First strike only means you don't get discarded in otherwise normal mutual destruction, but in this case, since they both have it, they would both be discarded if each strength is greater than the other's toughness. Initiative will pass as normal for playing cards, and in resolution they would both be discarded if the numbers situation stays the same.
I don't think this is correct. In cases of mutual first strike, whichever character had first strike first takes precedence and would survive while the other character is discarded as normal.
It is correct, both characters can have first strike, there is no "first" first strike. First strike only comes into play where there is mutual destruction and one side has first strike where the other doesn't; in that case, the first striker survives (or passes initiative, depending on the stage of battle).
1. If I put Moses (negate all characters and enhancements) in the field of Battle does the SA only affect the characters and enhancements in battle
or does it negate all "While in play" SA on Heroes and EC SA in players territories and territory class enhancements that remain in play?
Like Death and Hades , Simon the Zealot , Aaron , Lifting the Curse, Large tree , set aside etc?
I believe he would negate all of those (since he doesn't specify "in battle"). Note, though, that for Large Tree it wouldn't undo the increases that the King has received (those are CBN since they are instant abilities that completed in a previous phase), just the cannot be ignored portion.
It does not negate some of those cards, if they were activated and completed in a previous phase. For example, a triggered Simon the Zealot that activated in a previous battle and wasn't negated in that phase is CBN starting in the following phase, so Moses would not negate one in territory.
3. Moses does not negate enhancements out of battle. If it was played in the battle in would not even be placed.
His ability (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Moses_(G)) is not restricted to battle, and I don't remember an errata (though it is possible). If there hasn't been a change posted for his ability (or FBTN in general), then he defaults to play. As above, he cannot negate anything that completed in a previous phase (like searching for a site if done in a previous phase or the placing an enhancement), but it can negate anything not completed (like the rest of Lifting the Curse).
On your new questions:
1. See above, it depends if it completed in a previous phase.
2. Ff he ever leaves play, he must be reactivated. If he reenters battle, he reactivates (and can be negated then and not have the ability continue). However, if he completed in a previous phase, the ability is CBN. It remains active while he is in play, see above, Moses does not negate him in territory.
3. See above. The placing is CBN if it completed in a previous phase. The rest is negated until after the battle phase, then it is no longer negated.
4. They can be negated, but the place ability being completed in a previous phase is CBN.
5. By default, all search and exchange abilities shuffle the deck.
It may be easier to make different threads with similar questions in them when you have questions. It is a bit hard to follow this now-6-pager, and it has a lot of topics in it ;)
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I thought only instant abilities completed in previous phases were CBN , not ongoing abilities? For example, I thought it had been ruled that placed cards with ongoing abilities cannot be unplaced (because it's CBN) but CAN have their ongoing effect negated (like by FBTN characters).
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I thought only instant abilities completed in previous phases were CBN , not ongoing abilities? For example, I thought it had been ruled that placed cards with ongoing abilities cannot be unplaced (because it's CBN) but CAN have their ongoing effect negated (like by FBTN characters).
It depends on the card type. Ongoing abilities like on artifacts, sites, souls, placed enhancements, and fortresses are constantly reactivating due to the nature of the cards. Characters only activate when entering battle, and have most of the examples of abilities that have this rule apply. Characters with "While in play" like Simon the Zealot completed in a previous phase, and are CBN. Abilities like that on cards that continually reactivate (like on artifacts) can be negated because they never 'completed' in a previous phase, due to their abilities reactivating.
So yes, instant abilities (like place) have this rule apply. So too do cards that only activate once (or at specific times) and have "While in play".
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Okay, I can see where you're coming from. I forgot that character "while in play" abilities don't constantly reactivate like other ongoing abilities so it makes sense that they would be CBN.
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Okay, I can see where you're coming from. I forgot that character "while in play" abilities don't constantly reactivate like other ongoing abilities so it makes sense that they would be CBN.
It's one of those oddball rules, to be sure ;)